RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor  
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/13/2005 1:00:56 PM   
lukedodd


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

I am new to this forum how can I post the spreadsheet?

luke

(in reply to wvr)
       Post #: 26

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/13/2005 1:26:24 PM   
patternflyer1



Posts: 1303
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Luke, I didn't get the spreadsheet but would be very interested in looking at it.
homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com is my email.
Also, are they selling the f3a motor over there?
So it's twice the price.
Almost might as well go with the hacker then except for the gearbox issue.

I'm not quite at the motor selection stage yet. Almost though.
Also what altitude are you at? I am at sea level. So the 5330/18 hasn't been very efficient here. Lots of power though. From what I here.
Thanks,

Chris

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(in reply to wvr)
       Post #: 27

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/13/2005 2:31:50 PM   
can773



Posts: 1652
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Luke

Your rpm numbers on the 20x11 are nearly 800 more than claimed by Axi on that prop, do you know your current draw? Axi is claiming 84A on that prop at 6080 RPM.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi5330.htm

According to that chart, the Axi will spin a 20x13 @ 5780 rpm and 91A, my Plett 30-10 did that prop at 6050 rpm and 52A.

You should be able to attach your spreadsheet by changing the file extension to a *.jpg and uploading it, then we can save it to disk change the extension back to *.xls and open in Excel I am curious to see your sheet as well.



_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to lukedodd)
       Post #: 28

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/13/2005 4:48:00 PM   
ExFokkerFlyer



Posts: 427
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: Fresno, CA,
Status: offline 		In my experience with at least the AXI 5330/18, the numbers Hobby Lobby posts are conservative at best and are not wholly accurate. We ran an /18 with an APC 22x12 at 6500 and 89 amps. Of course, this was done at 5000 ft, so that definitely had a lot to do with it... but by going by that chart, performance like this doesn't appear to be possible at any altitude. At sea level, I don't think I would try this set up.

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Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 29

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/13/2005 4:59:35 PM   
Kolsso12



Posts: 54
Joined: 9/9/2003
From: Gothenburg, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		I have a CA Eclipse and I will use an outrunner. I have good experience of Plettenberg in my smaller 40-size planes. I am very interested of Plettenberg 25-13 and 30-10. AXI and Cyclon F3A is also an alternative. I have note decide which motor I shall by.

If possible, I would like to receive a copy of that spreadsheet as well.

Best regards,
Kristian


< Message edited by Kolsso12 -- 10/14/2005 4:45:35 PM >

(in reply to lukedodd)
       Post #: 30

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/14/2005 6:06:52 AM   
lukedodd


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi Chad,

My data for the AXI was using a Hyperion E-meter, packs as specified in the spreadsheet, but for the 5330/18 with 10s3p 7500mah Flightpower pack, 20 degree timing, 8khz switching freq, H-Acro-90 ESC the motor was doing 6900rpm, drawing 81Amps.

These figures would have some error, I would say +/- 2 amps, and +/- 100 rpm.

I use a Plett 25-13 with an APC19x12WE(at your advice) in my World Models Zen120 and it goes beautifully. However model is much lighter than my impression by about 800g. I like the extra rpm with this motor, I seem to get a better throttle response. I am very happy with this set up its a great practice machine which is kind on the packs. However I will fly my Impression in a comp this sunday. The extra power of the AXI helps in windy conditions which will prevail at the coastal flying field.

I have tried to attach the x-cell spreadsheet as a jpg file. Excuse my ignorance but how do I attach a file to this post. I have tried all the icons on the reply to message page. Cut and paste didn't work.

The spreadsheet is a starting point that could help other electric fliers, but I would like to spend more time on it to refine it and add more parameters such as different timings and switching.

luke




(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 31

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/14/2005 6:40:09 AM   
can773



Posts: 1652
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Luke

After you click the reply button, directly below where you type the reply is a link that say's Click here to upload!, from there it will pop up a window that will allow you to browse and attach a file. If you still cant get it uploaded drop it in an email to me and I will get it on here for you.

chad@f3acanada.org

Curious that the posted numbers from Axi are that far out of line with your measured numbers. I can beleive that the E-meter is a good measuring device. ExFokkerFlyer was referring to altitude, but I fly at 3500' and have flown the same setup (30-10 Plett/21-13W APC) at sea level and only noticed about a 2 amp increase in static draw, and had to reduce flight time by about 15-30 seconds to get similar draw, so I dont think that contributes much to the variation in posted spec vs. actual. Unfortunately I cannot find any information directly on Axi's site only Hobby Lobby and obviously their numbers are flawed

Plett will have a couple of new motors available hopefully by the spring Two options, either a high rpm smaller prop setup, or a larger prop lower rpm setup.




