H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash  
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All Forums >> TEAM RCU >> TEAM RCU - Mike McConville >> H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash
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H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/10/2005 10:46:22 PM   
lockjaw-express


 

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Dear. Mr McConville,

I am VERY disapointed with the Hanger 9 Extra 260. Your recommended low rate control throws are way too much! The plane kept snapping at low rates and with the weight of the DA 50. I and other top flyer's at my club also agree that for the wing loading, advertised low rates are way to high. I was only trying to rim out the model, but because of the control throws, it became uncontrollable.

This was my maiden flight for both my NEW Extra 260 w/ DA50 and my NEW H9 33% Edge 540 (BME 110). After the crash of the 260, I reduced the low rates that you recommend by more that half on my Edge 540!!! The Edge 540 at a much lower rates flew perfect, however the wing loading is much lower than the Extra 260.

I also have the QQ Yak 54 72" model with a YS 140DZ and it flys correctly for its weight. The Extra 260 is only 2 to 3% larger, but weighs much more than the YAK.

I completely destroyed my BRAND NEW DA 50, ruined 3 JR (8417, 8231, and 8411) Digital servos, and I think that Horizon should correct the manual, warn customers of the high wing loading, and the severe wing snapping of the plane. In addition, I would like for you to have Horizon call me to let me know what can be done to help me out.

Best Regards, Mark

Cincinnati, Ohio



< Message edited by lockjaw-express -- 7/11/2005 4:14:00 AM >
       Post #: 1

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/11/2005 2:32:53 PM   
MMcConville


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 6/26/2003
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Mark,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the 260. Its very unusual.

However, I stand by the recommended control throws in the manual. Of course, the amount of elevator throw needed in any model is a function of the balance point. If you are more tail heavy, less elevator is needed and vice versa.
Where did you have your 260 balanced?

m

_____________________________

Mike McConville
Horizon Hobby

(in reply to lockjaw-express)
       Post #: 2

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/11/2005 11:12:08 PM   
JRNUT


 

Posts: 41
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Mattoon, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Mark,

Sorry for your loss but I have to agree with Mike. I flew my 260 w/DA50 last week with the recommended throws and it flies great. Probably the best flying small plane that I've ever had.

Milt

_____________________________

Special Thanks to, Kwik Fix adhesives,
Mike McConville, Mike Hilderbrandt, Jeff Williams

(in reply to lockjaw-express)
       Post #: 3

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 12:02:55 AM   
BRYAN01601



Posts: 560
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: berlin, CT, USA
Status: offline 		not my place to talk here

< Message edited by BRYAN01601 -- 7/13/2005 3:25:43 AM >

(in reply to lockjaw-express)
       Post #: 4

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 2:24:06 AM   
lockjaw-express


 

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Bryan01601,

First off, my message was to Mr. McConville!

Second: I was not ranting and raving.

Third: I am glad you have so much experience flying planes, and know how to set them up correctly.

Fourth: This Message board belongs to Mr. McConville, and since he represents Horizon Hobbies, this is the forum that makes sense. In addition, the message is not a "flame", but constructive criticism, and I think that the initial (lowrate) throws are 2x too much.

Fifth: My CG is at the forward position of the recommended balance point.

Sixth: I have been flying RC since 1974, and have flown many aerobatic planes including the 80's vintage BVM DF Jets, so I am not a beginner.

Anyway, I own many 3D planes and I am very disapointed with this plane. My personal opinion is that the plane is very heavy, and has high wing loading with the DA 50.

I sent back my DA 50 this morning, and also ordered a new one. In fact, I talked to Horizon, and they want the plane sent back. It is on its way to them.

Also, I own many H9 Planes, and I am very happy with them, but the 260 is one that I think has a problem, or maybe the CG needs to be moved forward, and then documented in the manual.

Mark


(in reply to BRYAN01601)
       Post #: 5

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 2:37:30 AM   
EXTRA ADDICT


 

Posts: 744
Joined: 8/7/2004
From: huddleston, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Well My 260 had a serious snap problem and it ended up being the plane itself. I was flying mine with an OS 160 at just over 12 pounds so it wasn't wing loading. It would snap terribly at 3/4 inch of elevator throw. I never found out what the problem was because Horizon never told me they just sent me a new plane. This one doesn't even think about snapping low or high rates. I am pretty sure it was twist in the wings causing my problem. I am just curious if you checked your wings with an icedense meter or not because it sounds like your plane had the same problem mine did. What did your plane weigh with the DA-50?

(in reply to lockjaw-express)
       Post #: 6

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 3:10:37 AM   
lockjaw-express


 

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Extra Addict,

I weighed the following:

DA50
Ignition System
1500ma Futaba 4.8v Pack
Slimline Pitts Muffler
Choke Servo (Futaba 9602)

Total: Approx. 5lbs + Plane

I never weighed the plane, but I cold not keep it from snapping. It always wanted to snap off to the left.

