Is POWERMASTER cheating?  
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Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 4:40:43 PM   
Mr3Putt


 

Posts: 44
Joined: 9/30/2002
From: Cottage Grove, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I recently purchased 2 cases (12 gal.) of PM 15/18 and sold one to a friend who poured it into a plastic COOLPOWER plastic jug on his field box. He commented that it looked to be short. I checked my remaining 8 gallons of PM and each one was 120-122 oz. or 6-8 oz. short. I checked with another friend who had purchased PM 15/18 from another LHS and it was also 8 oz. short.

Is this POWERMASTER'S way of increasing profits without raising prices? Better check what's inside those metal cans to see if you're getting what you're paying for! I like their fuel, but what's fair is fair!
       Post #: 1

RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 4:46:52 PM   
Bayou Talker



Posts: 296
Joined: 8/9/2004
From: Bridgeport, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Have you tried calling PM and asking? It could just be a mistake in packaging.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 7:18:51 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2718
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I buy Sig fuel in plastic jugs and they are mostly pretty full.

Jim

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/11/2005 7:43:42 PM   
i8tweety



Posts: 3415
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: Northridge, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I've run powermaster for years and I've never experienced such an issue.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 11:07:48 AM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Your findings seem to be the same as mine. I bought 6 gallons of PM 20/20 recently at my LHS when the new shipment came in. I started to mix some castor (3 oz) to each gallon for some added protection. Everthing gets shaken up real well in the metal can and then I transfer the mix to a 1 gallon plastic Wildcat bottle for transport. I too have noticed that the level is lower in the plastic gallon bottle than it was with either Wildcat or Cool Power and that's after adding the 3 oz of castor. What bothers me the most about this is I know what the ratio is for adding the castor to a full gallon equates to. If the PM was 6-8 oz short to begin with the amount of castor is now too high. Not being a chemist and having accurate measuring equipment, who really knows for sure? That's the problem with the metal can as you can not see the level in it. If you could and it looked short no one would buy it.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 11:31:45 AM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10129
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Did you weigh it before and after adding the castor or are you just guessing?

< Message edited by hobbsy -- 7/16/2005 11:58:38 AM >

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 2:50:26 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hobbsy,
To answer your question in all fairness no. I assumed that the sealed can was full, so I just added the 3 oz of castor per Bill Robison's suggestion. When I transferred the fuel from the metal can to the empty Wildcat plastic jug I use for transport the jug was noticeably low. By that I mean the fresh unopened gallon of 15% Wildcat Super Premium for my two strokes was about 1 1/2" higher. Now that is after I added the 3 oz of oil mind you. I would not imply that anything is being done by Powermaster that is not on the up and up. It is fine fuel and I will continue to use it for my Saito and YS engines. Just posting my observations when I saw this thread. It could be something as simple as the automatic filler is coming up short. My LHS carries Coolpower, Omega, Wildcat and Powermaster. so we are fortunate to have that many choices. The other brands come in visible containers, so there is no guesswork what you see is what you get and buy. I still have 5 sealed cans, so we'll see what the next one looks like as they are all from the same batch number.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 2:58:57 PM   
TimC



Posts: 2202
Joined: 1/7/2003
From: Lone Pine, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The answer could be as simple as the sides of the Wlidcat jug bulging out over time, allowing it to hold more than a gallon.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/16/2005 4:01:46 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Anything is posssible, although the jug I use is fairly new and all of my fuel is kept inside unless I'm at the field. I just checked one of the PM cans and the volume is listed a one gallon, 3785ml. I have a friend who is a forensic chemist and I'll check with him to see if he can measure one of these cans to find out. I am sure that he can, but when he can do it is another issue. Maybe another unexpained mystery will get solved. .

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/18/2005 4:01:48 AM   
RaceCity



Posts: 1842
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: NotUpNorth, USA
Status: offline
Has anyone taken the time to actually measure the contents of a fresh can of PM, or are we just making assumptions?

