Is POWERMASTER cheating?

Is POWERMASTER cheating?
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Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 4:40:43 PM

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From: Cottage Grove, WI, USA
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I recently purchased 2 cases (12 gal.) of PM 15/18 and sold one to a friend who poured it into a plastic COOLPOWER plastic jug on his field box. He commented that it looked to be short. I checked my remaining 8 gallons of PM and each one was 120-122 oz. or 6-8 oz. short. I checked with another friend who had purchased PM 15/18 from another LHS and it was also 8 oz. short.

Is this POWERMASTER'S way of increasing profits without raising prices? Better check what's inside those metal cans to see if you're getting what you're paying for! I like their fuel, but what's fair is fair!

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 4:46:52 PM

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Have you tried calling PM and asking? It could just be a mistake in packaging.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 7:18:51 PM

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I buy Sig fuel in plastic jugs and they are mostly pretty full.

Jim

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 7:43:42 PM

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I've run powermaster for years and I've never experienced such an issue.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 11:07:48 AM

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Your findings seem to be the same as mine. I bought 6 gallons of PM 20/20 recently at my LHS when the new shipment came in. I started to mix some castor (3 oz) to each gallon for some added protection. Everthing gets shaken up real well in the metal can and then I transfer the mix to a 1 gallon plastic Wildcat bottle for transport. I too have noticed that the level is lower in the plastic gallon bottle than it was with either Wildcat or Cool Power and that's after adding the 3 oz of castor. What bothers me the most about this is I know what the ratio is for adding the castor to a full gallon equates to. If the PM was 6-8 oz short to begin with the amount of castor is now too high. Not being a chemist and having accurate measuring equipment, who really knows for sure? That's the problem with the metal can as you can not see the level in it. If you could and it looked short no one would buy it.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 11:31:45 AM

Hobbsy

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Did you weigh it before and after adding the castor or are you just guessing?

< Message edited by hobbsy -- 7/16/2005 11:58:38 AM >

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 2:50:26 PM

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Hobbsy,
To answer your question in all fairness no. I assumed that the sealed can was full, so I just added the 3 oz of castor per Bill Robison's suggestion. When I transferred the fuel from the metal can to the empty Wildcat plastic jug I use for transport the jug was noticeably low. By that I mean the fresh unopened gallon of 15% Wildcat Super Premium for my two strokes was about 1 1/2" higher. Now that is after I added the 3 oz of oil mind you. I would not imply that anything is being done by Powermaster that is not on the up and up. It is fine fuel and I will continue to use it for my Saito and YS engines. Just posting my observations when I saw this thread. It could be something as simple as the automatic filler is coming up short. My LHS carries Coolpower, Omega, Wildcat and Powermaster. so we are fortunate to have that many choices. The other brands come in visible containers, so there is no guesswork what you see is what you get and buy. I still have 5 sealed cans, so we'll see what the next one looks like as they are all from the same batch number.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 2:58:57 PM

TimC

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The answer could be as simple as the sides of the Wlidcat jug bulging out over time, allowing it to hold more than a gallon.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 4:01:46 PM

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Anything is posssible, although the jug I use is fairly new and all of my fuel is kept inside unless I'm at the field. I just checked one of the PM cans and the volume is listed a one gallon, 3785ml. I have a friend who is a forensic chemist and I'll check with him to see if he can measure one of these cans to find out. I am sure that he can, but when he can do it is another issue. Maybe another unexpained mystery will get solved.

.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/18/2005 4:01:48 AM

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Has anyone taken the time to actually measure the contents of a fresh can of PM, or are we just making assumptions?

Keep in mind that the fuel MFR has to allow for product expansion, so perhaps this is why your fuel can doesn't appear full?

Not for nothing, but PM fuel is about as good as it gets, and they offer a top notch fuel to satisfy the needs of nearly any type of motor out there. Heck....I'd choose a quart of POWERMASTER fuel over a 55 gallon drum of some of the other stuff out there...

'Race

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/18/2005 5:00:24 PM

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Update- I went to a LHS other than the one where I bought my original 2 cases of POWERMASTER 15/18 and purchased a can of PM 15/18 with a different lot #. At home I very carefully measured the contents - 119 oz. - or 9 oz. short!!! As I stated before, I really like PM fuel and am not accusing them of any intentional wrong-doing, but this is more than a minor discrepancy and should be addressed immediately. I hope that more of you will take the time to check to see if you're getting what you paid for. In my case, I was shorted almost a gallon on fuel on the purchase of 13 gallons!!!

