RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary

RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary
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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/17/2005 6:45 PM

ghost_rider

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Sorry guys but I did not notice this BS posting until few seconds ago.

SilentEYE, please note that this thread was solely created by JC to share the WJM event coverage and not for posting wild and unfounded accusations. If you have anything to gripe about, please open your own thread and go at it.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Regards

Ben

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/17/2005 9:43 PM

-JC-

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winfried Ohlgart

Hallo, to all jetpilots all over the world !!!
A big and hearty thank you to all of you who attended the World Masters in Hungary. The IJMC is proud of another successful Jet World Masters and we will go on with our work for the big jet family. We had an event which gives us all good memories of living in peace and harmony and beeing together with the best of the best in our fantastic sport ( I never say hobby !!!!).
In two years time I hope that you all are be back in Northern Ireland.
You all, pilots, helpers, supporters and sponsors are the winners of the 6th Jet World Masters.
Finally my compliments to the organizing team with his head Miklos. You all did a great job and set another milestone in IJMC history.
Happy Landings
Winnie

No, THANK YOU Winfried,

I am sure a lot of hard work and long hours has been put into the event by you and your team, and I am sure I speak for the whole US team when I say that you guys did an outstanding job.

And thanks for the comments in the PM. CD's are ready soon.

See you in Ireland for some more combat drinking...

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 1:16 AM

F900

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDCrashmaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc

Maybe silentEYE should become silentKEYBOARD ?

I think the idjot silentEye should become simply GUEST.

What a complete moron.

An IP check would be better....

John thanks for the great photos.... Since i'm from Ireland maybe there is a chance for me in 2 years lol

< Message edited by ghost_rider -- 8/18/2005 6:10 PM >

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 1:46 AM

DarkOps

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghost_rider

Sorry guys but I did not notice this BS posting until few seconds ago.

SilentEYE, please note that this thread was solely created by JC to share the WJM event coverage and not for posting wild and unfounded accusations. If you have anything to gripe about, please open your own thread and go at it.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Regards

Ben

(Moderator Jet & AMA forums)

Ben,

I will start another thread on this subject alone. It seems that while Mr. Christensen has told a story, there is a bit that he left out regarding a member of Team USA having the scores as well for static and protesting them before the event was over. This individual also did not have a picture or verifiable colors for his aircraft so throwing out the color scores directly aided him in obtaining the number 10 spot. Our sources our very credible, including several members of at least two other countries teams, a judge and an interpreter who overheard members of Team USA saying "John and Dave better get rid of those scores or we are in big trouble."

I will start a separate thread so the truth of what really happened can be told.

Regards,

E.J. Dickens

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 2:30 AM

t_burley

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilentEYE

quote:

ORIGINAL: ghost_rider

Sorry guys but I did not notice this BS posting until few seconds ago.

SilentEYE, please note that this thread was solely created by JC to share the WJM event coverage and not for posting wild and unfounded accusations. If you have anything to gripe about, please open your own thread and go at it.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Regards

Ben

(Moderator Jet & AMA forums)

Ben,

I will start another thread on this subject alone. It seems that while Mr. Christensen has told a story, there is a bit that he left out regarding a member of Team USA having the scores as well for static and protesting them before the event was over. This individual also did not have a picture or verifiable colors for his aircraft so throwing out the color scores directly aided him in obtaining the number 10 spot. Our sources our very credible, including several members of at least two other countries teams, a judge and an interpreter who overheard members of Team USA saying "John and Dave better get rid of those scores or we are in big trouble."

I will start a separate thread so the truth of what really happened can be told.

Regards,

E.J. Dickens

and this gets you off how?
why do you have to come in here with second hand info?
stupid nonsense again.

I see know reason for a "new" thread to spread more rumors here Ben?

