sdsavage
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Grand Prairie,
TX, USA
Status: offline
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I have been looking into and noteing the Blade for a little while now.
The best place to start is with a thread n this forum, go to page 5 and look
for a thread started by bdavison called "Bdavison's E-flite Blade Assembly".
Bdavison has done a lot to get you started in the right direction on the Blade
with his setup advise in this thread.
Below are some of the notes I have retained for my on useage in learning about
the Blade. These may or may not be of help and might just leave you with more
Question.
Hope this isn't information OVERLOAD there just my notesof all the threads I
had read in this forum.
E-FLIGHT BLADE CP
To correct Blade CP sticking collective problem that manifests itself in the following manner.........Getting ready for take off, advancing the throttle, but no response from the heli other than an ever increasing head speed, and then suddenly with no warning the heli rips off toward the treetops like a sidewinder missile. Scary to say the least and disastrous if you are flying indoors.
The main blade grips have two ball bearings each. These bearings must have their outer races touching only the inside surface of the blade grip bearing cavity to be effective. It seems that the assembly point has been loading the parts intended to contact only the inner race of the ball bearings in the wrong order.
Once you have the blade grips removed from the spindle shaft, you will see that an aluminum spacer is installed next to the bearing and is making contact with the outer race of the outside grip bearing. This prevents free rotation of the grip on this bearing and I believe is causing the "sticking collective anomaly". As received there is an M2 washer mounted directly under the M2 retaining bolt. This is smaller in O.D., than the spacer and needs to be in position next to the bearing. It only makes contact with the inner bearing race and everything operates freely when installed in this fashion.
All that needs to be done is to swap the location of the aluminum spacer and the M2 washer outside the grip on the M2 securing bolt. I have several flights on all three of my Blades and have not experienced the "sticking collective" issue on any of them since reordering the parts.
If you understand what is going on here then as the rpm increases and the centrifugal force exerted by the rotor blades pulls the parts discussed here even tighter together, the binding holds the blades at the beginning pitch until enough servo power overcomes the problem and suddenly slams the head into maximum positve pitch and off you go.
If my words are not clear, I have enclosed some pics to aid understanding. This information has been sent to Horizon Hobby.
Be aware that if you dissassemble the spindle, the two washers that go next to the o-ring damener have a shoulder on them. The shoulder goes towards the blade holder bearing and away from the o-Ring dampener. It's shown as part 015 on the exploded diagam in the manual.
Swap the position of part 040 and 039 on both sides of the head. So that part 039 is where part 040 used to be. You do not change anything where the o-ring is. This will eliminate the "sticky" collective problem, and make throttle transitions much smoother. It will also make the heli lift off around half throttle, instead of 3/4 throttle like it did before, and it wont jump up in altitude when the collective "kicks in" anymore.
I am also on my 3rd main shaft. I believe I had the blade grips to tight. Every time I would land in grass, and the heli would tip over with the blades hitting the ground (not hard) bending the shaft. I loosened the grips and it hasn't happened again.
To check your blade pitch do the following.
Remove the canopy.
Unplug both the main motor and the tail motor from the "black box" (Remember the polarity!!!)
Now turn on the transmitter, and plug in the battery on the heli.
Wait for the gyro to init.
Now pull the throttle all the way down, and move throttle trim all the way down.
There should be 0 pitch in the blades and in the flybar paddles.
Now slowly move it up to full throttle.
The pitch should slowly increase, until it has +10 degrees pitch in the blades, and 0 in the paddles at full throttle.
Now switch it to "idle up mode"
Center the throttle stick EXACTLY center.
There should be 0 pitch in the blades and 0 pitch on paddles.
Move the throttle stick to full throttle.
There should be +10 degrees in the blades and 0 in paddles.
Move the throttle stick all the way down.
There should be -10 degrees in the blades and 0 in paddles.
Now put the transmitter back in "regular" mode. Move the throttle stick and throttle trims all the way down.
