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balsaeater -> RE: E85 (6/19/2008 1:08:33 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jeffie8696
I did a recent test using summer blend E85 in a .25 size engine that although had seen
better days was still very serviceable. Baseline Morgans 5% nitro Hanger 9 plug 9X6
prop. gave 11,800
Then I mixed up just E85 with 20% castor. got 11,300 but it wants a very hot plug!
Next I mixed the morgans 5% and E85 mix together and got 11,500 with the same hanger 9
plug.
My calculations say I can make E85/20%castor mix for $6.88 a gallon. If I mix it 50/50
with my regular nitro fuel the savings could really add up.
I also found a little acetone in the Plymouth works wonders. I advanced the cam slightly
to improve the low speed torque and plan to increase the fuel pressure slightly to
provide better air fuel ratio. I can now run the E85 about 70% without too much
driveability issues. Being such an old car it has issues on regular gas too.
I did not try any acetone in my glow testing but it seems reasonable especially if minor
amounts can be used since the cost is about $5.00 a guart .
Excellent info keep the information coming for both models and real automobiles
Acetone is best I can see is used at ~3% and would typically replace 5% nitro and
acetone helps the slow speed tick over of the model engines like nitro does but unlike
5% nitro has no benefit to top end that I can establish
Also Acetone is usually 1/3 the price of nitro and seems to only require ~3% so saving
seem to be possible such as replacing 5% nitro or instead of 10% nitro it seems 3%
acetone and 5% nitro would also work
I will probably do Acetone in my NEW 26cc MVVVS when it is run in as it is on 5% nitro
now
Then if that works for the 26CC MVVS motor I will start to try to give it some E85 and
as E85 is half the price per gallon of methanol for me if the motor can do 50% methanol
and 50% E85 without eating glow plugs then big saving are to be had for my model plane glow engines
But before lots of guys go throwing E85 into their own car fuel tanks these figures may help a bit to see if it is worth the effort
In 1974 fuel crisis as a teen I took my 50c c 4 gears Yamaha motorbike top speed ~50mph
and did a four run one track experiment with a 100cc of fuel
1 st run full tilt 4 th gear ~50 mph using 100cc of fuel until it ran out
= 1 run of one or 1 mile nearly exactly ~ 45MPG UK gal (~35USA gal)
2nd run full tilt 3rd gear ~35 mph using 100cc of fuel
= 2nd run of two times one mile or 2 miles exactly ~90MPG UK gal (~70USA gal)
3rd run slow as possible 4th gear ~20mph using 100cc of fuel until it ran out
= 3 runs of one mile or 3 miles nearly ~135MPG UK gal (~110 USA gal)
4 th run slow as possible 3rd gear ~10mph using 100cc of fuel until it ran out
= 4 runs of one mile or 4 miles nearly ~180MPG UK gal (~150 USA gal)
Actually I think from memory it had a bit a of fuel left over on the a last run of 4 miles enough for 5 to 6 runs so 250MPG might have been possible but I just couldn't take any more driving at a snails pace ~10mph
It strongly points to changing driving speeds can change MPG and costs more without changing fuels for most people
For those who wish to understand how to get the MAX MPG from any fuel the study of the
competition on ~2000MPG special lightweight Trikes on gasoline mostly using 50cc engines
http://www.shell.com/home/content/uk-en/news_and_library/press_releases/2007/uk_eco_marathon_060707.html
This competition shows often the best fuel figures they get are from accelerating slowly up to ~40MPH and switching off the engine .
Then they are free wheeling( engine off) back down to ~20MPH
Then they switch engine back on and repeating the cycle
This improved the previous ~1500 MPG from steady state speed driving at ~30 MPH to this newer solution floating from 40 to 20 MPH and returned ~2000MPG and so was beneficial on the
50cc engine scale
This brings me back to simplex experiments MPG done this year in my own two cars mostly done for my my late 1990's hatch back compact Suziki swift 1000cc and seldom used late 1990's Volvo V40 station wagon
I have gone from last year when I first bought the small car a modest ~35MPG UK (~30MPG USA
GALLON ) with normal driving to reaching ~65MPG UK (~55MPG USA GALLON ) with super
careful driving free wheeling engine running on tick over where possible (note free wheeling is for manual gear box cars but even coasting helps MPG for my friend a hyper miler in San Francisco who does good MPG on his Honda civic automatic )
Also being quicker to switch off engine in severe traffic jams or long traffic lights helps a bit
Most helpful of all methods for low MPG I figure is very slow acceleration just like a slow coach granny would do and again as well change into highest gears ASAP (accept going up hills an labouring engine ) and then rarely exceeding 45 MPH even on the high ways
Bumping up highway speeds to 55 MPH makes the the fuel figure drop to ~55MPG UK (~45MPG
USA GALLON or a ~15% increase in fuel consumption to gain a speed of ~12% more
I often do one week in the month a long commute of a total 70 miles per day (2*35 miles )so nowadays I usually set the the speed for ~50MPH a compromise that only costs me 10 minutes extra each way on the previous 1 hour single way journey time
commute
That makes it a 1 hour 10 minute commute each way but I get nearly the double MPG
staying below 50 MPH than going to 70MPH which is possible as most all the journey is
a highway commute
I am planning later on to try to add E85 fuels to the gasoline in increments to see what are the results
E85 fuel costs often 20% less than gasoline in my part of Europe ( about $ 7 plus a gallon USA and