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 2:31 AM

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John
thank you for all the WORK it took to do the Outstanding Job.
semper Fi
Joe
Silent eye....... Who cares,Get a life....... BTW what country did you represent

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 3:26 AM

Richard Buescher

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As a first time competitor at the JWM I was very pleased with the organization and the quality of competition that was present. Winnie and Mickey, you need to take a holiday, you and your crew worked very hard to put on a great show! I know the U.S. will have a team in Northern Ireland, I hope to be apart of it, if a position is available. I have learned so much about scale modeling and flying, I can't wait to apply it to future projects. Many thanks to you guys and your crew! Oh yeah Tom and Ros W. are great flight line directors!

< Message edited by Dustin Buescher -- 8/18/2005 4:10 PM >

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 3:45 AM

David Gladwin

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May I try and clarify this issue and relate what SOME of us who were present in Hungary did hear at first hand on this issue and perhaps put a lid on it.

I spent most of the time on the line taking photos but I was told by at least two pilots, from different teams, whose opinions I respect, that scores had been obtained illegally by a US team member. and that had led to a protest which led to revision of static scores and as a result some gained, some lost. I left that to competitors to sort out, none of my business as a non competitor, but the story , rumour, whatever, WAS circulating and being discussed in some quarters at least. That is a fact, ignore it if you wish. As Mr Dickens and I plus two pilots and probably all of their team members knew of the problem it is distinctly possible that quite a lot of other people were discussing it, too.

I left on Sunday having not heard anything to contradict the original story I had been told, so I was left with a slight impression, although unconfirmed, that perhaps there WAS some truth in it. That John has now explained the situation clarifies matters and explains how misunderstandings and lack of information may well have caused the original and now obviously incorrect story. That clear explanation should put an end to any suggestions of dishonesty and, in my view, completely removes the spectre of any impropriety by the US contingent, to everyones' benefit.

That said, it could be viewed that Mr . Dickens presented an opportunity for the truth of this matter to be revealed those who abused him may care to retract that abuse, he asked a relevant question and I think the US team has actually benefited from the clarification and explanation. Lets put the issue behind us and move on.

Great masters, best cameradie, best spirit and great models and flying in a superb location, and like the Sydney Olympics, it will be a hard act to follow but Athens gave it a very good shot. Perhaps Northern Ireland will do the same !

Regards,

David Gladwin.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 4:11 AM

ghost_rider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

That said, it could be viewed that Mr . Dickens presented an opportunity for the truth of this matter to be revealed those who abused him may care to retract that abuse, he asked a relevant question and I think the US team has actually benefited from the clarification and explanation.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

Hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!....... and why did he insist on:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilentEYE

It seems that while Mr. Christensen has told a story, there is a bit that he left out regarding a member of Team USA having the scores as well for static and protesting them before the event was over. I will start a separate thread so the truth of what really happened can be told.

Regards,

E.J. Dickens

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 8:14 AM

-JC-

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilentEYE

Ben,

I will start another thread on this subject alone. It seems that while Mr. Christensen has told a story, there is a bit that he left out regarding a member of Team USA having the scores as well for static and protesting them before the event was over. This individual also did not have a picture or verifiable colors for his aircraft so throwing out the color scores directly aided him in obtaining the number 10 spot. Our sources our very credible, including several members of at least two other countries teams, a judge and an interpreter who overheard members of Team USA saying "John and Dave better get rid of those scores or we are in big trouble."

I will start a separate thread so the truth of what really happened can be told.

Regards,

E.J. Dickens

E.J. Dickens,

So, you come in here and openly accuse the US Team of being dishonest and cheating!!! That sure takes some balls. Especially since you "Heard it from someone who was standing next to the brother of the bartender who's sister is friends with the guy who washes the other guys car" What a load of crap.

NOTHING DISHONEST happened.

Here is the ENTIRE story.

The static scores where available to ALL pilots after the first round of flying. We/I did not obtain them before they had already been posted on the board.