Unplug the heli battery, and reattach the motors.
Now plug the heli battery back in.
Wait for gyro to init.
****WARNING**** ROTORS ARE LIVE.
Now run it up, and check the tracking.
Find the blade that is tracking "LOW". Adjust the linkage so that it moves it up to track with the high blade.
Now once you have them tracking right, its time to check the gyro.
Set it down on the floor. Throttle trim all the way down. Now run it up to about 3/4 throttle, but dont lift off.
If its trying to spin, remember which way its going. Now open your manual, and look for the section which talks about adjusting the "proportional adjustment" on the gyro. Follow the instructions.
Once youve adjusted that....its good to go.
Go fly it. Any further adjustments can be made via the transmitter trims. If you fly it and it requires more trim on rudder than what you have in transmitter trim. Go back and adjust the "proportional" on the gyro a little more, until you get it to where the trims are about centered.
AS far as the pitch problem, try moving the throtle trim forward before you even run up the blades. From what I can gather, the trim works for fine tuning the pitch. When I first started with the blade, hovering was almost full left stick. I now move the trim 1/2 way forward, and hover is a bit over 1/2 throtle. Remember that you need to have the trim all the way back for the 4in1 to boot-up and also reduce the trim right before you crash-ha ha.
To tame the blade down and get it to hover within a 5-7 inch radius this is what you need to do:
1. unplug your motors from 4 in 1.
2. turn on your transmitter first then plug battery in. you should see your blades adjust themselves.
3. Look at your swash plate, is it level? if not you need to adjust the arms and make it level.
4. turn everything off, plug your motors back in.
5. turn your transmitter on first, then plug your battery in.
6. give it some therottle and track the blades, if they are out of track get them adjusted.
7. after 6 turn everything off and repeat 5 and set your throttle trim about half way up and go to half throttle and your heli should be getting light on the skids.
8. adjust your trims as needed.
9. give more throttle and bring her off ground about 5 inches, you should have a farely stable hover considering you are fighting ground affect.
If you do all the above you should have no problem.
As far as the ratchet, remove the back of the radio, and look on the side of the gymbal. There is a small metal clicker that is the ratchet. Just loosen the screw </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1636>. Dont remove it though or the stick will be really sloppy. You'll still have the ratchet, but it soften it up where its not so annoying.
Heat sinks just "pop" on. But ya, you should use some thermal paste too. You can get that cheap at Radio Shack or similar store. Use a VERY thin layer of thermal paste spread onto the motor or heat sink and then just pop it on.
Here's the best tips I can give you for a long tail motor life.
1. When you mount the tail motor get the mesh between the tail motor pinion and the tail gear as smooth and fluid as possible.
2. Install a good heatsink. If your using the E-flite ones...install two side by side.
3. Dont stall the motor. If the tail rotor catches on the grass or the ground while power is applied it stalls out the motor and it overheats and burns up.
I went through two tail motors pretty quick when I first got my blade before I learned these lessons...My current one is over 25 flights, and still kickin.
Not sure which direction the fins on the heatsinks should go. Should they face front or back?
On the main motor, they should face forward, otherwise they will get in the way of the servo arms.
The tail motor is going to go on facing front too, I dont think you could put it on facing rear.
You can see some additional tips on installing the heat sinks (and Aerobatic Enhancement Kit when youre ready) in the article found here:
<http://www.horizonhobby.com/Explore/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1461>
Theres also a ton more info on the Blade CP </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=2484> found in the thread here:
<http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377569>
The swashplate bearing seized and the resulting torque yanked the swashplate retaining bar around and snapped the retaining slot. At this point, it might be recommended to lubricate the swashplate bearing.
Optional Aerobatic Enhancement Kit (EFLH1168 which can be found here: <http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH1168> ) installed along with a 3S 860-1320mAh LiPo </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=2455> pack the Blade CP does become an even more capable machine which has the ability to loop, roll, fly inverted and more, but most of the aggressive 3D flying such as chaos, death spirals, etc is better left for larger models.
