RE: BT Bf109E-4

RE: BT Bf109E-4
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RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/28/2005 2:54:47 AM

tubig

Posts: 963
Joined: 2/17/2003
From: Jungli, TAIWAN
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carl,
what do you think about lamenating 0.010 g-10 to 1/64" ply to create the bottom skin for a split flap? do you think it would be rigid enough? not for the 109 but for a FW190 i have on the waitlist.

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Tim

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Post #: 101

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/28/2005 1:56:14 PM

carlbecker

Posts: 1635
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Status: online

I don't think you will be happy with that. It really helps to make the flaps 3D instead of a flat sheet. So far everything I have built flap wise has been the split flap style. The Platt Zero is by far the stiffest method. It was time consuming. I have tried just putting reinforcing strips on the inside of ply, G-10 and fiberglass ply sandwich. None of these where as stiff as the built up. Do note I have not used/found a less flexible resin. That could make a huge difference! I like 1/64 ply but its real flexible and has caused me some head aches. The G-10 I have does not take adhesive real well so I am careful about using it. How thick is the flap area at the hinge line? Will you be making the hinges?

Carl

I just had a thought

if you want to experiment try some 1/64 ply or G-10 sandwiching 1/16 or 1/8 balsa sheet (type of balsa, contest or hard would change stiffness I image) shaped and lightening holes cut. Grain of balsa may be best front to back instead of span wise. This could give a thin stiff flap. For finishing I do not glass 1/64 ply just thin epoxy coat and primer with careful sanding.

looks like you also have a building addiction

(in reply to tubig)

Post #: 102

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/29/2005 2:47:20 AM

tubig

Posts: 963
Joined: 2/17/2003
From: Jungli, TAIWAN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlbecker

How thick is the flap area at the hinge line? Will you be making the hinges?

looks like you also have a building addiction

it's a terrible addiction to have.

the plans are for Platt's 190 so you know the construction methods (i'm sure very similar to your Zeke), and it's a similar scale. i will follow platt's design for the hinges except using pc board instead of the g-10. i find cutting the thicker g-10 to be just too darn hard on my scrollsaw blades. the 0.010 stuff for the flight control surfaces is easy enough with tin snips.

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Tim

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Post #: 103

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/29/2005 3:41:24 AM

carlbecker

Posts: 1635
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Status: online

Well if its Platt then just follow the plans and you will have nice flaps. On the Hamp he really doesn't suggest using flaps as they cause a pitch up when applied. I think this might be the case with most split flaps as I see it on all four of mine.

G-10 is tough stuff. I might get some PC board to use.

Keep up the great work!

Carl

(in reply to tubig)

Post #: 104

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/29/2005 12:15:55 PM

tubig

Posts: 963
Joined: 2/17/2003
From: Jungli, TAIWAN
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pic 1: began skinning the wing top. i'm using the "polymerizing aliphatic glue" method (for lack of a better name). the more i use this the more i like it. it's simple, easy and gives lots of time for positioning. for the uninitiated, it uses regular aliphatic glue on both the wing frame and the wing skin and an iron to attach it in place.

the first thing i did was to tack the wing onto my glass worktable so that the bottom was flat. then i applied glue to the wing frame (spars and ribs) and spread it out with a finger. then place the skin on top of the frame and smooth it out allowing the glue to transfer to the skin. now lift the skin off and add glue to the frame where there are dry spots and remove any excess glue blobs. then do the same for the wing skin. i generally add a small glue line over the existing lines on the skin and smooth it out to make sure there is enough. now wait for about 20-25 minutes so that the glue has a chance to "gel" but not fully dry. photo of the wing and skin in the gelling process.

pic 2: now, place the skin over the frame and position it so that the glue areas match up, get out the iron and iron on your skin. i use a clothes iron set on cotton (i don't know the perfect temp for this, cotton seems to work pretty good). the heat polymerizes the glue causing an instant bond. here is the first panel "ironed" in place. i never have liked skinning because i felt rushed and was never sure if i had good glue joints (especially when applying the opposite side sheeting where you can't see the frame anymore). this method is so much more relaxing.

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< Message edited by tubig -- 12/29/2005 12:18:46 PM >

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Tim

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Post #: 105

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/29/2005 1:35:39 PM

Baldeagle

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From: Lakeside, AZ, USA
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Interesting way to sheet a wing, I'll have to give it a try. Looking good Tubig

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Rich

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Post #: 106

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/29/2005 3:30:29 PM

PlaneKrazee

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From: Westerly, RI, USA
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tubig,

I had heard of this method for gluing but your explaination makes it much clearer, thanks. I saw where it can also be used to make balsa plywood.

