RE: FOX 50 runs HOT

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT
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RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/17/2005 8:29:40 AM

Woody 51

Posts: 1159
Joined: 6/21/2003
From: GeelongVictoria, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

Hi Guys,
I'm back again. Work commitments have kept me away from my fav website, though I have also managed to destroy a ST G.51, in a 200 foot to ground level "Splot!", since I last logged on. (Crook aileron servo!)

Glad to see that the thread is back on track and some great info is being exchanged.

I am one of 2 who run Fox's at my club and yes, we both have had our share of frustration in the past. One thing I did learn about Fox engines was that some operating procedures that worked on other brands, didn't neccessarily work with a Fox. (Sort of like the differences found between "hotting up" a Chevy and the old Ford "Cleveland" line)

I had to go back to my C/L days of many moons ago when I used to run a Fox .35, before I finally figured out my Fox .40's and .45R.
I don't have a problem with either now. I can leave my Fox's "in the shed" for months and then get 'em out and fire 'em up 2nd flick and never have to touch the carby needle.

I have more powerful engines in my "stable" than some of my Fox's, but I like to match the engine with the potential performance of the model that they are powering. No point installing an MVVS .49 with tuned muffler, (or silencer), into a Trainer, when a Fox.45R will be quite adequate.

And I did have to turn to George over at Fliteline Solutions to sort out my Eagle IV .74 Ring. His alternate head button design for this engine does work very well.

"K" (Pleased to meet you by the way,) I agree with you that MVVS is a "pearler" of an engine brand, I have several now (and Dar Zealon has helped me no end in understanding them. This website is so lucky having guys like Dar as contributors.) and will be adding more in the future.

And yes, as you say, the "FX" was better "on the Barby." But mate, it didn't taste nearly as good as the Shrimp! A bit hard and metallic!

Turning to OS, (I did use OS engines also in my C/L days. Didn't even have to fit a muffler back then) they have a marketing department that many other businesses around the world would kill for and their spares back up was and still is, excellent.
But my humble opinion is, that OS reached the peak of their design with the FSR series.
Once Ogawa San went to the Great Flying Field in the sky, those that have followed him in the design department at OS, have found it somewhat hard to walk in his footsteps.

Same situation over at Fox since Duke passed away.

Charles Thacker has had plenty of time to sort out the niggling problems with some of the Fox line, (caused mainly by Duke's fiddling with Higher Compression in his motors) and also come up with a decent, flexible Twin Needle carby. Incidentally, this latter project was started, but has now been abandoned. The few TN Carbys (Fox part no #2600) that they produced for "C " Frame engines, worked well, but suffered some QC problems with machining etc.

Methinks Mr Thacker has seen the steady "Asianisation" of the (much flooded) model 2 stroke market, that has gobbled up Super Tigre and Irvine (maybe, - no one quite knows what the situation with Irvine is at this time.) Also the arrival of larger Brushless Electric motors and Lipo batteries and so has decided to concentrate on Glow Plugs and developing the new range of large scale Fox Gasoline Engines.

He has to keep an eye on the company's future survival, so no point in spending large amounts of development $$$, when ones market is not all that big. What they make works pretty well and keeps their client base happy, most of the time!
(Almost like a Cottage Industry.)

In finishing, did Crazy4Flight, ever sort out his overheating .50?

_____________________________

A crash keeps one's opinion of one's flying ability, in perspective.

(in reply to Rodney)

Post #: 76

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/17/2005 8:51:10 AM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7735
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Woody 51

Hi Guys,
I'm back again. Work commitments have kept me away from my fav website, though I have also managed to destroy a ST G.51, in a 200 foot to ground level "Splot!", since I last logged on. (Crook aileron servo!)

Glad to see that the thread is back on track and some great info is being exchanged.

I am one of 2 who run Fox's at my club and yes, we both have had our share of frustration in the past. One thing I did learn about Fox engines was that some operating procedures that worked on other brands, didn't neccessarily work with a Fox. (Sort of like the differences found between "hotting up" a Chevy and the old Ford "Cleveland" line)

I had to go back to my C/L days of many moons ago when I used to run a Fox .35, before I finally figured out my Fox .40's and .45R.
I don't have a problem with either now. I can leave my Fox's "in the shed" for months and then get 'em out and fire 'em up 2nd flick and never have to touch the carby needle.

I have more powerful engines in my "stable" than some of my Fox's, but I like to match the engine with the potential performance of the model that they are powering. No point installing an MVVS .49 with tuned muffler, (or silencer), into a Trainer, when a Fox.45R will be quite adequate.

And I did have to turn to George over at Fliteline Solutions to sort out my Eagle IV .74 Ring. His alternate head button design for this engine does work very well.

"K" (Pleased to meet you by the way,) I agree with you that MVVS is a "pearler" of an engine brand, I have several now (and Dar Zealon has helped me no end in understanding them. This website is so lucky having guys like Dar as contributors.) and will be adding more in the future.