All US pilots had correct documentation. It was the judges that did not know their own rules. "You have to have a color photo" one judge said, "and since you don't have one, I am going to give you a 0 score for color". Well guess what... The rule book clearly states that an artists rendition can be used, so the judges had to admit that error and retract that score. Let me ask you this Mr. SilentEYE! How is that cheating?

As to protesting the scores before the event was over... DUH. It would not help muct to protest when you got home would it. At least there the judges had a chance to correct their mistakes. And, since the static scores are released after round 1, there is still plenty of time to protest.! How is that cheating?

The only thing that happened that caused all this was that I was given the individual scores by mistake. I did not know they where secret, and apparently the guy who gave them to me did not know either. So, what is the big deal? Don't you think it is better that the contestants who fly in from all over the globe and spend a ton of money on this event at least get a fair score? A mistake was clearly made by the judges (And admitted by them) and the error was rectified. What better solution could you think of?

Let me guess. You where probably friends with one of the guys who moved down a spot because of this and now you have an axe to grind. Try to think about it this way:
If the judges had not made a mistake and scored correctly, you would still be in the same spot, because the planes who deserved a higher score would have gotten it in the first place. SO, what is the big deal here.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 9:09 AM

Winfried Ohlgart

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Hallo again,
I do not understand what is going on here ! Nothing was illegal and nobody cheated in any way.
John asked our computer guy for a file of the static scores AFTER they were officially published. Unfortunatelly that guy made a mistake and gave him the file with all static scores of all contestants. Philipp Avonds informed me about that and we asked the US Team Manager, Steve Collins, to remove these files from all computers. This was immediately done and that was it.
We had during the competition every evening a teamleaders meeting with the attendance of judges. I was informed from several countries at the first day of the static judging that the first judge table made a mistake in not judging two sights of the models. I stoped static judging after the first 11 competitors and asked the judges to correct their mistake from now on and we decided to rejudge the models of these first eleven competitors, but only those two missing sights. This was done and nobody was complaining.
After static judging was over we had another discussion at the teamleaders meeting. This was about the proof of the colors. The judges had looked for stamped color plates to proof the colors and they downgraded all those who did not have those stamped plates. This was according to our rules wrong, because those stamped plates is only one possibility to proof the colors but the rules also allow others.
Everybody knows that static judging is the hardesd job at a World Masters. Our judges are human beeings and no machines, this means that mistakes were made and will be make also in the future. If mistakes are made the IJMC has to correct them in a most fair way for all competitors. We, me as a chairman, Philipp Avonds as the technical adviser of the IJMC and the judges decided therefore to give a 10 on proof of color to all competitors. All team managers agreed to this and there were again no complains at all.
To say it very clear: the team managers are the key persons for the organisers. They make their decisions for their team members.
For me and my board members those situations are sometimes difficult, but that is our job and we did and will do in the future everything that their are NO BAD FEELINGS on any IJMC World Masters or Competition. This is the IJMC slogan and this is what we are fighting for.
I hope very hard that now any stupid discussion on the items mentioned here by my will stop immediately. We had a phantastic Jet World Masters, a fair competition and a kameraderie which was unbelievable. Please do not destroy this with silly discussions.
Winnie Ohlgart
IJMC Chairman

< Message edited by Winfried Ohlgart -- 8/18/2005 12:27 PM >

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 3:59 PM

-JC-

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winfried Ohlgart

Hallo again,
I do not understand what is going on here ! Nothing was illegal and nobody cheated in any way.
Winnie Ohlgart
IJMC Chairman

This direct from the Chairman.
SilentEYE... Now may be a good time to briefly remove your foot from your mouth and apologize to the US Team.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Gladwin

I spent most of the time on the line taking photos but I was told by at least two pilots, from different teams, whose opinions I respect, that scores had been obtained illegally by a US team member. and that had led to a protest which led to revision of static scores and as a result some gained, some lost.

