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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/2/2005 3:24 AM   
algutkin


 

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From: Orange, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Van:

Please keep those vidoes coming. Us beginners can all learn from your research. Can a full size C130 do a roll? Ha Ha

The objective is, I guess, to make the scale type planes fly similar to the full size. The only problem here is Souther California is that runway space is hard to find. Thus, we need to get that baby to jump into the air, then slow down to scale speed, similar to the full size craft. I think It's called using full military power (rattle the windows type) for takeoff. I only have the packed dirt area in a little league infield to work with, then the grass and cut weeds get too rough for a C47 or Transall.

Anyhow, after you finish with the mods, how about a on board camera. These big babys are perfect for multiple cameras.


Al


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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/2/2005 5:12 AM   
Overlander



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Status: offline 		Pretty cool, Larry. I suppose mine will end up looking something like that. How did you get the emplem printed and stuck on the plane?

-Todd

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/2/2005 5:35 AM   
codimasta


 

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Status: offline 		I had Kiko's make it for me...since I was in a rush ...needed it completed for the SuperFlyIn this week-end here in Las Vegas.(A little on the expensive side)
My I suggest: Stan@rcdecals.com ( He is very reasonable)
Send me your email address and I send further info. My email: paiv@wizard.com


Larry
AMA 11269

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/3/2005 12:17 AM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Larry,

Your Coast Guard 'Poly-Hauler' looks great. I can' wait to see it in person and compare flight characteristics. The Superfly is not this weekend though...it's on the 12th and 13th of November.

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/3/2005 12:44 AM   
codimasta


 

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Status: offline 		Someone ask about the C160 flying in the wind..Flew today..winds 10 to 12 mph...no problems on the take off or landing....matter a fact it lands just great in the wind....So far I have loop it and rolled...stall turn...flies just great.
Van, I fly on the week days only....maybe I can sneak in on a Sunday...what time?

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/3/2005 4:39 PM   
algutkin


 

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Status: offline 		Van, Codimonster, Where exactly is the Fly In, is it Las Vegas?


Please provide the dates and address for my GPS. Have video camera, will travel.

thanks
Al gutkin

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/3/2005 4:52 PM   
codimasta


 

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Super Fly In
12 & 13 Nov @ 9:00 am
All pilots must show proof or current AMA membership

Larry
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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/3/2005 8:34 PM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Larry,

I'll just look for you at Superfly IV. I normally fly at the north field on Saturday, and the electric field (school yard) on Sunday. I don't fly my big stuff at the school, just the park fliers and warmliners. I can't wait for Superfly...

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/4/2005 2:03 AM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		I just tried some 10x5 APC props vs my 11x5.5 props on my AXI 2820-10s. I dropped my amps from ~32 per motor to ~28 per motor. Of course this also dropped the amps some, but there still feels like there's lots of power. I think it'll fly fine with less than 3/4 throttle. This setup should prove a little easier on the battery and a little longer flight. I was getting around 10 minute flights with 4000 mah used out of a 6000 mah battery. I'll keep tweaking up the run time for average flight time per battery charge.

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/4/2005 3:18 PM   
algutkin


 

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Status: offline 		You guys got me confused now, geeze, do I have to re-read the whole thread. Lets see where are we.

One guy built the C160 but had a really bad flight, ESC out and stall.
Another guy was just finishing his plane.
The next guy got the wrong color and he sanded and painted the whole thing so he could end up with his favorite color, white.
Next, came the discussion about he Fly In, also discussions on amps vrs smaller props, all using 2820 AXIs.
Then came some really nice still pics and a short video of a C160 doing a barrel roll.
The discussion about the insignia followed.
The Fly In dates were established.
Some really nice pics on a white C160 taking off.
Arrangements were made for two guys to meet at the Fly In.
One of you guys wears a funny hat when he flys, which one? Brief Observation, I would expect a guy that flys a C160 to be wearing a baseball cap that says John Deere, or some tough guy insignia.

Two questions. Who is the guy wearing the funny hat? Codimonster or Van. And are one of you guys, the guy that originally crashed on the first flight due to ESC failure. That's what happens with twins, they really are not safer that single engine planes.

Oh heck, one other question? I finished most of mine. Balancing and weigh in came out perfect for me. My 2820/10s draw 26 amps with 9X6s, the amp draw is 30 using 10X6s, looks like the engines all run the same....My first taxi run with the smaller props disclosed a major problem. The engines have almost too much torque, I just couldn't get those set screws to hold the props. Question..Do we really have to file flat spots on the sharts? Today is Friday for us that still work, it's a happy day today.