Tips on installaing the optional Aerobatic Enhancement Kit and 3S LiPo </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=2455> here:
<http://www.horizonhobby.com/Explore/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1461>
One suggestion. You need to make the line "...unplug both the main and tail motor wires from the 4-in-1 control unit ..." on page 8 of the manual in BOLD SUPER TYPE. If some poor fellow speeding through the manual doesnt catch that before moving to page 9, he's gonna get a nasty surprise if he's not familiar with how CCPM helis work.
Also, It would be nice if the charger had a LED in it to show charging status, and perhaps a auto-cutoff at full charge.
Were you able to spot the Carbon Blades on horizonhobby.com??
I do think that the blade is great on the stock motor, but I just thought that the brushless </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1338> may be a little more efficient. Longer runtimes and less battery weight.
First time you smack the skids any they will break. I intially used some heavy fishing line but since have found some carbon fiber thread. What you want to do is wrap a cast around the skid and leg of the gear. Kind of a figure eight and wrap up the leg and around the skid and then thin CA the whole thing so you have a little leg cast and it will never break again.
Next is I put a piece of small silicone fuel line over the tail skid that sticks down and that will help prevent tail rotor strikes. Just slide about a 1 inch piece up over the skid and let about 1/4 inch hang down. I also cut four pieces of flourescent orange large fuel line and put those over the skids, Protects my cast windings from getting scraped into and makes things a little softer and much easier to see.
I've started to keep a spare piece of "tubing" on the bottom of the tail rotor skid. This way when the rotor blade pops off and I can't find the tubing/retainer, I have a spare handy.
Thats a good tip. Ill have to try that. I must have lost 20 of those darn things when I first started with the training gear on. The pingpong ball would move and ....poof off it went. Im not using the training gear anymore, but the tail rotor will still come off occasionally on a rough landing.
I might have to shove some of those canopy grommets on there too.
I took the back of my TX (4 screws) and slide a 1/8" of fuel tubing over the metal tab used to "ratchet" the throttle/collective. What a difference.
Any ideas on how to set up a hh gyro.
You should be able to connect it from the 4-in-1 box to the tail motor I would think.
Id just crank up the gain on the gyro.
Whats the best way to remove ball links on this thing - I'm afraid i'm going to break them or mess up the balls.
I use a set of Universal Ball Link pliers to remove/install the ball links on my BCP helis. I still make sure to take care when using them though as the links and balls are small and could be damaged if youre not careful.
With the ball links, Ive always just used my fingers. put your thumb on the ball itself, and then put your index finger on the other side of the link. Now squeeze. Your not trying to pull the link off the ball, your trying to push the ball out of the link. It takes a little getting used to.
I dont like having the trim up so I screwed out the ball links three turns each side now she flys!!
I always adjust the linkages to fine tune it first, then if minor trims are needed I use the transmitter trims. The transmitter should always be the last thing you adjust. Make the heli fly right first, then make fine adjustments on the transmitter.
Also if you ever have a heli that is spinning out of control. DONT try to enter in any cyclic. Just pull the throttle off slowly letting it descend, just before it touches down, pull the throttle and throttle trims all the way down. This way the rotor head and tail rotor can free wheel on touchdown. If it tips, which it probably will, it will save you a bent flybar, main shaft and who knows what else.
If its wanting to turn, you need to adjust the gyro so that with the trims centered, it will not turn. Read your instruction manual for how to adjust the gyro.
As far as the tail swing, stop, swing thing, It probably due to one of two reasons. Either the tail motor is hot, in which case let it cool down, or your getting low on battery juice.
Main shaft is slightly bent
To remove it, Undo the linkages from the swashplate to the head. Pull the pin out of the head. Now using moderate force, pull the head off the shaft. Now undo the linkages from the servos to the swashplate. Slide the swashplate off the shaft. If it gets stuck where the pin goes through the shaft. DO NOT FORCE IT!!!!. Take a small needle file, and deburr the edges around the hole until the swashplate slides off. If you force it, it will burr or scratch the inside of the swashplate bearing.
