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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/9/2005 12:19 PM   
tim_n


 

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Status: offline 		Men/women put it this way “exhaust is waste” and if U can use it to better the engine performance then it is not a waste of time.

Also I know there is always disadvantages of turboz and porting. I have built this motor to what “I” want. I am going to put it on an RC car and I want all top end speed cause I don’t want wheel spin everywhere I go.

just do a port and polish 4 ur self. might be surprised.

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/9/2005 12:41 PM   
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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/9/2005 4:41 PM   
carlosponti



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tim_n

Men/women put it this way “exhaust is waste” and if U can use it to better the engine performance then it is not a waste of time.

Also I know there is always disadvantages of turboz and porting. I have built this motor to what “I” want. I am going to put it on an RC car and I want all top end speed cause I don’t want wheel spin everywhere I go.

just do a port and polish 4 ur self. might be surprised.


simma down now!

if its what you want to do dont let a bunch of net nerds tell you any different just do your own thing and post a video of it. experimenting can be a fun hobby. though i think your soldier/welding skills needs some tune ups as well

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 5:43 PM   
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Status: offline 		i think this is cool i built a drag racer ( long rail top fueller type )with a 50cc chainsaw engine and go kart wheels on back it whas a bit nuts off the line real quick but i want to put a crank driven super charger on there or nos (ha ha ) my year 8 metal shop teacher just laughed at me and said not in his class a few years ago now , i wish i still had it i am inspired


< Message edited by wesg77 -- 9/12/2005 5:49 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 5:51 PM   
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ORIGINAL: tripp3d

whats a whipper snipper?

otherwise known as a weedwhacker, strimmer, trimmer , or cat snapper, big pole, engine on the top end, rotating spool of nylon line on the other

< Message edited by wesg77 -- 9/12/2005 6:17 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 6:32 PM   
4 stroken ron



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quote:

ORIGINAL: wesg77

i think this is cool i built a drag racer ( long rail top fueller type )with a 50cc chainsaw engine and go kart wheels on back it whas a bit nuts off the line real quick but i want to put a crank driven super charger on there



Yes, a crankshaft driven "SUPER CHARGER" could be made to work on a 2 CYCLE engine. An exhaust driven "TURBO CHARGER" will not get you any gain in performance. In fact it would probably decrease performance. Now, on a 4 CYCLE engine a properly engineered Turbo, and, or a super charger can get you a signifient performance increase.
Ron

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 7:01 PM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		Ron, just how does a crank driven supercharger negate the problems that hamper the use of a turbocharger on a piston ported two-stroke?

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 7:21 PM   
4 stroken ron



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ORIGINAL: Crusty

Ron, just how does a crank driven supercharger negate the problems that hamper the use of a turbocharger on a piston ported two-stroke?


NO, NO, now you are tring to spin (no pun intended) this thing, A better idea is for you to prove to us that your turbo charger DOES work.
Ron

< Message edited by 4 stroken ron -- 9/12/2005 7:22 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 7:40 PM   
av8tor1977



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Status: offline 		Well, excuse me but I have the same question. How would a supercharger be any better than a turbocharger on a two stroke engine? The problem of the blowdown period, and losing the charge out the exhaust would still exist. Besides, a supercharger takes power to run it!

AV8TOR

< Message edited by av8tor1977 -- 9/12/2005 7:42 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/12/2005 7:51 PM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		Ron...you better read the thread, Its not me that made the turbo...question still stands

< Message edited by Crusty -- 9/12/2005 7:52 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/13/2005 12:51 PM   
Willdo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: av8tor1977

Well, excuse me but I have the same question. How would a supercharger be any better than a turbocharger on a two stroke engine? The problem of the blowdown period, and losing the charge out the exhaust would still exist. Besides, a supercharger takes power to run it!

AV8TOR


Surely with a conventionally aspirated two stroke the blowdown problem is the same, - after all the transfer phase is essentially force charging the cylinder - isn't it?
A turbocharger also takes power to run it, - you don't get anything for nothing!
In a fourstroke with a turbocharger, although some of the exhaust pressure is caused by the residual gas pressure in the cylinder when the valve opens, power is used too when the exaust gases are also pushed out by the piston during the exhaust stroke.
In a two stroke, the pressure in the exhaust is again caused by the residual gas pressure in the cylinder as the exhaust port opens, helped by the pressurised fresh charge ( needing power to produce) from the crankcase via the transfer ports.

If a mechanically driven supercharger is used, naturally, power would have to be used to drive it.

If a turbocharger is being used, then some of the power to drive the turbine would come from the residual pressure in the cylinder, plus the pressure of the fresh charge (supercharge - needing power to produce) pushing the exhaust gases out.
So power will be used in one form or another, but what is important is the amount of gain you get from using some of the power. ( this is all beginning to sound like perpetual motion)
All very interesting, - maybe my ideas are a little simplistic and if you think that I'm incorrect, feel free to correct me, but make it stick!

RON,
When you said " properly engineered turbo", you sure hit the nail on the head!

CRUSTY,
Don't blame you for not wanting to take any responsibility for the construction of the original!

