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The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 1:50:12 PM   
kenair


 

Posts: 509
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Would you consider the MAAC 2005 Nats a success.
Does the Nats event merit MAAC money and head office resources when club sponsored events out perform the Nats yet receive no funding from MAAC. Did the Nats get representation from all the provinces.

This past weekend a local Fly-in event with no MAAC funding and ealing with with poor weather had over 70 registrants by Saturday with more to come on Sunday.

from the link at http://www.maacnats.ca/

quote:

Due to lack of registrations, R/C Open Combat has been cancelled.

The following categories have also been cancelled:
R/C Helicopter
Sailplane
Electric


and off the can of RC at http://www.rccanada.ca/bb/viewtopic.php?t=17087 it would appear that scale and IMAC (scale aerobatics) has 20 to 25 guys per each discipline.

I support competition, but are the Nats the representation of MAAC, the way to promote model aviation.


What's your view? Has the Nats become a small regional event.






< Message edited by kenair -- 8/15/2005 2:21:04 PM >

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 2:47:28 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



Posts: 2078
Joined: 4/5/2002
From: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Please define outperform, in what way?

How are we to compare a local social fly-in with a national competition?

Are apples better than oranges because they are redder and easier to grow locally?

Should the British Open be cancelled in favour of the Edrie Classic (a family reunion that begins with a round of golf, in memory of my late Grandmother) as it attracts a greater number of participants?

Inquiring minds want to know....

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 3:38:36 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I don't agree with Ken's anti-competition rants, however, the lack of participation indicates something problematic -- what is it?

Was there insufficient advance warning to the modelling fraternity to get prepared?

Were insufficient resources available (monetary, manpower, etc)?

Was there something lacking in the organization of the event (advertising, venue, local infrastructure, whatever)?

Is there a general decline in competition interest (Ken will like that one)?


I don't pretend to know the answers to any of those questions, but if low levels of apparent interest conbtinue, then I think that the problems (whatever they are) have to be fixed,or the "national" program dumped (which I think would be unfortunate).

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 3:42:38 PM   
sivlE


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: windsor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Yes I would suggest that the Nats was a great success. The weather was cooperative and the atmosphere was exciting and friendly. I also met some new folks and learned a lot about competing in a scale event. I thought that it was well organized but needed some standard judging criteria. I had practiced some maneuvers only to find out that they were different from what the judges wanted to see.
I am new to this forum and have read a multitude of postings. I am surprised that our fellow hobbyists are bickering back and forth on issues that cause descent among our fellowship. It appears to me to be mainly over funding and disagreeing with others opinions. Every body is entitled to their own opinion, so I suggest we leave it at that and discuss positive issues to benefit of our hobby. Leave the decisions to those voted to make them and if we don't agree re-vote next time. It is my opinion, that if you are so against how the MAAC's money is being dispersed, then leave MAAC, fly without insurance and stop receiving the monthly Magazine. I feel that my dues pay for these privileges and are worth it. anything extra that is funded is a bonus to me and the hobby. If anyone feels a need to reply to this posting to bash me about my opinion, or to criticize my intelligence do not expect a response.

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 4:14:05 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



Posts: 2078
Joined: 4/5/2002
From: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		sivlE,

Your sentiments appear to echo those of many others (my own included) I meet in this hobby.

I fail to understand why a select few seem to feel the need to squash competition and competitive events. But then again, as a parent, I fail to comprehend the advocacy groups who want to remove competition from schools in the thinking that losing is harmful to the development of a child's psyche. I for one feel that the development of the desire to compete, including the development of the ability to cope with losing ... without giving up, is a key lesson in development ... at all stages of life.

Back on topic. I continue to fail to see why a few here are attempting to spin the latest nationals as a failure? I was unable to attend due to work commitments but, I hear nothing but positive comments from those who attended.

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 5:17:03 PM   
kenair


 

Posts: 509
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Kenair is not anti competition, I whole heartly support competition, I think you are forming an opinion before............well what is else is new.

Its great idea for MAAC continue to focus on the Nats and the FAI.

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 5:46:30 PM   
sivlE


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: windsor, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Yes Jim, I totally agree with you on our societies views these days. If we had that same fear of losing in the past, T.E. wouldn't of even invented the lightbulb and would have given up after his first failure. I think that it has become fashionable to have a lifestyle that is abnormal.
What really gets me, is that society seems to accept these abnormalities and tries to justify them in the interest of political correctness.
Anyway I hope to see you at the NATS next year, as I have become hooked on the thrill of competition.

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 5:51:02 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



Posts: 2078
Joined: 4/5/2002
From: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Once the competition bug bites, it hangs on. Welcome my friend, hope we do meet at a future Nats.