And yes, as you say, the "FX" was better "on the Barby." But mate, it didn't taste nearly as good as the Shrimp! A bit hard and metallic!

Turning to OS, (I did use OS engines also in my C/L days. Didn't even have to fit a muffler back then) they have a marketing department that many other businesses around the world would kill for and their spares back up was and still is, excellent.
But my humble opinion is, that OS reached the peak of their design with the FSR series.
Once Ogawa San went to the Great Flying Field in the sky, those that have followed him in the design department at OS, have found it somewhat hard to walk in his footsteps.

Same situation over at Fox since Duke passed away.

Charles Thacker has had plenty of time to sort out the niggling problems with some of the Fox line, (caused mainly by Duke's fiddling with Higher Compression in his motors) and also come up with a decent, flexible Twin Needle carby. Incidentally, this latter project was started, but has now been abandoned. The few TN Carbys (Fox part no #2600) that they produced for "C " Frame engines, worked well, but suffered some QC problems with machining etc.

Methinks Mr Thacker has seen the steady "Asianisation" of the (much flooded) model 2 stroke market, that has gobbled up Super Tigre and Irvine (maybe, - no one quite knows what the situation with Irvine is at this time.) Also the arrival of larger Brushless Electric motors and Lipo batteries and so has decided to concentrate on Glow Plugs and developing the new range of large scale Fox Gasoline Engines.

He has to keep an eye on the company's future survival, so no point in spending large amounts of development $$$, when ones market is not all that big. What they make works pretty well and keeps their client base happy, most of the time!
(Almost like a Cottage Industry.)

In finishing, did Crazy4Flight, ever sort out his overheating .50?

--------------------------------------------------------

Most Fox engines are "old paradygm" designs. This does not make them bad. Just different.

I used to get a kick out of how far Duke would go to incorporate as many "features" as he could in a casting, instead of relying upon machining and additional parts. An example would be the carb fuel nipple on the seventies engines equipped with non airbleed carbs.

I recently purchased a used Fox .50. I've always wanted one, but never got around to buying one before. I'm still deciding whether I am going to convert it to Diesel operation.

Running Fox engines without lots of castor oil in the fuel usually leads to overheating and poor running. That is the single biggest "secret" to successfully running Fox engines. Even the ball bearing, ABC engines. All Foxes need castor oil.

_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to Woody 51)

Post #: 77

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/17/2005 9:28:28 PM

PlaneKrazee

Posts: 3541
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Westerly, RI, USA
Status: offline

I remember an old friend that had a new Fox 74 or 78 in a large Spitfire back in 1976. What a pilot, plane and engine! It was about a 72" plane and that engine had it cranking. Ernie, if your out there, you were the best pilot.

_____________________________

KB1DTB
AMA11123

(in reply to Ed Cregger)

Post #: 78

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 12:42:06 PM

RaceCity

Posts: 1842
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: NotUpNorth, USA
Status: offline

It's worth noting that the Fox #2600 TN carb is a VERY worthwhile upgrade for the .40 C-frame motors. On the outside, it's tough to
distinguish from the standard MKX TN carb, but it is indeed a significant improvement in that it's very easy to adjust (about the same as any really good TN carb), and the kicker is...it is DEAD CONSISTENT. Flight after flight...day after day...it holds settings accurately with no lean spots...no rich spots...just a nice clean mixture all the way from low idle to WOT. The flitelinesolutions.com site explains the workings of the carb in better detail, but let it suffice to say it's a fine unit!

$32.00 from Fox. Why this isn't installed on current production motors is a mystery, but it's definitely worth getting.

I love my Fox motors....every last one of them is a keeper!

'Race

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AMA 63990

(in reply to PlaneKrazee)

Post #: 79

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 1:48:57 PM

fliteline

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Status: offline

The #2600 carb. WAS pretty good for a Fox carb. Apparently, however, Fox has decided to discontinue it, along with development of the TN version for larger engines. Another Fox marketing mystery.

_____________________________

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Information and help for users of Fox RC Glow engines

(in reply to RaceCity)

Post #: 80

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 3:57:31 PM

RaceCity

Posts: 1842
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: NotUpNorth, USA
Status: offline

Oh say it isn't so....

'Race

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Post #: 81

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 8:45:56 PM

Woody 51

Posts: 1159
Joined: 6/21/2003
From: GeelongVictoria, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

That's right Race. The TN carby for the C frame Fox's is gone! And its promised bigger brother, part no 2700, was stillborn.
So if you have some 2600 TN's, hang onto em. You now have a rare item.

_____________________________

A crash keeps one's opinion of one's flying ability, in perspective.

(in reply to RaceCity)

Post #: 82

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 8:51:46 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7716
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: online

Why they do that? Thacker likes to wacker the customer?