Now remove the retaining collet, and the landing gear and the battery tray. Slide the shaft out of the main body from the bottom. There are two ball bearings in the main body, so dont lose them.
Reverse to put it back together.
Removing The shaft on the Blade is a solid bar of steel. Its hard but not impossible to bend it. Im assuming you've already figured out how to remove it from the heli. If not here are the instructions.
First remove the pin from the rotor head. Its located directly below where the blade holders are screwed into the head.
Remove the screw </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1636> on top of the rotor head.
Disconnect the loop links from the swashplate.
Pull the head off.
Disconnect the servos from the swashplate
Tilt the swashplate forward, pull the little swashplate retaining bar back and slide the swashplate off the shaft.
Remove the collet.
Remove the skids.
Slide the shaft out from the bottom of the heli.
***Note*** there are two ball bearings in the heli frame....dont lose them.
Reverse procedures to reinstall.
First off, READ the instruction manual front to back...EVERY WORD. Follow them exactly and perform all the "pre-flight" checklists.
Install your training gear.
Take the heli outside or in a large indoor area like a gym.
Place the heli with the tail facing you.
Turn on transmitter first.
Pull the throttle stick and throttle trim ALL the way down.
Plug in the battery to the helicopter and DONT move it.
Wait for the light on the side of the "black box" to show continuous green light.
Now stand back about 10 ft.
Move the throttle trim lever up about 1/2 way. The blades will start spinning.
Now slowly start moving the throttle stick up. If at any time the tail starts swinging around. Pull all the throttle off. Adjust your rudder trim until it stays straight. Keep increasing throttle until you notice that the heli is getting "light on the skids". Dont go airborne yet.
Now move your sticks around gently while you get a feel for how it moves. Try to steer the heli around on the ground. If you get into trouble, pull the throttle off, re-align the tail towards you and start over.
Keep doing this until you feel comfortable with it.
Now rev it up a little more one click at a time on the throttle stick until the training balls are just lightly brushing the ground. Its going to move alot faster now. Practice the same thing. Try to keep it in one place, and keep the tail facing you. If you get into trouble, pull the throttle off, re-align the heli and try again.
Once you feel comfortable doing this, your ready to try hovering. Its make or break time. Are you ready?
Run it up slowly again. When you get to 3/4 throttle. Get ready. Now bump it up to full throttle. The heli will lift off quickly so be ready. As soon as it lifts off, start pulling the throttle back so it doesnt get too high. You want it about chest high. It will move about 2x as fast in the air than on the ground. Keep the tail facing you. When you've had enough land it, and take a break. Smile, have a coke, blink a few times to re-wet your eyes. We will be here waiting for your adrenaline </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=916> rush to calm down a bit.
Now, think for a moment about what your hands were doing while you were flying. Were you having to hold anything in to keep it stable? If so adjust your trims so that you dont have to hold anything in.
- If the bad stuff happens-
Well, if you tookoff and it tipped over and flipped into the ground. Immediatly pull off all the throttle and move the throttle trim lever all the way down. Walk over to the heli, and unplug the battery. Turn off the transmitter, and survey the damage. If your lucky, nothing but a little hanger rash. If your unlucky, you could be replacing some parts. Dont give up. Just repair your heli, and try again. I would recommend you get a little more "ground skidding" practice before trying to hover again.
I might also suggest those who have a few free minutes to read through some of the posts in the BCP thread found here:
<http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377569>
Regarding the stock set up vs symmetrical/3S LiPo packs - the included flat bottom blades, motor and 8 cell NiMh pack are very well suited for general hovering, forward flight and sport flying. The 650mAh packs deliver about 8-10 minutes flight time in most cases which is not at all bad for NiMh packs. For those not yet into aerobatics, there is no need to move into the symmetrical blades and 3S LiPos yet. When you do though, the increased headspeed does allow for a more nimble machine with durations of 13-18 minutes on 3S 860-900mAh packs and upwads of 25+ minutes on 3S 1200-1320mAh packs.