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 9:58:54 PM   
Sharpy01



Posts: 600
Joined: 9/9/2003
From: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I'll continue my Mantra:

Have fun, and I really don't care how you decide to have you fun in the hobby. Just don't demand/assume/expect everyone else to pay for your fun. If the Nats had 15 competitors and didn't loose any money, then bravo! I'm OK with it.

If It had 55 and lost thousands of our money, then I have a problem. The success, media and financial, depends on the organizers and sponsors...................not the title.

Regardless, here are some nic pics of the Gimli event;

http://www.sportrc.com/gimli.html

< Message edited by Sharpy01 -- 8/15/2005 10:02:03 PM >

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 10:18:54 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

I'll continue my Mantra:

Have fun, and I really don't care how you decide to have you fun in the hobby. Just don't demand/assume/expect everyone else to pay for your fun. If the Nats had 15 competitors and didn't loose any money, then bravo! I'm OK with it.

If It had 55 and lost thousands of our money, then I have a problem. The success, media and financial, depends on the organizers and sponsors...................not the title.


http://www.sportrc.com/gimli.html



Jim, I'm clearly a bit dim, but I'm sure that a smart guy like you can help. Please explain, without repeating the same-old, same-old thing, why & where Sharpy is wrong about this.

This is a serious request.

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 10:30:55 PM   
Morison


 

Posts: 97
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		I'll take a kick at explaining why Mark is wrong (although I don't actually disagree with him)

Events like a Nationals carry with them a level of risk. A week of rain when the Nats were planned and you're out some money. What these events need is protection against the unforseen. Ultimately, this should be a fund that is built up over time, and generated from surplusses from financially viable events in the same area. BUT ... if we want to see events grow and prosper, we need to be able to offer financial protection to the organisers.
That said, that protection should come at the cost of a well prepared budget based on conservative if not pessimistic projections. There should be timelines for projection adjustments and budget re-working.
The big thing is that the board recognises and understands the potential losses if things fall apart. The Brandon Nats has long been held up as an expample of a failure, with the event costing the association over $20,000 ... The board was aware of the costs, for the most part, and knew they were spending the money ...

Where Mark had a problem was with events that ran unforseen and unmitigated losses. Mark has said, but I have no idea if it is true, that the 2005 Nats did not present a complete budget to the board ... I suspect this is where he has the biggest problem.


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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/15/2005 10:58:46 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		OK Keith, thanks for your take on the subject.

Do you know if there is a "participation factor" that is applied, wherein some value-for-$ things get examined? That seems to be a problem for both Ken & Marc.



< Message edited by britbrat -- 8/15/2005 11:00:02 PM >

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/16/2005 1:12:51 AM   
kenair


 

Posts: 509
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Many, many model aviation events in Canada are growing and prospering for years without ever sucking on the MAAC milk bottle. They have taken risks too.

Is it because once one has the taste of free MAAC money, they are unable to wean themselves off it, are there any other event groups in MAAC besides Nats/FAI that are on MAACs doorstep asking for the memberships dollars.

< Message edited by kenair -- 8/16/2005 1:16:58 AM >

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/16/2005 1:50:18 AM   
jhelps


 

Posts: 163
Joined: 1/9/2003
From: Headingley, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Somebody somewhere always foots the bill. I think the Gimli event is going to grow and do well, however it likely would have remained only a dream if Gimli had not covered many costs. Would be interested to know what the costs were that were picked up by the town.

JH

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RE: The future of MAAC Nats - 8/16/2005 2:07:07 AM   
Sharpy01



Posts: 600
Joined: 9/9/2003
From: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jhelps

Somebody somewhere always foots the bill. I think the Gimli event is going to grow and do well, however it likely would have remained only a dream if Gimli had not covered many costs. Would be interested to know what the costs were that were picked up by the town.

JH


Correct. However, the partership with Gimli and corporate sponsors such as Rogers Wireless, obviously can see a benefit to them in sponsoring the event.................or they would not. If it doesn't pay off for them, they will no longer sponsor the event in the future. Right now, things look good as the City has begun work on a permanent facility for the event at an old Air Force base within a multi-use facility, including a Drag Racing Track, a Off-road race track, control line circle, along with some other ideas designed to get people to their town on a regular basis.

It's a terrific example of partnership designed to benefit both sides. The Town kicks in a few thousand dollars for the event, which they apparently feel it worth the investment. The organizers have also been devising methods to raise money from the modellers and spectators to work towards making the event totally self-sufficient so no city money will be needed. Local service clubs earn some charity money through food-service and show up at the field with their fund-raising raffle items and sell their tickets to the participants and spectators..........winners all around.

(in reply to jhelps)