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Re: AMA - 10/18/2002 4:03:19 AM   
BernieG


 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Bowles
BUT the fact is AMA is looking out for the HOBBY'S best interest and not the individuals . Even though there are many things we would like to see happen, they may not always be the most responsible and could potentially hurt our hobby, for example rules of Model weights and sizes and perhaps speed. . [/QUOTE]

Honestly, I have VERY SERIOUS doubts about this statement. I do think the AMA look out for its OWN interest, like many big organisation going out of control.

most of you, guys, don't have anything to compare with. I have, as I have been belonging to the "federation francaise d'aero modelisme" for about 35 years before the AMA. it is extremely surprising, coming from a country where we have laws and reglements for everything, to the country of freedom, to discover there is MORE reglements and limitations here in our activity than in Europe, and LESS protection of our flying fields and frequencies !

Sorry, but the AMA should be the most advanced and powerfull organisation of his type in the world, because of the sheer numbers here, and IT IS NOT ! So something must not be right....

Bernard.

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 26

AMA - 10/18/2002 4:39:04 PM   
Dave Bowles


 

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		And what Evidence is there that the AMA is only looking out for itself and has become some sort of Evil Empire?

There is no question that any organization has to do unpopular things from time to time to protect itself and those it represents. Just as the Politicians don't always vote in the direction we elected them to . As any recreational activity Model Aviation will always come second to any type of commerce, we Have a need for someone to represent us and so far AMA and the people we elected to it are the only ones willing to give up their time to do it. I am sure there are some folks that have let their so called "position" go to their head but even at that I believe they still have the hobby's best interest at heart, I think the last Election said alot about who the members what representing us when the people that did vote reelected Dave Brown for president. Obviously there were many Like me that didn't trust the alternatives and I did not feel the others did have the best interest of the hobby first and foremost in their minds. (thats another subject) .

Unfortunately , The number AMA has (approx 170,000) is not that much in the big picture, we are a recreational hobby that will always come second to any industrial organization.

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 27

Why did the AMA - 10/18/2002 7:52:08 PM   
Taildrager


 

Posts: 921
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Oregon, IL, USA
Status: offline 		What evidence Dave wants to know:, can you fly at our national flying site in Dec, Jan, Feb comfortably, the national headquarters was not picked with its members in mind. Dave you do not remember the other organization that was stared to represent us, and AMA's response, really neighborly, and about the reelection of Dave B. he really got out the vote, 1 in 10 voted if i remember correctly, In my mind AMA is so out of control no one really cares what goes on in Muncie, and the only reason to belong is to be able to fly at local AMA sanctioned field & events.

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 28

goooooooooooooooooooooo - 10/18/2002 8:06:07 PM   
dennis1943



Posts: 518
Joined: 12/25/2001
From: cross, SC, USA
Status: offline 		wat to go taildragger you hit the nail on the head, i am glad that the gentleman is in the minority, lets change someone


dennis1943

_____________________________

dennis1943

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 29

AMA - 10/18/2002 10:08:27 PM   
Dave Bowles


 

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		1st- I do know about the SFA , They cut their own throats, They tried to Hammer the AMA with FALSE accusations and lost and got nailed on the counter .

2nd- AS I stated " the people that did vote" wanted Dave Brown, It is not the AMA's fault that 90% of the members really don't care or are just to Lazy to do so.

3rd- I wouldn't matter where they put the Headquarters, the same number of people would be complaining , Needless to say they picked a spot where the cost of business or living is reasonable. Even if they had it up for vote , they would have had to narrow it down to a few places which the majority would never agree on. and whos to say it wouldn't have ended up in the same spot anyway, I really don't care where it is, I will visit someday but I am no no hurry.

4th- In what way are they out of control ?