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Chad Northeast

(in reply to lukedodd)
       Post #: 32

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/14/2005 9:19:27 AM   
lukedodd


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi Chris,

Thanks for the help.

Hopefully spreadsheet attached.


luke

Attachments
Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.txt

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 33

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/14/2005 4:42:47 PM   
can773



Posts: 1652
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Luke

Got the spreadsheet in my email, and your attachement works as well

Interesting to see the numbers, I am wondering if there is not something ESC related as the numbers you have for the Plett's do not match what I have recorded. I am using the Schulze 32.55K ESC, with the sw. Freq at 9kHz but the timing is not labelled as on the Hacker....I dont know what "soft timing" represents in actual degrees

With the 18x12 on the 25-13 we were seeing more around 6500-6600 and mid 60's for current. The 18.5x12 was pushing up around 70A, the 19x12 was about 6300-6400 and 73-74A, 19x12W is about 6400-6500 and 65-67A.

With the 30-10 the 21x13W prop is spinning about 5900 and 62A, the 21x12W is spinning 6000 and 60A. All this is with the TP 5300 packs, which I see you are using in some of your tests, and your voltages match closely to what I have recorded, I typically have seen around 35V right up to 70A loads.

Would be interesting to repeat your tests with a Schulze ESC and see if you notice any difference as compared to the Hacker.


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Chad Northeast

(in reply to lukedodd)
       Post #: 34

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/14/2005 11:26:10 PM   
lukedodd


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hi Chad,

You make a very good point and certainly the ESC is still a key component in the equation.
I will get my hands on a 32.55k shortly.
Also I have some new model FlightPower Evo 20C continuous 30 C burst capacity 10s LiPo packs due from the factory next week. It will be interesting if they maintain a higer voltage under load and the impact this will have on rpm also.

luke

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 35

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/15/2005 12:43:07 AM   
can773



Posts: 1652
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Luke

You probably will I was using Apogee 5000 (same as Flightpower 5000 cells) and got about a 400W increase in power when I went to the TP 5300's....thats why I had to stop using the 19x12 and move to the 19x12W because with the TP the 19x12 would over-current the Schulze ESC on the 25-13

I am curious how those cells perform compared to the Thunder Power's, although they are still around 80 grams per 5s pack heavier than the TP's for similar capacity, but according to the site they are a fair bit cheaper.



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Chad Northeast

(in reply to lukedodd)
       Post #: 36

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/16/2005 4:46:29 PM   
patternflyer1



Posts: 1303
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Ales

What altitude are you at above sea level?
Also do you have any detailed information on different props, rpm's and current draw's?
I may have my family in England order me one as I can't get them over here yet..

Thanks in advance,

Chris

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(in reply to az)
       Post #: 37

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/17/2005 10:12:45 PM   
Dean Pappas


 

Posts: 165
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: South Plainfield, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Hello Chris,
I read your comment with curiousity. What about running "only" an 18-inch diameter do you find to be a problem? Let me start a friendly argument here: there are two issues with big diameter props. First, I have found that on my O.S. 140 RX, when I played with larger diameter props, like an 18 X 10, the thrust characteristics might have improved, but I also noticed some gyroscopics that I did not like. The second issue is that the slope of the thrust versus airspeed characteristic, given a certain amount of available horsepower (wattage) is entirely different with very large diameters. In short, none of the 22-inch setups had the airspeed to fly in wind. I saw it in France, this Summer, and I have seen it at the U.S. NATs. An airplane that is propped so that it tops-out at 85 MPH may be great for flying at "constant speed", but it isn't the best setup, in the long run.

Ales,
I noticed that you have run the lower kv AXI 5330. How does the top speed compare? Do you have the ability to fly excessively fast, under normal conditions?

Thank you both,
Dean Pappas: F3A columnist Flying Models Magazine

(in reply to wvr)
       Post #: 38

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/17/2005 10:28:49 PM   
Dean Pappas


 

Posts: 165
Joined: 1/27/2004
From: South Plainfield, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Hello Luke,
May I also request a copy of the spreadsheet.
<d.pappas@kodeos.com>
Thanks,
Dean Pappas

(in reply to lukedodd)
       Post #: 39

RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor - 10/18/2005 1:26:36 AM   
patternflyer1



Posts: 1303
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: Tracy, CA, USA
Status: offline