Take care, remember the weather is supposed to be good in Vegas this weekend, so how about some more videos. Excuse the typo errors, have to rush into the office today in order to celebrate Thank God it's Friday.
Al

< Message edited by algutkin -- 11/4/2005 3:23 PM >

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/4/2005 5:07 PM   
Overlander



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Status: offline 		Hey Al,

T.G.I.F.

You absolutely must grind flats on the shafts if you are using set-screw type adapters. Collet adapters are my favorite because they tend to run perfectly true and dont need flats. If you are using the AXI motors, the AXI mounting kit creates a 6mm output shaft and allows you to use standard spinners.

I plan on wearing either my Monster Garage ball cap or a large viking helmet during my maiden if anyone cares.


I have finished my lowering of the LG and it looks good. I might have some trouble with 'taint-scrape on landings though.

Because of my anal retention, I decided to remove the red wingtips and blue leading edge covering. This was probably a bad idea because I have no idea how to cover wing tips. This also set my build schedule back a day.

I did some initial taxi testing with just the center wing section and it darn near got airborn even with a small wing!

I have weghed individual parts of the plane and it looks like it is going to come in at about 8 lbs even.

-Todd

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/5/2005 12:14 AM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Okay, I'm the one with the 'funny' hat. It does not say John Deer either. It says "Isla Mujeres" I bought it in Mexico a couple years back and have used it to fly since. FWIW, the only time I wear a hat is when I fly and I can't fly (doesn't feel right) without a hat on. I like my 'funny' hat because it provides 360 degree shade around my head in the blistering Las Vegas sun and heat...helps keep from getting "red neck" disease. ;-)

I use the collet style prop adapters as they do seem to have a better grip than the set screw type. I got mine from Hobby Lobby. They have two different ones for the 5mm shafts...one uses 8mm threads (way to big) and the other is 6mm thread (which fits normal props and spinners just fine).

I am not the one who had a speed control drop out for a crash and burn. I did find something odd when testing my amp draw though. Using my Astroflite Whatt Meter between the battery and speed controllers I get to above 2/3 throttle and one of the motors starts to slow down then drops out altogether. When I remove the Whatt Meter I don't have this problem and the motors run strong through the entire throttle range. I guess the meter is dropping enough voltage that causes a controller to shut down. Once shut down the other motor runs fine and the voltage drop reduces with only one motor running. Soooo...I'm not worried about it and just checked my draw on each motor individually. This gives me a good idea what my motor/prop/battery are doing. I'll try mine again with the 10x5 props and lower amps compared to the 11x5.5. I'll likely keep that if I'm happy with flight performance (which I'm sure will be no problem).

Lastly, I'm getting new kitchen appliances this weekend so I'm not sure how much flying I'll be able to do. I should have at least one day of flying and will try to get some more flight videos. I'm lookinf forward to see what it does with flaps and a more rearward C/G.

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/5/2005 1:34 AM   
algutkin


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for posting guys. Now, I almost have my hats straight.

The set screw problem was really getting to me. I finished the craft, balanced it, put the wing on, hooked everything up and at 11PM took it out in our quiet cul de sac for a taxi test. Everything sounded good for about a minute of running the props up and down. The motors made an aufull sound, then the screech was unbearable, the motors actually shut down. So, I thought I ruined the motors. Now everything is apart, I was so tired that I started thinking stupid things, like I burned out the ESC and the motors. Looks like it was just the set screws slipping.

Thanks for taking what I said in humor, that's the way I meant it.
Al

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/5/2005 3:20 AM   
Overlander



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quote:

ORIGINAL: algutkin

Thanks for posting guys. Now, I almost have my hats straight.
...

Thanks for taking what I said in humor, that's the way I meant it.
Al


Humor? There is nothing funny about my viking helmet. With the two big horns on the sides, it is all business ....


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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/5/2005 4:30 PM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Overlander,

Your Poly-Hauler looks great. My GSP one sits a little higher than yours, but not as high as your did originally. I don't think you'll have any issue with paint scrapes. While it does look low to the ground there's plenty of clearance (as there's no 'spring' to the landing gear). The four bladers look awesome. Let us know how they work.

When I got my Poly-Hauler I got the camo version (not what I originally wanted). I stripped everything down and covered. By your comment I'd say you haven't built many/a lot of kits. In my case, I've been building for better than 15 years so the recovering job was no problem. Covering is an learned art. My advice, put the covering on as tight as you can before shrinking it and use higher heat and lots of stretch going over the curved wing tips. The instructions with the covering are really pretty good, so follow them and practice, practice, practice.