David,
Well, apparently you can't trust everything you hear on the flight line... Even from people whose opinion you respect

Now... Can we get back to the scheduled programming.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 5:40 PM

ianober

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Hey silentEYE, I am curious as how team Canada did? Oh, wait a second...................there was no team Canada. You need to remain a spectator and just enjoy the jets. Let the pilots handle issues with judging, as they did so efficiently. Boy, I bet you feel like a real a$$ right now, huh? Its ok to admit it, go ahead. We will respect you a little if you do at least. I think someone has forgotten what this event and sport is all about

. Thats too bad, please dont come to any events I will be at, thank you!!

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 6:37 PM

ghost_rider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winfried Ohlgart
I hope very hard that now any stupid discussion on the items mentioned here by my will stop immediately. We had a phantastic Jet World Masters, a fair competition and a kameraderie which was unbelievable. Please do not destroy this with silly discussions.
Winnie Ohlgart
IJMC Chairman

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 7:13 PM

DrDeath

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ROTFLMAO

Feel like you are drowning in your own embarrassment, hmmm

We should change your name Silenteye to blackeye since that is what you have now.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 8:28 PM

dribbe

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Winnie,

I sure appreciate your taking the time to post the truth here!

Others,

To clarify, no protest was made, or even considered by the US team on this issue.

We (competitors from ALL countries) were offered the opportunity to put some of our questions on documentation and scoring to a group including organizers, advisors, and judges. During the course of this meeting, it became clear that color was not judged according to the rules (short version), and the organizers/officials took it upon themselves to do their best to alieviate the problem the best way they could.

That was pretty stand up of them to do.
Again, no protest was even considered on this.

A thread of truth does not cut it when combined with a LOT of fabrication! Pretty sad the way this was presented... and re-presented.

Thanks again Winnie,
David

FWIW, I did not have a Zero in Color, I had 6's and 7's on my score sheets.
(Any benefit I obtained was FAIR and SMALL, and had little effect.)
My color documentation was published 3 veiw artist renditions of the aircraft with US FS#'s documented on them --> Genuine federal standard color chips cut from the FS Fan Deck --> matched paint on model.

This was clear in the written documentation, and breifed to the judges.

According to the rules, and all known standards, this is 'great' color documentation. (Full chain of published links to genuine government supplied chips). (It is much easer to paint your own chips, and have some dude put a rubber stamp on it.)

I also had FS 3x5 chips in the documentation (tucked away out of sight, but available), but they were obtained after the fan deck chips, so the color varies a little (goverment is not perfect). Therefore, fan deck chips were used.

Other parts of documentation and scoring need to be clarified, and of course, we will use the proper IJMC channels to improve this situation.

< Message edited by dribbe -- 8/18/2005 10:45 PM >

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 8:46 PM

DarkOps

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Christensen

E.J. Dickens,

So, you come in here and openly accuse the US Team of being dishonest and cheating!!! That sure takes some balls. Especially since you "Heard it from someone who was standing next to the brother of the bartender who's sister is friends with the guy who washes the other guys car" What a load of crap.

NOTHING DISHONEST happened.

Here is the ENTIRE story.

Mr. Christensen

While we are giving you time to tell THE WHOLE STORY and it seems like you are getting there, you know a lot more still has to be told.

You are also having a good time it seems trying to convice everyone to be on you side, this is ok, as one way or the other the whole truth will eventually be revealed.

Only you are the one who mentioned "cheating" or "conspiricy"............all we wanted was the story. Is there more you would like to tell us, or would you like to continue to wait for the rest of the facts to come out. (wise choice would be option A)

Perhaps you should be the one to apologize to your own team for putting them in jeapordy and causing this slight embarrassment.

The proper thing to do would have been to go to your team manager when you realized you had something that you were not supposed to have.............instead of giving that information to the team member who would have the most to gain by protesting his results.

Should I continue Mr. Christensen or will you?