still easily with higher taxes the double the USA fuel costs )
I would be hopeful that a 50% gasoline 50% E85 mix would return me a saving of an
extra 10% more again even with maybe a 10% drop in MPG as Alcohol fuels hopefully supply
more grunt and smoother running at lower RPM which can then recoup the lost power that
gasoline loses from knock affects
So for me the biggest fuel saving to be made could be from amputating the right foot of all
motorists which could save 30% of any countries car fuel bills immediately as they would be right foot less easier to retrain in fuel saving methods before changing to other fuels types like E85
or diesel whatever
It probably explains where the famous pre internet days classic mail order scam for 50% fuel
saving came from
The gee whiz high tech gizmo's you got through the postal service was a humble house brick to put under the gas pedal and it did actually save gas and improve MPG [:D]
(Please I don't want to debate the merits or safety issues of free wheeling of a my car or other cars
I mostly 90% of the time when I free wheel do it it is in heavy traffic at less than 30MPH on
straight roads in between the out of sync traffic lights so its not a big deal
Also having having got better with free-wheeling methods for more than 10,000 miles of real
intensive fuel saving driving methods to see how effective it is I have also increased the use of it on down hills good road dry conditions at speeds of up to ~50MPH including around mild corners mostly going down hills
Each hill or case of free wheeling is individual according to the local conditions where I precieve my own car can do it safely
The last 10,000 mile brake pad tests showed no signs of extra wear and tear from lack of drive shaft drag and extra braking required
(My perception of safety is based on having more than 100,000 miles driving under me
in many countries in several continents on every type of road from good highways to dirt tracks .
For me is up to every motorist to decide what type of driving they wish to conduct that they believe is safely possible in their own cars )
Nowadays I more rarely do the practice of free wheeling especially on straight highways as I found
the more constant fuel saving were to be made keeping a steady speed on the gas pedal and most benefits from free wheeling were to be found in slow down town traffic conditions free wheeling up to red traffic lights
Free wheeling experments on full size cars do not compare very favorably to the 2000MPG light weight expermental trikes success
It is very difficult to get gas pedal and engine RPM synchronised for engaging gears without
some sort of extra gas usage from changing gas pedal regimes
This made short or medium free wheeling events less interesting even in my small compact car
Also to factor in is the fact the modern cars are often coupled to power assisted brakes & steering and cant really allow switching engines off while driving .
This means the car engine has to stay on tick over when free wheeling reducing a lot of the saving from free wheeling
My best guess is most drivers as in probably 98% will not get any useful fuel saving with any free
wheeling over the benefits of simply coasting in higher gears but the older the car the
more chance to gain from free wheeling events
If the very older car is manual shift with manual steering and brakes and is allowing engine switch of solutions then more gain might be possible
The more modern high spec a car is with the new computer fuel engine monitoring systems the less likely the free wheeling will benefit the MPG for car
The modern engines control the fuel flow far better to match load demands
I think they even cut fuel off a lot when when coasting and low loads
Thus far my limited tests on my other late ninety's gas guzzling 25MPG Volvo V40 saloon car show no MPG benefits from free wheeling that I can establish on the small mileage I use that car possibly from the better fuel monitoring solutions it might have
(I mention free wheeling issues because there is always the famous lecture from some source about free wheeling issues )
(For USA 98% is automatic transmission so the problem doesn't really exist in the USA )
My talks with run of the mill taxi drivers using modern 5/6 gear Automatic gear box
cars using best economy setting for the shift drive indicates they gain a much better
MPG over manual shift versions of similar models of cars
This indicates the average manual shift gear box car driver stays too long in the wrong gears thereby using too much fuel
this means when possible my future car purchases will lean towards Automatic gear box
I figure even with the so called 10% loss in the oil slip gear box affect I figure it will probably get better MPG than manual gear box solutions
I estimate with my fairly low annual mileage 15,000 miles it will need to cost $50 a gallon for diesel or flex fuel cars extra premium costs to get back my capital outlay over present day gasoline solutions
If Flex fuel can work with out expensive gizmo's then it can be good for me
Even a $200 dollar kit to convert to flex fuel might take me 20,000 miles to get my money back or unless fuel goes to $30 a gallon
Hopefully some pointers can help some guys save a few $$$ and return some extra MPG
I hope this weekend to do a 400 mile return journey and will hopefully do decent at night at 55mph and return at daytime at 45mph so as to compare long distance advantages .
I estimate ball park 55 MPH will return ~55 gallon UK and 45 MPH will return ~70MPG UK but a long journey might show other results
Ralf
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