On the up side, my appliance aren't being delivered until later this afternoon. The car is packed and I'm going 'Poly-Haul'n' shortly!!!!

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/5/2005 11:58 PM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Got some more flights on the Poly Hauler today. With the 10x5 props and the 6000mah battery about 3000mah for ~10 minutes flights at just over half throttle (all the Poly Hauler needs to fly nicely). I've still got to work on my landings though. Below is a link to today video footage.

With the 2.9" c/g I didn't notice any difference in my needed up trim. I'm going to shim the LE up some on the next flights and see what that does. I do enjoy this plane and now just have to work on getting it tweaked in. The addition of a functional cargo bay, later on, would be a blast!!!!

Click here to watch C-160-Poly-Hauler

< Message edited by Van -- 11/5/2005 11:59 PM >

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 6:18 AM   
algutkin


 

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Status: offline 		Van:

Nice of you to take time out from the install of appliances to shoot some more videos. I'm not ready to fly mine yet, when I fly it will really difine the meaning of the word sucks. Thats why I fly alone and often chicken out when the the first thing goes wrong.

I converted a Polk C47 which I really want to fly first, then further modify the Transall C160 based upon the C47 flights and also your reasearch. That I why I like your videos, you are actually doing the preliminary research flights. I'm such a crappy pilot that I really don't like the research flights, I'd have to get over the shakey nees first. One time flying a heli I got so nervous that I leterally threw the controller to my son so he could land the thing. Anyhow, I will probably do the flaperon change to the C160 based upon your video. I also just got some 3 bladed 9X7 props, I like the feel of the low end.

Here is what I noticed from your video and research. It looks like you are set up for top end. You go fast, but, the take off run seems long, specially in the first takeoff video. I'm kinda thinking that the C160 should be able to fly slower. Ya know, a lower stall speed. I'm also thinking that smaller props will help the low end and allow the bird to hang from the props when landing. This will give the feeling of a slower landing speed and a shorter run on takeoff. I picture a slow, power on landing, dragging it in with full flaps. I believer it's called a short field landing. I can talk a good game, but, flying RC with only eye hand coordination is easy to talk about, but not so easy to accomplish.

Based upon what I see in the movies, an all terrain cargo plane needs to be able to fly into undeveloped landing strips. That means drag the plane in just above stall speed, flare out close to the ground, kill the power, plop down, and stop short. Unload the cargo, flip the bird around, take off using very little runway. What does the plane need to do this, big wings, big engines, big flaps, sturdy landing gear. Answer, the Transall C160 needs flaps, the 2820/10 motors are big enough, and if the wings are true to scale, they have enough area. I guess I want to help make your birds perfect, so i can just copy you.

Al

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 9:26 PM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Bummer on today's flights. My Poly Hauler is no more. I flew it twice today with no problems. On the third flight it kept banking left on me. I tried to setting up for landing, but it stalled out and went pretty much nose first. On the up side, the batttery, motors, and radio gear appear to have come out unscathed except for a light covering of desert dust. Now, to figure what happened...

As I look back I remember I kep dropping a motor when testing my draw with an amp meter. I did not seem to have the same problem without the amp meter connected so I didn't worry about it. I'm using CC35 speed controls set for a 9v cutoff. I think my twitching problem was caused by a motor shutting down and then not coming back up. What sucks is I had thought about reducing the cutoff voltage a little more to prevent just such a problem. I guess I should have done it, vs just thinking about doing it. I still need to check my equipment, but think I already know what happened.

I haven't given up on the C-160 yet. I think I'll get another (all white one) and do this again. I can use the remains of the first fuse come up with a working cargo door.

Al, as I figured it, the wing loading on the C-160 is in the 33 oz/sq ft range. This means its not going to be a great floater. I had plenty of power with my motor configuration. I liked the longer, slowly advancing throttle take offs just to listen to the motors winding up. I was getting better in figuring out flap landings, but now....well, I guess I can't for a while. Now, maybe on #2 I'll bash in some flaps on the inboard wing panel and keep the outer ones as ailerons, or maybe even slave them in a little for even more flap action. Well see...

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 9:56 PM   
Overlander



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Status: offline 		Wow Van, sorry to hear that. She was a beauty.

Of course we all know how you feel.

If it is any consolation , today I crashed a brand new mini Katana shortly after the owner (who happens to be the owner of the LHS and my part time boss) handed me the controller. He will have a new one by Thursday as I intend to replace it. Last Sunday I crashed someone eleses plane also. A disturbing tend.........