Keep in mind that the fuel MFR has to allow for product expansion, so perhaps this is why your fuel can doesn't appear full?

Not for nothing, but PM fuel is about as good as it gets, and they offer a top notch fuel to satisfy the needs of nearly any type of motor out there. Heck....I'd choose a quart of POWERMASTER fuel over a 55 gallon drum of some of the other stuff out there...

'Race



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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/18/2005 5:00:24 PM   
Mr3Putt


 

Posts: 44
Joined: 9/30/2002
From: Cottage Grove, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Update- I went to a LHS other than the one where I bought my original 2 cases of POWERMASTER 15/18 and purchased a can of PM 15/18 with a different lot #. At home I very carefully measured the contents - 119 oz. - or 9 oz. short!!! As I stated before, I really like PM fuel and am not accusing them of any intentional wrong-doing, but this is more than a minor discrepancy and should be addressed immediately. I hope that more of you will take the time to check to see if you're getting what you paid for. In my case, I was shorted almost a gallon on fuel on the purchase of 13 gallons!!!

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/18/2005 6:02:40 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with what you are saying although in all fairness I have not scientifically measured the first gallon of the six that I purchased. There is a significant visual difference between the gallon of PM that I transferred to the empty Wildcat jug and the gallon of Wildcat 15% that I have not touched yet. That being said, I added 3 fluid oz of castor oil to that gallon of PM before the transfer. Visually the gallon of PM is down 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" lower in the jug than the untouched Wildcat jug. Before I stumbled upon this post, I did read in another forum somewhere that a member had experienced the same problem. That is why I paid more attention when I did this transfer. I have been advised to contact PM directly and that they will correct the problem, I am just not sure that I want to deal with packing and shipping containers back to receive replacement cans. This IMHO, could all be cured by getting rid of the metal cans. When gallons are sitting on the shelf of the LHS you can see the level in the jug and what you are buying. At the grocery store would your wife buy the full gallon of milk or the one that is 3/4 full? Besides that my fuel pump cap would then fit as it will not on the metal can. That is why I have to transfer to a plastic Wildcat jug. I think that this is great fuel, but I also agree that one should get what one pays for. Please advise us if you find any answers and/or resolutions as it sounds like you did take the time to do the measurements. This is starting to sound maybe commonplace as your measurements were from different batches and locations. Next question is, why should we as the consumer and bill payer have to do all of this?

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/19/2005 2:40:50 PM   
I3DFU



Posts: 59
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Louisville , KY, USA
Status: offline 		Oh my...........I was 1.5 oz short on the last 18 gallons of fuel which equates to almost one quart......but I bet I spilled more than that on the ground when filling my planes.

But ever since I started burning Cooper's fuel Ive noticed that Im getting an extra 3oz per gallon and no longer spill fuel on the ground. As a matter of fact every time I come back to my flight box theres more fuel in it than I left.


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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/19/2005 5:03:23 PM   
SaltyDog


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/28/2005
From: Madison, WI, USA
Status: offline 		This post piqued my curiosity as I am a fan of Powermaster but have wondered why they use metal cans when everyone else uses plastic jugs. I measured the contents of a new PM can - 118 oz. - 10 oz. short. I called my hobby shop who said they would call PM.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/19/2005 11:39:10 PM   
olstoney



Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/6/2004
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		This is getting more interesting by the day. If anyone gets any resolution on this matter, please post the results. Seems as though two members now have taken measurements and have come up short on the amount of the product that was paid for . Anyone else, or comments from anyone at Powermaster?

< Message edited by olstoney -- 7/20/2005 1:22:34 AM >

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/20/2005 4:28:30 PM   
Ute


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/20/2005
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Status: offline 		I stopped buying Powermaster last year after transferring fuel to a plastic Byron's jug and it came up about 1 1/2" short when compared to a full Byron's jug. I like to see what I'm getting.

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RE: Is POWERMASTER cheating? - 7/21/2005 8:01:55 PM   
byromarc