Spockie-Tech

For everyone who's been wanting to know what the Dip Switches on the back of the Walkera 35 and 36 Tx Do, here's what I've managed to figure out so far..

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#1-Elev(ator)
#2-Aile(ron)
#3-Thro(ttle)
#4-Rudd(er)
#9-Pit(ch)
#10-Gear
are all servo-direction-reversing switches. When I replaced the standard Walkera Dragonfly servo's with Hitec HS55's I found that they move in the opposite direction to the dragonfly servo's, so all these switches needed to be flipped to make the servo's move the right way. For standard servo's they should be fine the way they come.

If a channel is moving the wrong way, flip it. Be careful flipping #3, since on the Walkera Rx, the integrated Speed Controller is internally coupled to channel 3 and you will end up with full-power being at the idle stick position.

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#5-Heli/Acro switch enables a feature that I think other radio's usually call "Revo (Revolution) mixing" that is sometimes used for Helicopters.

As you increase the throttle (channel 3), it adds a bit of rudder (channel 4) automatically to compensate for the increased torque reaction from the increase in power going into the rotor. The screen-print labelling on my Radio for this channel seems to be backwards though. When the switch is to the left (Heli mode according to the screen printing) the feature is disabled, when it is to the right (Acro Mode) this feature is enabled.

It doesnt seem to be necessary with the Walkera gyro, I find the Heli stays stable with this feature disabled.

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If you do enable Switch #5, then switch #6 determines what direction the rudder channel (channel 4) will move/mix as you add throttle. If the rudder-revo correction is the wrong way, then flip this switch. Again, this one probably doesnt matter for Walkera choppers, since with #5 switched off, #6 has no effect.

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#7 changes the transmitter mode from CCPM (Cyclic/Collective Pitch Mixing) to "Normal". CCPM mode is used on some Helicopters that have 3 servo's connected directly to the swashplate and move them in combinations to control both the pitch and collective (hence the name).

With CCPM Mode, Collective Pitch is increased by moving all the swash servos up at the same time, Forward/Backward and Side/Side Cyclic Pitch is varied by moving two of the swash servos in opposite directions. Again, this feature isnt used on the Walkera Choppers since they dont use CCPM - Their rotor head uses a seperate collective servo which requires "normal" mode.

Supposedly CCPM is better for less slop in the rotor head since there are less linkages to get sloppy, but requires stronger servo's since they are coupled directly to swashplate and have to cop the full swash forces and vibrations.

Again, on my Tx, the CCPM/NORM labelling is reversed. Normal mode is to the left and CCPM mode to the right. If more than 1 servo moves when you move the cyclic stick, your Tx is in CCPM mode. Even if using a CCPM Heli, you will need it to be in normal mode for use with a simulator via a cable.

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#8 is the pitch curve lock/unlock switch. This one is actually labelled correctly !

With it in the lock position, the PZT/PLT knobs have no effect and stay as there were when it was last unlocked. When in the Unlock position, the PZT/PLT knobs will work, and when returned to lock, the Tx will remember the last PZT/PLT settings.

from what I can tell, the PZT is probably the "Pitch Zero Trim" (or something like that). It sets the "Zero Point" of the throttle/pitch curve. Zero is the lowest pitch position which is at low-stick when in "Normal" mode, and at Mid-Stick in 3D ("1") mode.

"PLT" is probably "Pitch Length Trim" or some other piece of "Engrish".. It sets the Travel or Range of the collective pitch servo (or all 3 swash servo's in CCPM mode). With it turned all the way down, the position of the throttle stick makes no change to the collective pitch. With it all the way up the pitch travel is at maximum.

In normal mode, the travel is one-way, from the "Zero Point" (PZT) to the maximum set by the PLT knob. In 3D (1) mode, the Travel is two-way to either side of the set Zero-Point. I suppose this is so you can set negative-pitch at down-stick for inverted flight if you're that adventurous.

If you have a pitch-gauge you can set the zero and maximum pitches by the numbers in the manual. Without a pitch gauge in normal mode, I turned them both to minimum, then spool up to medium stick and then adjust the PZT/Zero knob until the heli just starts to lift off, then spool down, unplug the motor and set the PLT knob to achieve maximum pitch without binding the mechanism.

