RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary  
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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 8:13 PM   
Details 4 Scale


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for all the excellent pictures John. I love the pic of the F-100 above. I just can't seem to get any of the guys that are using my slotted chute to send me any pics, so this is a real thank you from me. Everyone wants to see pics of the chutes and well, I tell them Ummm. I don't have any. Now I do!!! Thanks again for doing such a great job.

Best Regards,

Dan Gill

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 8:31 PM   
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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 9:26 PM   
Strykaas



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quote:

at lowest possible airspeed


Is it part of the 'rules' ? Do judges take this into account ? If that is the case, then I couldn't have imagined more stupid rules. There are many ways to show off your flying skills, other than slow speed passes. I really feel sick when I realize this beautiful panther is gone.

Thanks for this GREAT coverage. We can't thank you enough .

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 10:03 PM   
FliteMetal



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Status: offline 		I would not go so far as to call it stupid... ..just not necessarily participant friendly. Then again, these people are out to establish the best...obviously at any cost the far side of the zero line.

Actually its simply an element of the manditory flight maneuvers. A flight past at 20' to 30' is traditionally a required maneuver for FAI as well as AMA/TG. I imagine the slow flight past is so judges can view the "dirty" condition flying ability of the pilot whom would have known this was going to be required and have practiced many, many times in preparation. Matters not how much practice you do if your airframe looses its ability to sustain flight due to a hatch departing while in flight.

We in the US tend to think in terms of not placing a model in harms way, unnecessarily... This does not appear to be the case with required maneuvers at this event. When in Roman... I prefer FAI to AMA because it sets explicit positioning requirements for the entry and exit position of the airframe rather than leaving that to the discreation (good or bad) of the pilot. If you don't initiate and terminate dead center for the most part....kiss your butt (read as score) good bye.





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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 10:26 PM   
MMallory


 

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Status: offline 		I wouldn't call the requirement stupid either. Although I bet the stall speed is higher due to the hot humid weather. I too am sorry to see so many great models lost.

Mark M.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 10:41 PM   
Gordon Mc



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How do the judges know that the model is being flown at the "lowest possible airspeed" ? i.e how do they know whether someone is 2mph over the stall speed, vs 5mph, or 10, etc ?

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 11:06 PM   
MMallory


 

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Status: offline 		Gordon,

I would hope the judges are qualified. I thought I read earlier they were the same people who did the demo flights to show the required maneuvers. I would feel more comfortable being judged by someone who can do what they are judging.

Only the pilot MAY know the lowest possible speed for his plane in the given conditions.

Mark M.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 11:48 PM   
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Status: offline 		Not sure in which thread to ask this question, but whilst we're talking about judging, can somebody answer this question?

When static judging, is there any reduction in scores if the model has removeable fins/tailplanes/nosecones (necessary for transport/storage etc) which result in an obvious 'joint line' that the fullsize clearly wouldn't have??

Would really like an answer to this if anyone actually at the masters knows/can ask?!

Thanks,
Mark

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 11:54 PM   
Dave Presta


 

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Status: offline 		C'mon guys, start a new thread. We all know how these discussions go, dont take up precious picture posting pages to talk about this. Please

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 11:56 PM   
specialFX



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Status: offline 		Hi boys!

Nowhere in the rulebook is stated "lowest possible airspeed":
from the F4J rulebook (ed.2004):
Slow Flight - The model approaches straight and level, above the centreline of the runway and
parallel to the runway at a height of 10 - 15 metres, with landing gear (and flaps, spoilers, etc.,
if fitted) already extended. The model will fly at just above landing speed, and continues for a
minimum duration of 10 seconds, centred on the judges' centreline. (all types)
Seems to be a well thought out rule. But if something bad happens during "low and slow"... as in real aviation. And if the pilot misjudges the planes speed/attitude, he isn´t one of the best of the best.

btw, slow flight isn´t a mandatory manouvre.

regards
Thomas

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/3/2005 11:57 PM   
FliteMetal



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc How do the judges know that the model is being flown at the "lowest possible airspeed" ? i.e how do they know whether someone is 2mph over the stall speed, vs 5mph, or 10, etc ?


There isn't a minimum airspeed element to this maneuver. Its relative to what the airframe speed is for the other maneuvers in the flight plan. Dirty passes are intended to provide evidence of slow speed capabilities of the pilot and the plane...not to a fatal point but more to an element of what would be an approach speed for landing. All too often a pilot seems destine to show how slow he or she can go...just to end up stalling. That's why I wrote earlier about not wanting to place an airframe in harms way unnecessarily in "most" events.

Proper down and dirty airspeed is one of those...if it looks right, it must be...observations. Scoring it... here's the FAI faults index for the straight flight maneuver which is the same but at prototypical speed:

Model aircraft should make a straight and level flight of at least 100 meters length centered on the judges’ position.