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/18/2005 6:02:40 PM

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I agree with what you are saying although in all fairness I have not scientifically measured the first gallon of the six that I purchased. There is a significant visual difference between the gallon of PM that I transferred to the empty Wildcat jug and the gallon of Wildcat 15% that I have not touched yet. That being said, I added 3 fluid oz of castor oil to that gallon of PM before the transfer. Visually the gallon of PM is down 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" lower in the jug than the untouched Wildcat jug. Before I stumbled upon this post, I did read in another forum somewhere that a member had experienced the same problem. That is why I paid more attention when I did this transfer. I have been advised to contact PM directly and that they will correct the problem, I am just not sure that I want to deal with packing and shipping containers back to receive replacement cans. This IMHO, could all be cured by getting rid of the metal cans. When gallons are sitting on the shelf of the LHS you can see the level in the jug and what you are buying. At the grocery store would your wife buy the full gallon of milk or the one that is 3/4 full? Besides that my fuel pump cap would then fit as it will not on the metal can. That is why I have to transfer to a plastic Wildcat jug. I think that this is great fuel, but I also agree that one should get what one pays for. Please advise us if you find any answers and/or resolutions as it sounds like you did take the time to do the measurements. This is starting to sound maybe commonplace as your measurements were from different batches and locations. Next question is, why should we as the consumer and bill payer have to do all of this?

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/19/2005 2:40:50 PM

I3DFU

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Oh my...........I was 1.5 oz short on the last 18 gallons of fuel which equates to almost one quart......but I bet I spilled more than that on the ground when filling my planes.

But ever since I started burning Cooper's fuel Ive noticed that Im getting an extra 3oz per gallon and no longer spill fuel on the ground. As a matter of fact every time I come back to my flight box theres more fuel in it than I left.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/19/2005 5:03:23 PM

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This post piqued my curiosity as I am a fan of Powermaster but have wondered why they use metal cans when everyone else uses plastic jugs. I measured the contents of a new PM can - 118 oz. - 10 oz. short. I called my hobby shop who said they would call PM.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/19/2005 11:39:10 PM

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This is getting more interesting by the day. If anyone gets any resolution on this matter, please post the results. Seems as though two members now have taken measurements and have come up short on the amount of the product that was paid for

. Anyone else, or comments from anyone at Powermaster?

< Message edited by olstoney -- 7/20/2005 1:22:34 AM >

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/20/2005 4:28:30 PM

Ute

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I stopped buying Powermaster last year after transferring fuel to a plastic Byron's jug and it came up about 1 1/2" short when compared to a full Byron's jug. I like to see what I'm getting.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/21/2005 8:01:55 PM

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I do not wish to take sides in this discussion and I have no support for the opinions regarding the reported short changing in fuel cans by PowerMaster. The only thing I would like to do is to repeat what has been stated at least once on this topic--please bring this to the attention of PowerMaster and give them a chance to respond. Things can happen in any operation and if there are not sufficient quality control checks in place, the mistakes can continue to happen until such time they are brought to the manufacturer's attention and the manufacturer can then take measures to correct the problem. The vast majority of manufacturers try their hardest to provide quality products and a good value. Most value their customers and it is their goal to please those customers. I do not believe many manufacturerd set out to cheat their customers. If they do, then they are soon out of business. If this is what has happened, then the problem will take care of the fuel maker in question.

I can assure you, if this type situation happened with Byron Fuels, we would be very grateful to have the problem brought to our attention as soon as possible so we could correct it. If you practice this courtesy, you will soon find whether or not the manufacturer truly cares about their customers or if they try to dodge the complaint. We all have to work together in this hobby to make sure we have the best products available.

Marc Jensen
Marketing Manager
Byron Originals, Inc.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/21/2005 10:01:12 PM

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I agree, check with them. I have a can and have not opened it yet but I was curious and thought I would let them know what was being discussed because I work in a position where things can go down hill fast without me knowing what happened and it comes back on me...I give no excusses, things happen, I just fix it.
Anyway, here is their prompt reply (took only 30 minutes). In their favor, please don't call them unless you have an accurate way of measuring and have legitimately investigated this claim:

Tim,

I was contacted by RCU regarding a post that was made regarding fuel
level. Since all of our machinery is automated, I instructed the
moderator to have anyone that felt they received fuel that was off
calibration to call me directly. I have yet to receive a call. If a
customer has a problem or suspects there is a problem, they should call
Powermaster direct 1-800-847-9086 ext 2# to get it resolved. Thank you
for your input.

Laura Sorenson

< Message edited by rangerman -- 7/21/2005 10:04:56 PM >

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