If it sounds like you are bogging the motor down at full-lift, you would probably want to turn the PLT down a bit to reduce the current load on the speed controller.

Thats about what I've managed to suss out so far. If anyone knows of any errors, let us know..

draglin

I would like to see that design

desertpunk

Hi and thanks for a great thread. I live i Norway and i'm a beginner when it comes to RC helicopters. Bought my Dragonfly #36 from eBay. Standard model with the 650mah battery. lasts to short and i want to buy a new one with a charger. From reading this thread, i understand that [link=http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=24_75&products_id=3267]this[/link] battery is not good. am i correct?? if i am correct, from where do i buy good batteries and an ok charger? is [link=http://cgi.ebay.com/LiPolymer-11-1v-1800mAh-Battery-12v-Speed-charger7203_W0QQitemZ7541078812QQcategoryZ4660QQcm dZViewItem]this[/link] OK?

have tried to get the #36 in the air but with no luck yet. it will fly eventually, but it all depends on learning to trim the helicopter properly and to learn to hover. have broken many parts already. New ones, and a training kit are on the way. looking forward to it.

Spockie-Tech

Bottom Line - If the seller doesnt advertise the "C" Discharge rating, assume its junk. Also, if it comes with a cheap'n'nasty looking plugpack for a charger, also assume its Junk. The battery you mentioned strikes out on both counts sorry.

A good Lipo will handle at least 10C to 12C (10-12 x its capacity in ma/hr) discharge. So a 10C - 2000ma/hr (2A/hr)battery will put out 10x2 = 20amps of current. This is probably the minimum you want for a Walkera Chopper. 12C-15C would probably be nicer.

Anything less and the voltage will fade quickly, you will lose enough power to hover, the battery will get very hot, possibly explode and definitely be damaged and quickly reduce in capacity even further. If you are not using an ESC with low battery protection, stop trying to fly the moment the battery appears to lose power. Over-discharging is suposed to hurt Li-Po's as well..

Same for using a poor charger. Incorrect voltage, poor regulation, overcharging and out-of-balance cells are all bad things to do to a Lipo Pack. you really want to get a reuptable brand of charger specifically designed for Li-Po's, preferably with a cell-balance function and some over-charge protection and temperature sensing in it.

The Swallow battery charger is probably the best value for money one I know of. It needs to run from 12v though, so you need a power supply or car battery power lead to plug it into. http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_mod...ry_charger.htm

If you're serious about getting a good LiPo and a good charger go for Thunder Power, Kokam, PolyQuest, maybe Align or one of the well known, C specified batteries.

Traveler

Hey Spockie-Tech,

Regarding the chargers: I got some of these wall-plug type chargers with several LiPo-packs and, although it's always wise to monitor any LiPo-pack closely during charging and never let it out of sight, they seem to be OK. It's the variant with the red LED that turns green when the pack is full. I measured the voltage on the charger and a full battery with a good DVM, half an hour after the LED went green, with a 3S-pack, and it was only 30 mV or so over the nominal 12.6V. If you pull it off as soon as the LED turns green, it's usually just under 12.6V. I find it intresting that in most LiPo charging-related horror-stories I've read so far, the more advanced chargers were beeing used. The more options, the easier it is to make a mistake, IMHO. These chargers also sometimes mis-calculate the cell-count, in case they're set for auto-detection. With the wall-plug, you just plug it in, it'll charge the pack in about 2 hours at it's fixed rate of (usually) around 0.5C, the light turns green when the pack reaches nominal voltage and it's done. The charger's voltage and current are fixed and it doesn't try to be intelligent or has any settings you need to worry about. I think most of these stories about wall-chargers beeing bad date back to the days when LiPo's were still very new and some suppliers shipped them with NiCd/NiMh-chargers, or the package included LiPo as well as NiMh with the same connectors and 2 chargers, and the user used the wrong charger with the LiPo.

Here's the labels on the wall-plugs I have used with succes for numerous charges so far:

Li-Ion charger
Model: PR-9V-0.6A
Input: AC100~240V
Output: 8.4V @ 500mA

Came with my Walkera #05-2


Power adapter
Model: FYC1261000A
Input: AC 100 - 240V~
Output: DC 12.6V @ 1A

This is what RC Expert (www.rc-expert.com) ships as charger for their 3S-packs.