With more news certainly to come,

E.J. Dickens

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 9:03 PM

LSF2298

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SilentEYE, if you have a story to tell, open a tread and tell it! Let it stand on it's own merits.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 9:18 PM

F106A

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Mr. Dickins,
Please re-read post #511.
Pretty much sums everything up, don't you agree?
Put a lid on it or open up another thread and stop trying to hijack John's.
Jon

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 10:36 PM

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Oh, by all means, bring it on. SilentEYE

I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to hide regarding the WJM.

You on the other hand obviously have a lot of third party information to share with the world. So far you have been proven dead wrong on all counts, but if you want to continue to embarras yourself, be my guest.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 11:49 PM

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Go get 'em John

And from a Google search:

SOUR GRAPES

In a famous fable by Aesop, a fox declared that he didn’t care that he could not reach an attractive bunch of grapes because he imagined they were probably sour anyway. You express sour grapes when you put down something you can’t get: “winning the lottery is just a big headache anyway.” The phrase is misused in all sorts of ways by people who don’t know the original story and imagine it means something more general like "bitterness” or “resentment."

Methinks our neighbor from the North suffers such a malady.

Tailwinds,

John

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/18/2005 11:58 PM

flyingrambo

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I have only just found this thread, but I am really impressed with John as he has made me feel like I was actually there!!! WELL DONE JOHN!!

SilentEye, I understand that you have opinions about this matter (everyone has opinions), but I personnally dont care as I wasn't there, and I had nothing to do with it, so I am happy to accept the final decision. So please just go and open up another thread, and leave us here in peace to talk about jets, jets and jets!!

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/19/2005 1:14 AM

David Gladwin

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David , John Etc. I was just trying to be the honest broker and explain how the situation was perceived by some of those present and how the misunderstanding probably occurred. I think your posts have absolutely clarified that and I still very much respect the opinions of those who told me what they had been told had happened, they just shrugged it off as no big deal.

I still think personal insults as made to Mr Dickens were unjustified he asked for an explanation of a situation which DID actually have an origin as you and Winnie have explained in full.

If you guys want to discuss it further then I leave you to it, I have more fun things to do, like getting this thing ready for first engine runs, the hydraulics are working perfectly and the new V5 ecus are in. Need to get the Mig finished in preparation for the arrival of the Air world Hawk, due soon.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

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RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/19/2005 4:46 AM

sengle

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John,

As a keen modeller all of the way over here in little old New Zealand, I very much appreciated your fantastic photos and coverage of the event. Normally we all have to wait for the magazines to come out several weeks later, with only a few colour photos, but yours and NightWalkers(Bryces) coverage was fantastic, and a good laugh. Thank goodness for high-speed Internet connections at work in the office! There were some awesome "models" displayed in all senses of the word!

Now I don't really want to get sucked into SilentEyes little game, as he ends up with more than his "5 minutes of fame", but I am curious at to why a new contributor/poster (only 3 posts and joined on 17th August) can be so 'informed' and obviously have such a personal vested interest in the proceedings? Yet, he hasn't even been bothered or been motivated to ever write anything before to the RCU forums? But he has so much to say now?? Seems strange.
I suspect he has regularly contributed before under a different name, and this new "non-de-plume" was dreamed up to hide behind solely for the purpose of discrediting you and/or the USA team. Without getting into name-calling, this wreaks of "Tall poppy syndrome" - which unfortunately we Kiwis have a tendency to do.

As my Grandfather used to say "If you haven't got something nice to say (about someone) then don't say anything at all"

Anyway, Cheers from NZ!

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(in reply to David Gladwin)

Post #: 524

RE: Christensens JWM Hungary Hi-Rez diary - 8/19/2005 6:12 AM

SDCrashmaster

Posts: 4040
Score: 110
Joined: 1/15/2002
Last Login: 11/26/2009
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline

Good post Sengle!

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Yeah, I use mixing... Balsa & Dirt. ©

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(in reply to sengle)

Post #: 525

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