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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/4/2013 7:58 AM   
Old Fart


 

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From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: online 		Hi fnq,all i've read about saito history and design left me feeling that they settled on a good design early and stuck with it much like harley did.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/4/2013 8:04 AM   
Old Fart


 

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From: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Status: online 		Meant to add that my favourite engine daydream is that saito mass produce something similar to the 200iL kolm 3 cylinder inline fourstroke in the galloping ghost.And could we have the same carby setup that lets the engine backfire occasionally?? man i'd love that.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/4/2013 8:06 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		You got it.  The Saito team looked at the best cylinder design that could be adapted to model a/c engines and went there. P&W radials in particular the commercial ones were the best design to manufacture and in the end the simplest.  And that is what they went with.  Just imagine a Saito with the wet sleeve design of a Centorus, or a Herciules the mind boggles
Catch ya

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/4/2013 9:30 PM   
FNQFLYER


 

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From: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Old Fart, that would be interesting.  If you want to see a lot of Saitos in action come to Canowindra at easter.  They are the engine of choice amongst those who don't feel the need for "real speed and power" (read YS 53 and 63, McCoy 60, and the various modified OS 2 strokes).
In O/T Saitos can be made to do what ever you want with tuning, variations on fuel mix and props.  And this is what makes them, to my mind, the best 4 stroke on the market and in most cases they are built and last as long as the proverbial brick ****house.
A Saito 65 will be my campaign engine for easter.  I am flying to Brisbane (cheaper than driving the 1800kms each way) picking up a Miss Americia to campaign in both Texaco and Duration.  I will be mixing the fuels needed thereand will have my quiver of competition Bolley props but the centre piece will be the 65which has been rebearinged, has a set of new Saito plugs and will all be teasted at Calvert Field before both myself and my old mate head south.
You should come over for at least a look, the mob from WA enjoyed themselves last year.
Raining, sort off today but still not the "real wet"
Catch Ya.  

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/8/2013 7:16 PM   
rowdyjoe


 

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Status: offline 		I am currently building an ARF and the instructions recommend mounting a 4 stroke engine inverted.  I plan to use a Saito .91.  I've heard some negative comments about running a 4 stroke inverted.  Will my Saito run OK in that position?
Comments please.

Thanks,
RJ



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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/8/2013 7:23 PM   
lopflyers


 

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Status: offline 		It will but its tricky. You will have to relearn the starting procedure

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/8/2013 11:51 PM   
mike early



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Status: offline 		Every one of my Saitos are inverted. No problems at all. Cover the exhaust, turn the prop 2-3 turns (depending on how long your fuel line is) and apply heat and start.

If you are going to run an engine inverted, Saito's the way to go.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/9/2013 12:40 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Once it's running it won't know the difference. Take a look at how the carb lines up with tank centerline in that position. In the event of any flooding remember that it can cause hydraulic lock in the combustion chamber. So if in doubt crank the engine over once by hand before hitting it with the starter and bending the rod or breaking the crank pin. If you use a good slug of ARO that can seep past the ring and also cause hydraulic lock.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/9/2013 2:00 AM   
rowdyjoe


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks fellas.  I appreciate the feedback and I feel comfortable mounting it inverted.

Thanks,
Garry


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/9/2013 3:25 AM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

I am currently building an ARF and the instructions recommend mounting a 4 stroke engine inverted.  I plan to use a Saito .91.  I've heard some negative comments about running a 4 stroke inverted.  Will my Saito run OK in that position?
Comments please.

Thanks,
RJ



I'm running an FA91S inverted. Just be careful that you do not overprime the engine as flooding W/the inverted carb/manifold will induce hydrolock. Also make sure your carb fuel line is isolated during tank fill or you can pump the engine full of fuel. Either use a valve that isolates the carb line or pull the fuel line off the carb when fueling.

I don't prime @ all for cold starts. I use an electric starter. W/the throttle all the way closed W/the throttle lever as well as idle trim. (shut down position) I get the engine spinning, then slowly open the throttle W/the idle trim. Keep the engine spinning until it draws fuel & starts at a high idle trim position.

Once the engine is warm, you can use the same idle trim trick to keep the engine from kicking back against the starter.

I can start my 12.77:1 CR high compression FA180HC W/a 90 size starter by clsoing the throttle trim to reduce cranking pressure until the engine is spinning.

< Message edited by SrTelemaster150 -- 1/11/2013 10:35 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/9/2013 4:17 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Sounds like a good trick but how do you hold the starter and plane, then work the throttle lever?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/9/2013 4:49 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		Here is a trick for inverted 4 stroke engines.  Offset the motor from the full inverted / 90 degree position so as to have the exhaust valve pointing straight down.  Thus when you turn the engine over "carefully" all the excess fuel and sludge is expelled before you attempt to start.  Has worked for me and others for many a year.  Comes from handling P&W round engines.  If left for a while sludge accumulates in the bottom pot remove the spark plug (or turn the motor through by hand) and presto no hydraulic lock.  BTB with inverted engine if I feel it "lock" I remove the plug and let the gung rung out before trying to start same.
Sr Telemasters starting procedure is what we used when we "pump" and engine or are running a YS 53 or 63.  Works well and we don't break engines

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/9/2013 4:38 PM   
kochj


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Sounds like a good trick but how do you hold the starter and plane, then work the throttle lever?



