RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating?  
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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/8/2005 12:43:52 PM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2768
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Robert,

Honest discussion is what makes these Forums interesting. However the title of this thread and the first post was somewhat accusatory. A phone call at that point would have been the smart thing to do. Instead of the speculation that followed we would have had an explanation.

How many people actually did what I did and made the call? Had they made the free phone call they might have got their money back, like I did! In fact I made a profit on the deal. My can was only 9.6ozs short. I am getting a refund on the whole gallon!

Ed S

(in reply to rcamp)
       Post #: 26

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/8/2005 6:25:08 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Ed,
I think Robert has some valid points, but I also agree that perhaps the title of the thread could have been worded differently. In all fairess none of us were involved in that. I will call tomorrow and speak with Laura. I am in a little bit of a different situation as I do not have measuring equipment. I also bought 7 gallons, six are still sealed and the 7th is the one you see in the photograph. All 7 are from the same batch number and assuming that your figures would hold true in my case that would be 67.2 ounces. I would really just want the fuel, my YS engines are hungry .

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If One Lays Down With Dogs-They Should Not Complain About The Fleas

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       Post #: 27

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/8/2005 10:13:09 PM   
Volfy



Posts: 3227
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Somehow I doubt a single person from Canada calling to complain is going to get the same level of attention as a juicy Online Forum Exposé.

That said, I really hate to see a brand name getting dragged through the mud on the Internet every time somebody carries a grudge - justified or not. This one, however, seems systemic enough to be a genuine problem as folks from Canada down to FL are having the same problem. I wonder how long this "batch" has been like this? I can't imagine PM doesn't use some kind of automatic measurement or filling procedure. Do they eyeball the filling of every can?

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(in reply to rcamp)
       Post #: 28

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/8/2005 10:59:13 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Volfy.
As explained by Ed after speaking with them they use automated filling equipment. Anything could happen and this could very well be a just discovered and I am hopefully sure an unintentional error. I will know tomorrow after I call and see what the take is on 7 gallons without having accurate measuring equipment. You can see from my photos what the visual difference is after I added 3 ounces of castor to the fresh gallon can. After shaking the mixture I then transferred to the Wildcat plastic gallon container. Unless you are Superman, wouldn't know how you could eyeball the level through a metal can .

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If One Lays Down With Dogs-They Should Not Complain About The Fleas

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       Post #: 29

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/9/2005 12:56:07 AM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2768
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Olstoney,

They may be more available here than in the US because we are supposed to be using the metric system. From Walmart I purchased a 1 litre plastic bottle graduated in millilitres on the side. You could probably get one with fluid ozs marked on the side.

I will be making another bulk purchase in two weeks time. You can rest assured I will measure these.

Ed S

(in reply to olstoney)
       Post #: 30

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/9/2005 6:09:48 PM   
Mr3Putt


 

Posts: 44
Joined: 9/30/2002
From: Cottage Grove, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Glad to see that I've been vindicated and special thanks to Olstoney for posting the comparison photos. As to how I've dealt with this problem, I went back to the LHS that sold me the PM fuel and presented my findings. The store owner, a very reputable man who I've bought from for over 20 years, without hesitation insisted that I take a FREE gallon of fuel to make up for the POWERMASTER shortage. Furthermore, he discounted his remaining stock of PM fuel so as to not short future customers. Needless to say, he will continue to get most of my business along with great word of mouth advertising.
And to POWERMASTER(Laura) if you're reading this, I think that you have a great product and salute you for taking action to make things right. I am whole but my LHS is the one who took the hit (and heat!). If you'd like to square things with him, send me a PM for the store's name and number.
Final thought: I will continue to buy POWERMASTER fuel if my LHS continues to carry it.

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 31

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/10/2005 2:27:23 AM   
I_FLY_CL


 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/23/2003
From: Salem, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Power Master 15% 18% oil

Gallon #1 short 7.3846 oz.
#2 short 7.3842 oz.
#3 short 8.5384 oz.
#4 short 12.00 oz.
#5 short 6.4615 oz.
#6 short 6.4615 oz.

Gallon # 4 was measured by volume and with those results the other 5 gallons were calculated by weight.

Power Master has assured me that they have fixed the problem and it was not their intension to short their customers.
Call Power Master with your questions.

< Message edited by I_FLY_CL -- 8/24/2005 8:08:20 PM >

(in reply to Mr3Putt)
       Post #: 32

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/10/2005 5:10:22 PM   
MustangFan



Posts: 586
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Canton, MI, USA
Status: offline 		A person might ask why PowerMaster didn't discover this problem themselves during "Quality Checking" ... which should check quantity.

Glad they are responding ... they have a good product !

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(in reply to I_FLY_CL)
       Post #: 33

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/10/2005 9:29:53 PM   
Nitro10


 

Posts: 109
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Littlerock, AR, USA
Status: offline 		Thats a dang shame! Such a good fuel! You can sugar coat the issue any way you like but people pay for a gallon and they are not getting it...hence customers are getting cheated. Its PM's job to make sure they are pumping the correct amount. If you payed $2.40 for a gallon of gas and got .95 gallons you would yell cheat....so why not for a gallon of 15-20$ fuel?