-Todd



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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 10:40 PM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the condolences. Your story reminds me of why I don't like to fly other's planes. I don't mind watching, but don't want the controls. I don't mind maiden flights on my plans, but don't like doing them on some elses (for the above reason).

I've got a bid in on another C-160 on ebay. If I don't win I'll just buy one (they're at a very reasonable price vs the GSP ones). I was hoping to show this thing off at the electric flyin next weekend, but, oh well. I'm in the process of stripping down my remnants now. I didn't even get a stripped servo...go figure. The wing itself is reasonalby repairable. The fuse...well...it's mostly crunched up fiberglass and while it might be repairable I don't feel like messing with it.

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 11:09 PM   
EFisch


 

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Status: offline 		Van,
Sorry to hear about the C160. I lost 2 of the C160's. A couple of weeks ago I had a great five minute flight. I came in low and slow to see how she would sink for a landing and then did a WOT pull out. As I was pulling out my left motor started pulsing and I was unable to recover. I still don't know what happened but I am thinking one of the cells that I used may have had a problem. I can't check it because 2 of the cells were distroyed in the crash. The 1 remaining Cell only had about 1200 mah's used. (3s3p 6000 mah kokams)

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 11:11 PM   
codimasta


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry about the Poly-Hauler (Where did you get that name?)
Did you get the upgrade from Castle (auto Lipo setting?)
One of my speed controls did not have it...had to reprogram it...it auto sense how many cells you have and sets the cut-off.
I had plan to fly two 160's in formation......now I guess I am alone..

Larry
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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 11:27 PM   
Van


 

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Status: offline 		Larry,

One of the guys at the North field called it the battery hauler. I took off that and called it the Poly Hauler since that's what it did; haul Li-Poly batteries around the sky.

I did have my CC-35s on the auto Lipo settings. I think one was just shutting down before the other when the voltage dropped. I think if I set them for ~8.5v shut down it wouldn't shut down. I was flying a freshly charged battery on it's second lap around the field when it went in. The battery shouldn't have dropped to low, but??? I'm cycling the pack now, but it appears to be fine. I'll think I'll setup a test rig and try different configuration props, battery setups, amp draw etc while waiting for Poly-Hauler #2.

I'll see you at Superfly and see just how yours does.

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/6/2005 11:40 PM   
Edd Spidell


 

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Status: offline 		Van,

I also am sorry to hear about your C-160. Your next one will be better... On other notes, yes, it did snow here on October 30th, about one inch, just for the record. Also, I have included some photos for Algutkin, on the Polk (it don't fly stock) C-47 with Aveox brushless 1409/4 with 4S2P 2100mA Kokam's.

I am starting on the cargo ramp this week, the wing/wiring/lighting is all done. The plane will be detailed as a "SpecOps" bird.

Regards gentlemen,

Edd

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RE: Transall C-160 - 11/7/2005 12:08 AM   
algutkin


 

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Status: offline 		Van, I'm really sorry to hear about your crash.

Early this morning, I drove 125 each way today to fly three of my planes in the desert. My C47, which is the test bed for the C160, just flew great. I chickend out with the DC3 so it just went for a ride inside the vehicle. Tell you the truth, my knees were shaking and it took some warm up flights with my single engine Sportster to build up confidence. I talk a good game, but, I'm not that good of a RC pilot. Based upon what I have seen with your flights, and the motor problem, I'm really not that eager to fly the C160 yet. I kinda get the feeling that the C160, even at 7lbs, isn't able to fly slow. I'll compare the wing loading of the C47 with the C160 and try to come up with something. The C47 is so similar, except for the tailwheel, and the C47, at 6 lbs, glides with power off and props windmilling. What a sweet bird it ended up being. After getting the C160 and reading this thread I expected the Transall to be even better. It certainly looks better.

My wife needed help with paint samples and I lost a very long post to you, this is the short one. The story ends with me getting my confidence back and decided to end the flying day with one more flight of the Sportster. I failed to extend the transmitter antenna and the Sportster bit the dust from over 100 feet up. Straght down at full speed. Now that's the kind of crash that I like, a real spectacular one to thrill the crowd. Only there was no crowd, it was just me alone, so, I laughed anyway. Glad you are getting another C160, the build time will be much shorter this time. Don't forget those big flaps.

Someone forgot to tell us that today was CRASH DAY. Isn't Crash Day a new Monday holiday when it falls on Sunday?

Al

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