5th- There is not a Club out there that is forced to be chartered by AMA, IF a club wanted to search out another insurance carrier they are out there, YES it will probably cost MUCH MORE, According to many posts here the AMA insurance is worthless so you really don't need it anyway , Everybody has home owners liability coverage don't they ? Clubs CHOOSE to use AMA because it is the best CHOICE. I flew for years without AMA Until I realized I was not helping the Hobby what so ever and decided to start doing my part to keep this one of the most fun and creative hobbies around. If I had an objective for the AMA it certainly would not be to make it what I wanted but to do what is best for the hobby and organization as a whole. I is very hard to separate Personal Preference from the good of the community. I am not ready to sacrifice the amount of my time that would be needed to be a deciding officer, and I thank we owe a little gratitude to SOME of the folks that do.


I am by no means saying we should all be sheep although it appears 90% are content or we would have a bigger vote turnout. If you want changes, the first change must be with the Members involvement, Until then the elected people have no choice but to do what they feel is best . These Decisions may not always be the correct one or the most popular one .

If there is some sort of corruption going on then lets hear the Specifics and quit Guessing and assuming , and start getting it corrected.

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 30

Re: AMA - 10/19/2002 12:20:59 AM   
MikeL



Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/8/2002
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Bowles
It is not the AMA's fault that 90% of the members really don't care or are just to Lazy to do so.[/QUOTE]

Isn't it? You'd think an organization created to serve the needs of its members would have a vested interest in those members having an interest in its affairs. Overwhelmingly, we don't. What's that say?

To me it says that 90% of the members are there only because their clubs require it for insurance purposes. AMA leadership refuses to acknowledge that, and continues to believe they are serving some higher purpose. They're out of touch.

Whatever happened to this topic being about why the helicopter column wasn't in the magazine?!?

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 31

Why did the AMA - 10/19/2002 3:28:01 AM   
Taildrager


 

Posts: 921
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Oregon, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Well when no AMA official ever comes to your local field in over 5 years, when the AMA loses your hard earned dues in the stock market, when the AMA President Dave Brown will not come on line to answer questions in the last presidential election, and oh I do believe it matters greatly where the national headquarters are located. A mid winter national contest would be a great service for the members, but again the AMA has dropped the ball. Now they have teamed up with RC Airport, a on line site with how many hundred members, as opposed to RCU with more than 16,000 and growing each day, with industry reps on duty to answer questions. this is only a few of the things that come to mind as to why AMA is out of control, and out of touch with its members............. Now why wasn't that Chopper report in the last issue of AMA's rag.

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 32

AMA - 10/19/2002 3:58:41 AM   
Dave Bowles


 

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		1- I have lost thousands in the market so far but plan on making it back in time, I am sure the AMA will do the same.

2- I don't blame Dave for not coming to any of these forums given the immaturity and rudeness of SOME (NOT ALL) of posters here, I sure would not want to weed threw all the useless BS to get to the serious material, shoot , the manufacturers reps that come here practical get tared and feathered at times.

3- I think the Heli print question has been answered, There probably wasn't one to print.

4- as for your rep not making his rounds , take it up with him. Keep in touch with him threw Email . Don't wait for him to contact you.

5- There are no rules stating a national event must be at the Muncie site. Put in a proposal for one at some site further south or where ever.

6- DID the AMA actually say they lost money in investments or did they say they fell short of expected gains.

< Message edited by Dave Bowles -- Oct 20 2002 2:25AM >

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 33

Re: AMA - 10/19/2002 4:08:50 AM   
MikeL



Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/8/2002
From: Bloomington, MN, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Bowles
I don't blame Dave for not coming to any of these forums given the immaturity and rudeness of SOME (NOT ALL) of posters here, I sure would not want to weed threw all the useless BS to get to the serious material, shoot , the manufacturers reps that come here practical get tared and feathered at times.[/QUOTE]

Such is the burden of elected office, eh? He's making the choice not to use a two-way channel of communication with his constituents. For some reason only one VP on the EC does. Ask yourself if that is reasonable in this age of easy and convenient communication. Is a bit of their time too much to ask?