I lowered the throttle to 1/2, and tried to trim, but it snapped and I could not recover. I never tried to check the incidence.

When I finally flew my new H9 Edge 540 33% w/ BME 110, I lowered the "low rates" to 1/2 of recommended. The plane flew great, and when I went to "center rate" (Recommended low rate), it would snap, but I was able to easily recover.

I think the perfect match for the 260 would be the YS 160DZ. I have the 140DZ in my QQ Yak, and it is a real powerhouse of an engine.

Thank you for the help.

BR, Mark

(in reply to EXTRA ADDICT)
       Post #: 7

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 4:07:39 AM   
BRYAN01601



Posts: 560
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: berlin, CT, USA
Status: offline 		not my place to talk here

Life too short be happy!!!

< Message edited by BRYAN01601 -- 7/13/2005 3:26:09 AM >

(in reply to lockjaw-express)
       Post #: 8

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 4:24:57 AM   
lockjaw-express


 

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Bryan,

Where in my post did I "flame" your ability? However you insinuated I did not know what I have stated.

Your Prozak comment is not very helpful, and your posts do not help my situation at all.

Mark

(in reply to BRYAN01601)
       Post #: 9

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 5:06:33 AM   
BRYAN01601



Posts: 560
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: berlin, CT, USA
Status: offline 		not my place to talk here

< Message edited by BRYAN01601 -- 7/13/2005 3:26:33 AM >

(in reply to lockjaw-express)
       Post #: 10

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 3:04:27 PM   
MMcConville


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 6/26/2003
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Thought I'd response to the original person that posted. The recommended elevetor throw on low rate is 10 degrees up and 12 down, which are from my airplane. To be honest, I fly my airplanes less sensative than most people. My object in setting up any airplane is to make iit as easy to fly as possible. If the CG on your model is correct, that should not be a lot of elevator. Can you tell me where the CG was located realtive the the LE of the wing either at the tip or root rib.
I suspect that either the CG was set rather tail heavy, or there wassomething else wrong. Perhaps a very extreme amount of expo that have you essentially all of the travel in one small area of the stick travel? 10 degrees elevator isnt much, in fact its less than I run on my 40% 260 on low rate.


BTW, just to clerify the purpose of my forum here on RCU. I'm not on-line to represent Horizon's Product Support department. I'm happy to share my knowlege and ideas about Horizon products, as well any any other product out there, but I'm not here to do anything further. My hope is that I can sahre my experience and knowlege to help out anyone interested with anything RC related that I can.
The only reason I have Horizon Hobby included in my signature is so people who dont know me will know that I may be a source of info for Horizon products. I dont want to be a substitute for out PS team.
Horizon has a great Product Support staff and I dont want to try to do their job for them. Their better at it, and its not my purpose. Just to be clear.

Thanks guys!

< Message edited by MMcConville -- 7/12/2005 3:29:25 PM >

_____________________________

Mike McConville
Horizon Hobby

(in reply to BRYAN01601)
       Post #: 11

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 3:34:12 PM   
MMcConville


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 6/26/2003
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		BTW Mark, I believe that I saw that you are from Cincy. If you'd like to come over sometime I'd be happy to help you set-up your Edge. If you are flying it at 1/2 the recommended low rate elevator then it is quite tailheavy or something else is off. I gurantee I can get it flying a lot better for you. Its about a 5 hour drive from Cincy (my hometown) to Monticello.

_____________________________

Mike McConville
Horizon Hobby

(in reply to MMcConville)
       Post #: 12

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 3:34:24 PM   
lockjaw-express


 

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Mr McConville,

I set the CG at 4 7/8" from the leading edge of the wing, next to the fuse, as was stated in the manual. I have my expo set at -70%, as I do all of my 3D planes.

One thing that I noticed is that the faster I flew it the more it wanted to bank left (hard), when I slowed it down to 1/2 to 5/8 throttle it was snapping off to the left, and when I tried to increase the throttle it kept snapping.

When I flew my Edge 540 later that morning (fist time), it reacted and flew perfect!!!!! BTW, I did not have to touch the trims, even though there is a twist in the right horizontal stab, but HH will send me a new one. I did decrease the low rates in half.

I am at a complete loss, but I believe that there is somting wrong with the plane.

BR, Mark

(in reply to MMcConville)
       Post #: 13

RE: H9 Extra 260 w/DA 50 Snapping/Crash - 7/12/2005 3:38:23 PM   
lockjaw-express


 

Posts: 157
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Dear Mr. McConville,

Thank you for your generous offer!!!

I belong to the MVRCC club near Kings Island, and any time you are this way, I would like to meet with you, but to make a long trip is asking too much.

Again, if you are out this way on other business/fun, let me know.

BR, Mark

(in reply to lockjaw-express)