Grtz,

Traveller

Spockie-Tech

Thats true. the more buttons and settings there are to get wrong, the more likely it is that something will be set wrong somewhere. Plug and play does reduce the possibiity of user error, and its probably user error that has caused most blow-ups.

However, its more the *quality* of the plugpack that concerns me. I have seen a *lot* of very ordinary plugpack-chargers with a single diode half-wave rectifier, a tiny capacitor to approximately smooth the pulsating DC and a resistor to limit the maximum current with no regulator, making the final voltage being dependant on the mains current voltage.

Charging with this sort of poorly rectified, un-smoothed and un-regulated plugpack is unlikely to make any big bangs, but it is guarranteed to reduce the effective capacity and life cycle of any battery pretty quickly.. thats more what concerned me.

I havent actually disassembled or tested the plugpacks that come with the Walkera Lipo's yet (I'm an Electronic Engineer, so I know what I'm doing there), so I cant say for sure they're like that. But if it matches the quality of the Walkera LiPo cells, I wouldnt expect much.

I'll see if I can find time to put them on the Oscilloscope and find out just how stable and regulated the output is and report back soon.

Traveler

Hey Spockie-Tech,

The 2 wall-plug LiPo-chargers I have are both switch-mode and I think that should make their output pretty stable I don't have an oscilloscope to test it, though. I agree that quality is sometimes an issue. To charge a LiPo safely, some sort of high-precision regulator is required, for voltage as well as current. What you described doesn't sound like something I would try to charge a LiPo with. :-) I assume you're talking about NiCd / NiMh-chargers.


Grtz,

Traveller

jascamera

HI,

I brought 2 new li-ion batteries. One of them are hard and seems be good. THe other one is soft and expanded a little and I am afraid it's bad. Do anyone konw if I should still use it?

thecheatscalc

PLEASE if it's swollen DON't use it. if you do us it it has a good chance of exploding, or when charging it could explode, return the swollen one. turst me a burnt down heli/house/car isn't worth it [8D]

DEFLYER22

If anyone like to read the Walkera No. 36 manual before you buy, I found the free manual listed here - [link=http://www.do-ok.net/index.php?t=sq&uin=31]Click to read the manual - not membership needed[/link]

millewi

I've been looking at putting in a brushless motor. I see that most are adding the Walkera 180L. Is this a good motor. The 30 or 40 amp ESC really scares me. Why in the world would you design a Speed Control that has half the size gage wire to the battery as the motor. It just seems like a major melt down. This motor looks really good E-Flite Long Powerful Brushless Motor EFLM1000 http://www.helihobby.com/html/helico...ic_motors.html. Looks like it would fit. Has anyone put any other motor in other than a Walkera? I was also looking at the E-Flite 40A Brushless Speed Controller. Bothe the motor and ESC are on Helihobby. Good combo for the #36?

I had a strange problem the other day. Went to adjust some setting on the copter and for some reason only had 1/3 power on the battery meter. Double checked the connections still the same thing. Tested all batteries and all with 1.4 - 1.5 volts. Took the controller apart checked all connections and put it back together. Power was back. Had me scratching my head. While I had it apart I wanted to see what was causing the hot spot on the right side of the controller when powered on for a few min. I found a power transistor with a heat-sink that I don't think is dissipating the heat very well. Something that came to mind is everyone that has been experiencing glitches. I'm wondering if the power transistor is overheating on these after a few minutes of use and causing the controller to have a power dip which may be causing the glitches.

CitYbYdBaY

Ok, I finally got my tx, rx, walkera gyro, 30a esc, and 180 brushless motor back from the seller.

Hooked everything up and charged the 11.1v 2200mah blue li-po battery with the supplied li-ion wall battery charger (red light means battery is charging, and green light means fully charged).

Took the dragonfly #36 down to the garage to do a range test, and all was well no signal lost. Spooled it up and past 50% throttle and no signal lost. Pushed the throttle up just a bit more and I could see the training gear on the heli start to lift off the ground.

It seems that when the heli is up in the air about 3-4 feet it's more stable. When it's just about a few inches to about a feet or two, the heli won't stay still and moves all over the place.