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(in reply to Woody 51)

Post #: 83

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 9:42:18 PM

Woody 51

Posts: 1159
Joined: 6/21/2003
From: GeelongVictoria, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

No, I suspect that Thacker is more interested in developing the Fox large scale Gasoline engine line.

If you look around, ARFs' are taking over and they are getting bigger and bigger. 1/4 scale ARF's are now common and well, what about an engine to power them?

The gasoline spark engine market only as a few players in it, whereas the small 2 stroke arena, now dominated by OS and the other cheaper Asian brands, has been flooded for years. Fox is now only a minor player in it really and certainly has little or no presence outside the North American Continent.

So to ensure the future survival of Fox, Thacker has obviously made a "bottom line" decision and gone with where he can make Fox a dominant player. Unfortunately, this is partially at the expense of the Fox 2 stroke line, as his budget would not be a bottomless pit.

Otherwise, long term it would see Fox going the way of K & B, Irvine etc.

_____________________________

A crash keeps one's opinion of one's flying ability, in perspective.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)

Post #: 84

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/18/2005 10:44:38 PM

badger5964

Posts: 278
Joined: 11/5/2003
From: Fayetteville, NC, USA
Status: offline

Ed,
what is a paradygm design? Never heard of it and I am curious

For my two cents worth I'd love to have a Fox 50. I fly Foxes just because they are different. I've found them strong, well running and work great on cheap no nitro fuel. If Fox would make one for a price similar to a .45 I'd probably buy.

(in reply to Ed Cregger)

Post #: 85

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/19/2005 5:46:42 AM

Woody 51

Posts: 1159
Joined: 6/21/2003
From: GeelongVictoria, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

Badg,
Fox will make you a .50 Ring BB to special order. Not sure what the pricing would be though. Why not contact them and see? Cost you nothing!

_____________________________

A crash keeps one's opinion of one's flying ability, in perspective.

(in reply to badger5964)

Post #: 86

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/19/2005 11:04:50 AM

Ed Cregger

Posts: 7735
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: badger5964

Ed,
what is a paradygm design? Never heard of it and I am curious

For my two cents worth I'd love to have a Fox 50. I fly Foxes just because they are different. I've found them strong, well running and work great on cheap no nitro fuel. If Fox would make one for a price similar to a .45 I'd probably buy.

--------------------

Paradym = paradigm, when I hit the right key, it comes out spelled correctly. <G>

Old paradigm, in my way of thinking, means different metallurgy and a different way of thinking about how long an engine should last, how loud it should run, how powerful it should be, etc. It also has to do with the crankcase format (size). Many of Fox's engines were designed in the seventies and updated very little during the years that followed. Duke's reliance upon castor oil lubricant is "old paradigm" to me. Why a ball bearing engine with a piston ring will run better with castor lube than synthetic is a mystery to me. But Duke's engines were set up that way. I suspect that he knew a lot more about alloy/lubricant combinations than most folks making engines know today. I do see some efforts that I am convinced are attempts to copy his success (Magnum/ASP).

I owned and flew one of his early, large crankcase "wart" .45 size engines. It had a nasty looking dimple on the outside of the intake channel. It was extremely powerful and high revving, but the darned thing would just quit absolutely dead for no reason that I could ascertain. This was very unpredictable. It was a ringed engine. I never did figure out why it would quit like that. The glow plug was good afterwards and the fuel system was okay. Just one of those things. No signs of micro welds on the liner, etc.

Another example would be the Fox Eagle .60. It was an under square design, meaning that the stroke dimension was greater than the bore dimension.

My Eagle .60 would not rev up all that high, but the darned thing did not slow down anywhere near as much as a high rpm .60 two-stroke while climbing. Its performance was very much like a four-stroke in that regard. My Kaos 60 would not take off of our grass field with an 11x7 prop. The Eagle only spun up to 10.5k rpm. Switching to an 11x8 (old paradigm) would haul the Kaos .60 off the grand in no time. Take off, point the nose up and watch the heavy 7.5 lbs. Kaos disappear into the air above.

Fox beat OS in developing the long strong engine (OS RF and SF) by nearly a decade.

_____________________________

Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to badger5964)

Post #: 87

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/19/2005 7:26:10 PM

Hobbsy

Posts: 10677
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline

This is my latest Fox aquisition, a .74, it came with a Perry carb and a Fox airbleed carb, I removed the perry and mounted the Fox carb, no issues when running. It came with the stock Fox head button and an A. J. Coholic head button, I ran it first with the stock one, again no issues, I have the AJC button installed now but have not run it. I basically gave it a Saito style break in for 45 minutes, I won't try full throttle until another 1/2 hour.

Woops, I had a moron moment and forgot the picture.

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< Message edited by hobbsy -- 11/19/2005 7:27:34 PM >

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Post #: 88

RE: FOX 50 runs HOT - 11/19/2005 11:12:22 PM