(in reply to MustangFan)
       Post #: 34

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/10/2005 10:37:39 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I called Powermaster this afternoon at 4:10pm. They were closed for the day (7:30am-4pm). I left a message on Laura's voice mail and will let you all know the outcome after i speak with her.

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If One Lays Down With Dogs-They Should Not Complain About The Fleas

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       Post #: 35

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/10/2005 11:56:56 PM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2768
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I am glad to hear that others are calling Powermaster. As somebody said earlier, one call from Canada probably will not do much. This may not be over yet. I have just checked three other sealed gallons that I purchased recently, all were short, one as much as 11 fluid ozs. I accept that these could have got "Loose" before the problem was discovered/pointed out.

Ed S

< Message edited by Ed Smith -- 8/10/2005 11:59:15 PM >

(in reply to olstoney)
       Post #: 36

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/11/2005 12:10:31 AM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Ed,
I'm sorry to hear that, but this is getting hard to believe. There has to have been a real problem with QC on the filling stations as I can not fathom that this was intentional. My batch number was 3840 and I still have six sealed gallon cans. The question really is how long did this go undetected and how many "short" gallon cans are really out there?

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If One Lays Down With Dogs-They Should Not Complain About The Fleas

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 37

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/11/2005 3:36:30 AM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2768
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Olstoney,

I have to admit I am beginning to lose faith.

I spent an hour or so gathering some facts and figures. These may help to make it easier to check.

The fuel I use is 15% nitro, 18% total oil.

I weighed a few empty cans, they were all within an ounce of each other at about 14 ozs.

I accurately measured a full gallon by volume. With the can it weighs 8lb 1.2ozs. A second weighed 8lb 0.6ozs. That is close enough for me.

1oz weight of fuel is 1.12 fluid ozs. So for every ounce weight less than say 8lb multiply that figure by 1.12 and the result will be the fluid oz. shortage.

My worst example, a sealed can, weighed 7lb. 6.6ozs. That is 9.4oz wt short x 1.12 = 10.52 fluid ozs. That is unacceptable.

As I said before these may have been shipped before the problem was known about. I intend to purchase some more in a weeks time. I will measure this shipment. I will not let this go.

Ed S

(in reply to olstoney)
       Post #: 38

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/11/2005 5:29:20 PM   
Ute


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/20/2005
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Status: offline 		WOW!!! For the sponsor of this forum to get caught up in a mess like this is truly amazing and embarassing. I think we need to thank Mr3Putt for bringing this to light and a public apology from POWERMASTER is in order.

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 39

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/11/2005 8:58:19 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2718
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Just a side comment. If Powermaster was using plastic jugs, this problem would have been immediately apparent, and immediately corrected.

(in reply to Ute)
       Post #: 40

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 8/11/2005 9:51:38 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		O.K. Guys,
I received a call back from Laura at Powermaster just after 3:00pm EDT, she spent every bit of a half an hour on the phone with me. Yes, there was a problem with the automated filling equipment that went undetected through several batches of fuel. The quality of the fuel was never compromised only the amount dispensed. In some cases gallon cans were underfilled, but some cases gallon cans were overfilled as well. Powermaster does know the batch numbers involved. Of course no one would complain if the can was overfilled or start a thread about that, now would they?

Laura assured me that once brought to the attention of Powermaster, the automated filling equipment was re-calibrated and re-tested. Additional safeguards have also been instituted including measuring every gallon dispensed by an employee with a graduated dipstick before the can is sealed. Laura assured me that Powermaster is committed to providing a quality product and first class customer service. I was assured that this type of problem will not happen in the future.

I did not request any refund or compensation, only that I receive enough fuel to compensate for the shortages that I may encounter out of the remaining six gallons that I purchased. Laura offered to ship substantially more fuel than what I could have been shorted in the morning. I offered to pay for the difference in the quantity that is being shipped, Laura refused to accept any payment. I will be contacted via e-mail tomorrow with the UPS tracking number, Laura told me to expect the delivery on Monday.

I am convinced at this point that this incident was indeed unfortunate. Powermaster will stand behind their products. If you had a problem please call Laura and she will take care of it. That being said, if you did not have a problem then IMHO you probably have no right to an opinion. I had a problem, I placed a phone call, I spoke with the manufacturer and the issue is being resolved to my satisfaction and more than what should be required. We all praise good customer service and recommend to others companies that give that to us. If my fuel arrives on Monday or Tuesday then I have nothing more to say about Powermaster other than thank you for the great customer service and for taking care of me .

< Message edited by olstoney -- 8/11/2005 9:55:27 PM >

_____________________________

If One Lays Down With Dogs-They Should Not Complain About The Fleas

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)