Well I'm happy to see this heli off the ground and skidding around on the ground for the first time. This is my first heli and I was ready to give up on it already from all the problems I had. But was already forgotten by actually seeing it fly before my very own eyes, it's amazing and the experience is priceless. I just want to thank RCU and all it's members for being here for us noobs.

CitYbYdBaY

I have posted a pic of my heli in my previous post above. I have replaced the Elev and Pit stock servos with hitec hs-55 servos, because I stripped gears on the stock servos by moving them with my hands. The hitec hs-55 servos are working pretty well. I have mounted the stock walkera receiver on it's side, instead of it's back. I made a square cut out on the shrink wrap of the heatsink side of the walkera 30A ESC for cooling and mounted it on the side of the heli instead of the bottom under the heli.

I have the training gear on right now, and I was wondering if the training gear weighs down the heli that much? Becuase I have to go past 50% throttle before my heli starts to lift off the ground. I don't know if it's just me, or would the heli lift off the ground easier without the training gear, like at 50% throttle? Or could it be that my pitch settings are off or my blades aren't balanced right?

Pubhi

My Feedback: (5)

I finally took the plunge after many weeks of debate and bought a walkers #36 off ebay for $215.00 shipped. It comes with spare parts, lipo and a brushless setup. Here is the aution I won: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN%3AIT&rd=1


I have been practicing flying heli's on the G3 and I can hover and such just fine, in differing orientations. I'm sure the actual flying experience will be quite different from the sim but I think I should do fine(crossing my fingers).

Can someone tell me what I should do prior to my first flight? WHich nuts and bolts have a bad history of being loose? Any other opinions would be helpfull. Thank!

thecheatscalc

ahh i finally got my heli yesterday (on sunday! I thought they didn't ship on sundays...?!?!) it came with nothing bent the electronics work fine, if i mess with the controls a bit the chattering stops, well if i'm going to go into so much detail might as well make a list.

RATINGS (quality/condition)

abs (foamies?) blades, 5
swash, 5
swash/servo connections, 5
servos, 4
electronics, 4.5
tail assm. , 5
gyro, 5
rx, 5
manul, 4
spelling, 2
OVERALL RATING 4.7

ok so I MUST have gotten lucky. every thing is as it should be on my heli, my biggest complaint is that the screws are soft and most are overtightened [:@] but besides that every thing checks out I just need to mess with the pitch some more,

oh, the range for me is about 100 ft, so what's the best setup for the antenna?

thecheatscalc

I seem to have a very weird problem. after messing with the pitch adjustment I could only make the blades go up to 2-4 degrees ( the bottom of the blades are level) what should I do? I have checked every thing. the thing that slides on the shaft and makes the blades go up and down (yes I forgot the name) when at its highest position it lets the blades go to 3 degrees MAX I really have no clue what to do besides making the connector rods longer.

jascamera

You pobably changed the PZT nob. Try that might give yo more pitch degree

Do any one know if the Walkera 180 brushless motor with 3200 rpm and the 30 A ESC setup is any good? I have the stock, but lookign for something stronger.

CitYbYdBaY

I have the 30a ESC and 180 3200 Brushless motor. I never tried the stock motor. But I guess it's better than stock. The brushless motor is smaller than the stock motor, so I guess it's lighter. But I think you will need to get a li-po battery to have longer run times.

I was trying to hover today and all of the sudden a strong wind came by and my heli started to drift backwards, I panic and dropped the throttle and the heli landed a bit hard. I only broke one main blade assemby. So that's not too bad, I found new replacements part # HM036-001 for $10.50 on Ebay including shipping. Next time I won't hover so high and keep it low to the ground until I get better at it.

DEFLYER22

The Walkera No. 36 is better go with the brushless motor and the 30A ESC. Walkera Brushless motor and ESC is the choice for you.

Crash is something come with this hobby and we all have this kind of experience (a lot may be )

stephsf

Hi guys,

Had an interesting snag happen the other day.

I run a 36 with brushless motor and 2200 LiPo.

I was running up, helo light on the skids, half a second from lift off when all off a sudden the motor revs went up and the rotor rpm went down []. Obviously the helo settled back down on the ground.

I expected that the main drive gear teeth had stripped, but upon closer examination I saw that the motor main shaft had sheared Surely this shouldn't have happened?

I emailed my original supplier and after a couple of tries convincing him that it wasn't a crash, he relented and agreed to send me a new motor.