When choosing 3S LiPo packs for the BCP, pack performance is important. Low quality, low cost LiPo packs with discharge rates of 3-6C will work OK in the BCP but wont allow for the best performance. For the very best performance with an excellent balance of weight, power and duration, I highly recommend the E-flite </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1520> 860 and Thunder Power 900mAh packs recommend in the BCP manual. Having flown the BCP with less expensive, lower discharge rate packs I can honestly say that the difference in performance between those and the EFL/THP packs is quite noticeable.
As far as batteries. Look for a Thunderpower 3cell 11.1V 900mah lipo </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=2455>. These work great on the stock Blade. Much longer flight times, and they weigh less too I think.
I can buy 2 battery 1100mAh istead of 1 battery 1300mAh (thunder) at the same price
I'd been flying around on the stock 10T pinion'd motor, so I decided to upgrade. The aerobatic enhancement kit comes with a 9T pinion. But Im nuts, so I went a step further and put a 8T pinion 370 motor in it...HOLY MOSES....
The head speed is really ripping now, and its smooooooooth as glass. The heli just gingerly lifts off the ground. And stays in a DEAD still hover. Its literally like its sitting on an invisable table or something. No more of that skid shaking slow head speed rattle, its smoooooooth.
The tail motor smoothed out too. Its not so twitchy. So basically drop the 9T or 8T pinion'd motor in yours. You'll notice a big difference. Run a 1320mah 3cell lipo and fly around for 25 min. I would recommend the TP 3cell 1320mah for max performance.
Will a himaxx 2015 4100kw brushless </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1338> and a pheonix 10 work with the blade
I dont know edge. The Blade has the reciever, mixer, ESC and gyro's all together in the 4-in-1 box. The 4-in-1 box has connections for a regular brushed motor that wont work on brushless </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=1338>. The reciever side has all 6ch's slots on it, but I dont know how you would connect it all. You'd probably have to use a different radio than the stock one too, because you'd have to do some programming most likely.
Ill be honest, you really dont need a brushless motor </buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=233> on it. It flys fine with the stock or "aerobatic enhancement" kit.
Regarding the brushless motor, we've been testing some set ups and I can honestly say the brushed set up with 3S LiPo packs is still very good compared.
Newer N30 motors, exactly the same as the Blade, ESky Honeybee2 CP2 and FP2..
You'll notice the new part number, the old one is in brackets.
They're not inferior. They're the same motor!
The Blade Heli has gone through extensive testing with stock motor setups, and lipoly batteries, and its been found that all you will need to do is change the pinion on the stock motor, and you will be able to run a 3 cell lipo with no trouble. You will want to change over to an 8 tooth pinion, and everything should work fine
Blade uses the exact same parts as the Esky 5005 Carbooon CCPM heli.
The only difference I can see is that the Blade has better avionics in it
is there a trick on aligning the flybar paddles? (should be flat, right?)
As far as aligning the flybar paddles. Use a pitch gauge. The paddles should have 0 pitch in them.
The po'mans method is to use a ruler with a hole in the middle of it. The rotor head fits through the hole, and then you line up the paddles with the bottom of the ruler.
The alum parts for the "Dragonfly" and other micro heli does fit the Blade (not the swashplate etc...)
But the Tail-boom\rotor\skids and that stuff it`s the same on the blade cp..
I dont know about the frame itself ??
The frame is soooo weak, mine has broken 3 times now
Remember these aren't my inputs but others in this forum, these are notes I had
retained for my Information on the Blade. Sorry it's so long
< Message edited by sdsavage -- 7/14/2005 11:17:52 AM >
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> Problems and fixes for the BLADE C....please advise 
Problems and fixes for the BLADE C....please advise - 
RE: Problems and fixes for the BLADE C....please advise - 