YOU CAN MAKE A SMARTER STARTER....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0q5E2IMR4&list=PLF3074174DF4AFCC0&index=1

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/11/2013 8:35 PM   
tkline


 

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From: powell, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Ok I need to ask a question to some of y'all that have a lot of experience with the saito 180's. My question is will this thing start running cleaner after I have run it more ? I have about 1/2 gallon through it on a test stand and it really makes a mess I know I'm still running it on the rich side but it still seems to be excessively messy I was wandering if this is normal for this large of an engine or not I know several of my smaller ones run a lot cleaner the more I run them but in the last 30 years I have never owned one larger that a .91 so I have have any idea how long it takes to get this one broke in good it hand starts easy idles pretty well and transitions good but like I said I'm still running it a little rich and haven't touched the low speed yet. So any advice on this engine would be appreciated.
Thanks Tracy

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/11/2013 10:28 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Sounds like a good trick but how do you hold the starter and plane, then work the throttle lever?



I use some sort of wheel chock behind the maingear. 3/16" nylon sash cord is looped around the tail feathers & secured W/a large "nail" type tent stack keeps the plane from moving forward on the start..

I pull the airframe forward to tension the tie down & chock the back of the maingear weels.

An appropriate length piece of 2X4 ripped @ a 45* angle & secured W/2 more tent pegs works pretty good..

On some smaller airframes W/fixed maingear that angles out, te tent pegs can be pushed into the ground angling down & to the rear right beind the axle next to the weels.

Lots of ways to keep the plane from rolling back. It's securing it from lunging forward that is most important.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/11/2013 10:37 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kochj


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Sounds like a good trick but how do you hold the starter and plane, then work the throttle lever?



YOU CAN MAKE A SMARTER STARTER....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0q5E2IMR4&list=PLF3074174DF4AFCC0&index=1



Now I really like tat concept. I may have to rig someting like tat up on my fligt box.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/12/2013 2:41 AM   
Quikturn


 

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From: West Des Moines, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey everyone,

Does anyone know what the thread pitch is for a cylinder to crankcase bolt on a Saito 91? I know the bolt is a 3.5mm. My guess is that it's a .6 pitch but I'm not sure.


Thanks


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/12/2013 4:43 AM   
kochj


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quikturn

Hey everyone,

Does anyone know what the thread pitch is for a cylinder to crankcase bolt on a Saito 91? I know the bolt is a 3.5mm. My guess is that it's a .6 pitch but I'm not sure.


Thanks


I have a thread guage now, and would not go without one... It was included in a tap&die kit...I thought it
Was a feeler guage! Never had seen one before...
I think you could check it out on true turn website when you look for spinker adapters.
???

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/12/2013 5:21 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		Snap On have a good range of thread guages in both Imperial and Metric, both modern and the "ancient" thread forms.  Like the others I wouldn't be without mine or a good set of taps and dies.  I think at last count I have about 200 of each ranging from 4BA up to I think 1.5 inch covering every type including those things the frnch used in some of their a/c.
Tread giages are a must have item.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/12/2013 1:43 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: online 		This Screw Ckeck'r from MicroMark is what I use, this is the Metric one, it gives you the diameter, thread pitch and what drill to use.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/12/2013 2:39 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		The .65's base bolts are 3.5x.6, sorry about the lousy picture.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/12/2013 5:23 PM   
kochj


 

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Status: offline 		Oops. I thought you said the crankshaft threads....
I somehow missed that.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/13/2013 12:25 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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Status: offline 		Hobbsy,  Avial markets one that does all yours does but also has a provision to measure lenght as well.  Both Aviall and US tools have these displayed on the website.  The Snap On one is expensive (here in OZ) so I only have the ones provided by a generous employer or two.  I also use the TOOL Yard as another source of hard to get, nice to have tools and don't forget good old Tower Hobbies, some of their stuff is good for padding out the order to get reduced freight.
I have acquired a number of fastener measuring guages and devices, even one that translates the bolt dimension from the bolt being "scanned" to the correct dimensional size on a plan / drawing on a computer screen.  Very Mickey Mouse.  
For those looking for these "old fashioned" tools check around the "second hand" shops at your local airport.  The ones that sell parts etc and yes even the a/c wreckers yards.  I have obtained some gems in Tuscon like the tool P&W made so you could adjust the valves on the 1830 while it was running (yes runnning but only at idle).  There is one on the P$W museum in Canada or Maine (I think).  Worked well on Ford V8's.  The last one of those I saw was at Tan Son Nhat when I was at the engineering base in 99.  The bloody Pratt rep grabbed it quicker than me but oh well hopefully it went to a good home 

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/13/2013 1:37 AM   
Quikturn


 

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Status: offline 		Hobbsy, thanks for the info! I have a Saito 91 that turned out to be not such a good deal. I was going to clean it up before I used it and came across discrepancies. One of them being a stripped out screw on the lower left rear cover plate. I believe those are 3mm screws. The cylinder hold down screws are slightly larger at 3.5mm so I thought I would re-tap the stripped out screw for a 3.5mm one. Initially, I wanted to modify a 3.5mm screw into a tap using a cutting wheel but a purpose made tap would be better. I would hate to mess up a crankcase with something not up to the job. I just wanted to be sure which tap I need to order.

Joe


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/13/2013 3:23 AM   
rye


 

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Status: offline 		hi guys
i have a satio 56 that i put new bearings in and i cant find my tool that came with the motor ,what size gage would i use to set the arms and do i need the wrech that came with it or what can i use or where can i get new tools for it ,thanks

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