Has this happened to any of you?

Best regards

jascamera

You might have the pictch too high. It's normal that the motor speed come down as you throttle if the pitch angle is too high. Yu might want to try lessen the pitch a bit. Or your battery might not be good.

thecheatscalc

I'm having a bit of trouble getting the heli off the ground. The problem is that the blade speed is too slow (with pitch) ok so here's the deal, I put it on 3D mode (just for pitch control ) ok I put the blades at 1-2 degrees making the rotor speed go like it's supposed to. then when I push it up the main blades slow down so I only get a small hop ( 2 feet max) then it settles down to light on the skids again. what could be the problem It's NOT
pitch
gear mesh
tail belt
blades

could it be my (stock) motor is just too wimpy it really shouldn't be, as no one else complains about this. my motor is pretty hot bu I don't have a heat sink so this should be expected. This has me really confused and I would like to get it off the ground.


PS I found the first messup in the heli. The servo for forward and backward is sheared off after the third hole, no big deal but, could this have been intentional? it does look like the servos would have been hitting each other...

thecheatscalc

sorry to double post but this is kinda urgent. I really don't want to keep trashing blades fighting ground effect... []

I GUESS it could be the motor but... why would it be faulty? it works just fine... also my battery works fine as well so that's not it... PLEASE help

millewi

thecheatscalc

I had same issues. ? what battery are you using? I had the one that came with my copter lipo 2200 and it was junk. I got a thunderpower 2100 and I'm now able to hover. Only thing I'm working on now is tail control. Wiggle sometimes when I'm about 3 feet off the ground. Been reading and seen this could be associated with GYRO to sensitive or low headspeed. I did have my GYRO turned up. I think it was that but it could be the headspeed cause it seems that the stock motor has a hard time keeping the copter in the air.

Spockie-Tech

I'm guessing its your battery.. what makes you think its fine ?

The Lipo's that came with the 2 x Walkera #35's I bought both showed similair symtpoms to yours..

Fully charged, just off a Triton charger I'd get ~30 second hops then the chopper would seem to get "Tired" and just not have the grunt to lift off any more. Spin it down and wait for 30 seconds and I would get another 10 or 15 second hop.

They also came with a 650mAh NiMH pack, which did not show this problem. They would lift off and hover fine (well, as fine as my present skill allowed which isnt much ) and last for maybe 5-7 minutes before going flat.

Seeing as how there is no "C" specification on the Lipo's that came with the charger, I'm guessing they're just not up to handling the current drain and the voltage is sagging under the increased current load when the pitch increases.

Try tying the chopper down, put a multimeter on the battery as you carefully spin it up and load it, and watch the battery voltage as the pitch comes in.

I plan on doing some tests of this nature myself soon and I'll post what I find out.

On that note, I disassembled and tested the plug-pack (Wall-Wart) chargers that came with the Chopper and found one of them to be junk and the other one a bit better than expected.

The NiMh plugpack is the usual transformer, bridge and cap, with a couple of current limiting resistors and some led's. No regulation at all and nothing to terminate the charge, so its either charging so slowly that they're probably hoping the inevitable over-charge when someone leaves the batteries on for 2 days wont hurt the batteries too much.

The assembly quality is rubbish with bits of sticky tape used to half-heartedly insulate leads that elsewhere are running uninsulated with 1mm of a short against other parts of the board, and mains wiring that is an embarrasment. It says "Caution - Risk of electric shock, Dry location only" on the outside, and I'd believe it. There is no isolation of the mains side and the mains wires are badly soldered and could quite likely to break off, hopefully disconnecting the mains power, rather than touching the transformer and sending the whole thing live. Definitely not something I'd be using.

The Li-Po plug-pack is somewhat better, being a properly regulated switch-mode supply (as suggested by someone earlier), and puts out quite a stable, well regulated voltage within Lipo charging specs on the 'scope. Giving it a heavy load causes it to pulse the output on and off to limit the current, so I'd expect that its probably quite safe to charge Lipo's with, and should bring them up to near-full capacity without drama.

The assembly quality is still crap (surprise surprise) with components badly mounted and the same sloppy mains wiring - as a bare-bones get the job done charger its not too bad, but if anyone decides to go for some good quality Lipo's I would include a "real" charger in the budget as well..