One thing is for sure, that machine didn't turn at anywhere near the revs it would be expected to, otherwise there would be schrapnel flying everywhere!


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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/13/2005 6:35 PM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		Ok,.... one last time for you, willdo......the problem is you cant really pressurise a cylinder when the exhaust port is open at the same time you are trying to pressurise it...get it?

I dont know how many more ways there are of explaining this...ive tried a few in this thread, but its not sinking in

< Message edited by Crusty -- 9/13/2005 6:37 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/13/2005 11:31 PM   
Willdo


 

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Status: offline 		CRUSTY, -Take it easy , - I'm not claiming to be an expert, just hoping someone will point out my fundamental mistakes ( which you are doing admirably, - and not only mine).

BTW, as I think more about it, there would be another problem, and that is, the crankcase being pressurised while the piston is at TDC and the leakage past the piston skirt to the exhaust port.

Hope that you'll relent a little, CRUSTY, and allow that observation, also allow my saying that the construction technique of the thing needs "a tuneup" (as CARLOS said as well). There you go, - please say I get some things right!

CARLOS
Long may the thread live, so everyone can contribute their thoughts, crazy or otherwise, just so long as they're prepared to be corrected, and if it makes people laugh, then so be it.

PS. Has Tim bowed out?



< Message edited by Willdo -- 9/13/2005 11:33 PM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/13/2005 11:55 PM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		Willdo sry, I am very grumpy old man in this thread ......Tonight I will try and find some stuff that suggests the opposite of what I believe...just to try and shut myself up

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:04 AM   
Rupurt



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Status: offline 		Crusty if the exhaust is under pressure the charge wont go out the exhaust port. How many times do I need to point this out before anyone takes notice?

Say you have a sealed room and the air inside was at 150kpa and another with the pressure at 100kpa, each one had an identical 2stroke piston ported engine in it which one do you think would produce more power?

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:10 AM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		sorry Rupert, but the exhaust needs to get out the cylinder, if you restrict the exhaust(raising pressure)...we all know what happens, you cant just pressurise from both ends, an engine is after all a pump, or did you have some sort of valve in mind?
So far I cant find a turbo 2-stroke that doesnt have valves
edit...your question..I believe the 150kpa room-engine would give a bit more power, but not because of higher pressure but increased oxygen density..Is this wrong?


< Message edited by Crusty -- 9/14/2005 12:17 AM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:23 AM   
Rupurt



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Status: offline 		No the turbine from the turbocharger adds backpressure(it could requir some more restriction though). The pressure from the compressor forces the charge in and balances out the backpressure from the exhaust effectively running the whole system at a higher pressure.

There is a book by Hugh MacInnes called Turbochargers. It has a very informative chapter on two stroke turbochargers. There is another problem that can occur with turbocharging these engines and that is the oil lowers octane rating and under the added pressure can cause detonation.

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:24 AM   
Rupurt



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Status: offline 		Why would the oxygen density be higher?

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:40 AM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		More oxygen (and everything else)....in a given volume. a very small (measurable even?) increase in power, is this thinking wrong?, I might be making a fundamental mistake on this.
Sorry, I still have to disagree that pressure/ restriction via the exhaust is of any value in this area, how do you un-restict the exhaust when you actualy want it to flow out sufficiantly without a valve?, you cant just leave it restricted, it will then have to do more work against the cranckcase pressure and more work to push out the exhaust..the whole cycle will get increasingly choked

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:42 AM   
Rupurt



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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:43 AM   
Crusty



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Status: offline 		My hat is poised at the ready...if it says somewhere it is a valveless twostroke and made more power im eating it for sure


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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:48 AM   
Willdo


 

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Status: offline 		CRUSTY, I'm a grumpy old man too, but like you I am very interested in these things, and I'm still learning, - you guys' observations are interesting to me, - however they are put.
I'm old enough to take any criticism thrown at me, ( within reason of course).
RUPURT is also very interested and keen, as are many of the others, but some are just going along for the ride!

Would a new thread on this subject be worthwhile? ( so as not to take over Tim's original), or has it all been said already?

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:49 AM   
Crusty



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ORIGINAL: Rupurt

Wastegate
.thats a valve, and if you dump the exhaust at the time you need to maintain internal flow in the engine you are also wasting the strongest peak of exhaust flow, unless you re-rout the dumped portion through the turbo..all takes valves
edit..I'm still hoping that turbo bike is gonna prove me wrong so I can shut up, im looking now


< Message edited by Crusty -- 9/14/2005 12:53 AM >

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 12:56 AM   
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Status: offline 		The oxygen density is up because of the increased pressure but the exhaust has to face that same increased pressure, I doubt there would be an increase in power. I see the plumbing and soldered up turbo as being a detriment to power, and a little amateur porting is not going to double the power.

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RE: turbocharged 25cc homelite whipper snipper - 9/14/2005 1:02 AM   
Rupurt



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Status: offline 		Hobbsy so are you saying you don't think the power of that engine would change if the pressure was 50kpa

"I see the plumbing and soldered up turbo as being a detriment to power, and a little amateur porting is not going to double the power."
Don't get me wrong I agree with you here.

< Message edited by Rupurt -- 9/14/2005 1:04 AM >

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