Faults:
1. Not a straight course (slight corrections are acceptable with a light aircraft)
2. Not constant height.
3. Not pass over the landing area.
4. Not centered on judges’ position.
5. Not parallel with the judges’ line.
6. Too short a distance (too long is not an error).
7. Model aircraft flight path not smooth and steady.
8. Too far away, too close, too high, too low.



Hope that helped explain what the maneuver is and how its judged.

As for your parting lines of airframe componenets it matters in FAI at "0" judging distances used there. At 15 feet away in AMA/USSMA you should be able to reduce the element of an abnormal or extra parting point...though I know of no one who when told of why one exists that would down grade for one being present by necessity of transport...


< Message edited by ScaleAero-RCU -- 8/4/2005 12:05 AM >


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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 1:30 AM   
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Status: offline 		John C , a big pat on the back for your photos and coverage, my condolences to Sung kim for the loss of his super Panther, you gotta remember all of us armchair warriors back home in the States who would never be able to see any of the action but for your efforts..... and now we can see hear and feel the warmth of the event over there , in your compositions .... flying in cyberspace...... then of course the monday morning quaterbacks will come out of the woodpile to tell us all how it should have done, or better still how they would have done it........the arguments will go on for ever, and without your pics we would be left to dark transatlantic telephone calls trying to glean some info from the depths of the iron curtain that was.................how the world has changed.... so little time ...some many airplanes......aahhh ! ..................... Keep up the good work, ......................Malcolm Kay

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 1:59 AM   
-JC-



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Status: offline 		Lets keep this thread about all the cool planes and people at the JWM please.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:10 AM   
-JC-



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Status: offline 		Is it just me, but are L-39's just cool or what?

Anyone tried counting how many where present? The organizers are talking about giving bonus points to contestants who show up with something unique.



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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:11 AM   
-JC-



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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:19 AM   
-JC-



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Status: offline 		Mirage III CS from Namibia. I'm not a big fan of black with gold trim, but this one actually looks good.



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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:21 AM   
-JC-



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Status: offline 		Team Qatar's Mig 15 in a fairly steep departure angle



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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:24 AM   
Joe C


 

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Status: offline 		Hi John,
I am so sorry for Sung, The Panther was a great jet. Please say hello to Sung and Henry. Joe. C

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:27 AM   
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Status: offline 		John, it's not just you.... L-39s ARE cool.... and a different scheme on just about every one I've seen (full size and model).

Great job on this thread.

Condolences to Sung Kim...... That Panther was a beautiful machine.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:33 AM   
-JC-



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Status: offline 		Hi Joe,

How are things back in L.A.? Yeah, it was a big bummer with the Panther. So much preparation, only to see the plane in a hundred pieces.

Oh well, we have already decided to aim for Ireland 07. Then I will be bringing a jet also. Tough to be here without being able to fly.

Sung and Henry says hi too. We just got back from the hotel bar. It's 3:30 am here, so time to get some sleep before the freekin church bells starts ringing at 6 am.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 2:45 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Christensen

Lets keep this thread about all the cool planes and people at the JWM please.



John

This is your thread and if you find any post not passing your litmus test, just PM the post # to me and I will tank it.

Again, thanks for the great job you are doing keeping us in the know of all the happenings.



Best Regards


Ben


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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 4:48 AM   
incomming


 

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Status: offline 		out of all the places the military took me Qatar is the one place that I would Love to go back to..... great pics if you can get a pic of team qatar..... intereested to see if it is anyone from the hobby when i was there...
Thanks
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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 4:50 AM   
Joe C


 

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Status: offline 		John,
L.A. has been a little boring since you guys have been gone. Some of those L-39's look great, we will have to talk about mine when you get back, some of those scale options are a must, have Henry look at some off them. Hope you guys continue to have fun considering Sung's loss. Take Care, Joe. C

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 4:53 AM   
Roger Shipley


 

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Status: offline 		The price that Sung Su Kim has paid is certainly worthy of recognition as he was the first potential contestant to indicate a very high probability of competing in the 6th JWM. His desired were explicated expressed at Florida Jets February/March 2004 when we initiated the effort for the US to return to the forum after a four year absence.
His early commitment gave us a beginning to offer the qualifier in September of 2004 as a prelude to the annual Ozark Mountain Jets Event in Sullivan Missouri.
This was so successful that the USA has a full 6 member team representing America in Hungary.
Sung, thank you so much for your early enthusiasm, subsequent prototype, final subject presented to the jet world and unfortunate loss. The time, fortunes, emotions and talent is to be recognized as an outstanding effort to represent our country at an international jet event...I'm betting he will return!

Your Friend, Roger

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/4/2005 5:18 AM   
jettset99



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Status: offline 		Yep Sung got the Ball Rollin,Sorry for the loss I know this thread has a couple guys local already getting ready for 07, John if you get a chance try and shoot a pic of my fellow Italians with their MB339 I think their are 3, all have scored really high in static even a 3rd place !!!. Ill get you a drink or two, when I come up to the shop when you guys get back.Thanks see ya soon.Paul

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