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KB1DTB
AMA11123

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Post #: 107

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/30/2005 10:57:05 AM

tubig

Posts: 963
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From: Jungli, TAIWAN
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today, i sheeted the other half of the wing top and the mid wing section.

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Post #: 108

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 12/31/2005 1:10:22 AM

SCALECRAFT

Posts: 1406
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: MONTEBELLO, CA, USA
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Looking very nice.

You even got me charged up enough to layup another one of our 50" span full composite 109F/G. Soon as the holidays are over. I'll layup my wing.

Steve

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Post #: 109

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 1/14/2006 1:11:24 AM

ME109vsP51

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/13/2006
From: Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL
Status: offline

Hello guys!

For few weeks I 've been searching on the Web for a plan to build an 109 E. Finally I found you guys, and looking all pictures and progress, now I'm quite sure about building that beauty.

So I have a couple of questions, and I ask you to help me:

How I buy the Brian Taylor plan?
This plan has all necessary details, like wing ribs profiles or I have to buy laser cut kit, necessarily?

Thanks.

(in reply to SCALECRAFT)

Post #: 110

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 1/14/2006 2:33:59 AM

acontreras

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Havelock, NC, USA
Status: offline

Bob Holmes sells the plans, lasercut parts and cowling/canopy/spinner as three separate products. He sells both the Brian Taylor plans and his own kits, so make sure you figure out what you want. He was out of the E when I got mine, and bought the F instead.

www.bhplans.com

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Antonio Contreras
H-9 P-51 PTS, H-9 AT-6 Texan, Building BT Bf-109F, Guillows 27" Spitfire, CMP 120 Corsair

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Post #: 111

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 1/14/2006 3:14:02 PM

wulf190

Posts: 1097
Joined: 3/31/2002
From: chicago, IL, USA
Status: offline

Tubig,

After watching your posts here and seeing the iron on sheeting method touted in the IMP builder's manual for my 190, I figured I would give it a shot on the foam wing for it. I didn't know what to expect really, but as I didn't have a couple of the inner shucks for the wing cores, I wasn't left with much choice really in method of sheeting and getting a good bond without being suspicious of twisting. I think it took me about 20 minutes to sheet both sides of one half after the glue was applied and had a chance to dry first before ironing down. I loved how hard the bond is. Have to break the wood to get it off the foam. It also had no tendency to pull up on the more curved areas of the airfoil like on the tops of the inner cores near the leading edge.....stuck tight.

. Thanks for putting me over the top on the recommendation. My wing looks awesome now. Keep up the good work. I baled on my Taylor 109E after getting the wing ribs cut and then snapping up the Skyshark version when it came out.

Mike

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Post #: 112

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 1/15/2006 2:06:34 PM

ME109vsP51

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/13/2006
From: Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: acontreras

Bob Holmes sells the plans, lasercut parts and cowling/canopy/spinner as three separate products. He sells both the Brian Taylor plans and his own kits, so make sure you figure out what you want. He was out of the E when I got mine, and bought the F instead.

www.bhplans.com

Antonio, thanks for your information. I sent yesterday an e-mail to Bob, and now we are negotiating 2 plans and some parts.

Thanx again.

< Message edited by ME109vsP51 -- 1/15/2006 2:13:07 PM >

(in reply to wulf190)

Post #: 113

RE: BT Bf109E-4 - 1/16/2006 2:48:08 PM

tubig

Posts: 963
Joined: 2/17/2003
From: Jungli, TAIWAN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulf190

....It also had no tendency to pull up on the more curved areas of the airfoil like on the tops of the inner cores near the leading edge.....stuck tight. . Thanks for putting me over the top on the recommendation. My wing looks awesome now. Keep up the good work.

thanks, mike. i'm not sure from where i read about this method (i sure as heck didn't come up with it) but the more i use it the more i like it. as you say, the sheeting sticks tight and doesn't have the tendency to pull away from the frame. another thing i've noticed is that, in the past, when using weights on top of sheeting i would wet the sheeting which caused it to swell and then as it dried and shrank it would warp the balsa in some places. with this method i don't need to wet the balsa which prevents the warping.

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Tim

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