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 34

Why did the AMA - 10/21/2002 3:55:04 AM   
RC-INSANE



Posts: 18
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Tipp City, OH,
Status: offline 		Dave,

I couldn't agree with you more. From what I have seen, at times, there are people flying r/c airplanes who could probably benefiet from an AMA membership, especially if they were to trouble themselves to read and practice the rules and regulations found therein. It would be tough to give a reasonable argument against most of them. They are all designed to enhance the safety and pleasure of our hobby. If one were to think about it, the insurance offered with an AMA membership is quite a deal and I can't imagine that it would be prudent to fly with out it.

Jim Whitaker AMA 699498

_____________________________

Sunny summer days and gentle breezes........ Oh Yeah!!!!

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 35

Why did the AMA - 10/25/2002 8:26:49 AM   
Sloflyer


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/19/2002
From: Clinton, MO, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by A4HawkPilot
I hear ya visioneer. I think the mag is crap. Bunch of old timers with the free flights and control line. Sure there are jets, and helis, but then there is control line scale, control line racing, control line aerobatics, blah blah blah. [/QUOTE]

Just my opinion, but I enjoy seeing what is happening in areas outside my main interest which is RC Sport and Slope flying. If we want to build and maintain the membeship it is appropriate to cover all aspects of the model airccraft hobby. For example, U Control. There is a revival in this area and it is a cheap way for new flyers to get into the hobby.

SloFlyer

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 36

Why did the AMA - 10/30/2002 1:01:44 AM   
F106A



Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Dave,
In response to your comments:
1: You may have lost money but you made a decision to invest in whatever stocks you chose, I did not choose the stocks or even approve of the investments, in fact I (the membership)was not consulted about any of this.

2: You will never get a straight answer from DB or most of the people on the EC. Everything is phrased in generalities or excuses given why they can't answer. Since DB seems to be President for life, he really doesn't have to respond or answer to anyone. If you know DB you will know he's real good in the transmit mode and not so good in the receive mode.
The President of the US can only serve two terms, however the Predident of AMA can serve as long as he wants.

4: You would think that the VP's would want to "beat the bushes" and get with the members and clubs in their district. Guess not.

If a group of guys get together and get their own field and insurance they better not let AMA find out about it. They'll do the same thing to them that they did to SFA. I know the SFA saga first hand, I knew Elliot for MANY years, and I am well aware of all the things AMA did to keep their monopoly on model aviation.

When you say the EC are doing what's best for Model Aviation, ask yourself how many of these guys have built and/or flown any model airplanes recently. Not many I'll bet, so how can they know "what's best"? Most don't seem to have a clue of what's going on "out at the field".

DB and the EC know that 90% of the membership could care less what they do, it's all about insurance for them, and the other 10% can be ignored and therefore they can carry on with their agenda's.

I agree with a post on another thread that their first priority is to maintain AMA's tax status. I guess it's always about money.

In closing, the average age of members is supposedly 60, so in 10-15 years none of this will matter, most of us will be gone and model aviation will be a shell of what is now.
Regards,
Jon

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 37

AMA - 10/30/2002 11:06:35 AM   
Dave Bowles


 

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		I hear the term that the EC has lost touch with the real M/A world quite often, What examples of this do you have ? How do you know they are no longer active hobbyist, to be honest if I was on the EC , or a VP I would not have much time for building or flying ether, I barely find time for it as it is.

Dave Brown will probably be pres. for a long time, at least until somebody more worthy of the position comes along, and the membership takes the time to vote for them. So far I haven't seen anyone come along that I trust more than Brown.

I've been part of a non- AMA field, flew for years without AMA, AMA didn't give us any problems what so ever. .

Enough of the SFA Crud... They cut their own throats and if you are familiar with it you already know it.

(in reply to Furyflyer2)
       Post #: 38

Why did the AMA - 10/30/2002 11:22:01 AM