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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 12:46 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Michael:

No special tool required for putting the prop drive back on. The first time you put a prop on the engine the drive and its cone will lock in place.

Heat is necessary to get the bearings out easily. The front bearing can be pressed, it's easiest just to use heat and do both bearings at the same time.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 12:50 AM   
jlkonn



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Status: offline 		Bill,
When checking valve clearance what method do you recommend to find the correct piston position.
Do you personally even use a gauge or do you do it by feel?
Thanks!
JLK

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 1:04 AM   
a340



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Status: offline 		Thanks William, sounds simple now you have explained it.

Leigh.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 2:29 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		John:

with the rocker cover off you can watch the valve rockers move. turning the engine in its normal direction of rotation you will see the ehaust rocker move to open its valve, then as it closes the intake rocker will move. Then rocking the crank back and forth get to the position where both rockers have their valves just open a little bit. Pull the glow plug and use a toothpick or similar probe to feel the piston position. This way it's easy to find TDC as close as we need to. Use a "Sharpie" or similar to out a marker on the prop drive washer in line with the casting mark on the front of the case. Turn the crank exactly one turn, you're in the right position for valve adjustment.

For the cams that accept the 0.0005" adjustment I will turn the adjuster screw to zero lash, when the locknut is tightened the stretch in the threads will leave you with just enough clearance to feel, this is fine.

The cams with a quieting ramp normally are set using a dial gauge here. One alternate is using a feeler strip of 0.0015" thickness, this is just barely under the minimum clearance, and again the stretch of the threads will add the litttle extra needed. Lacking a feeler strip two thicknesses of cellophane from a cigarette pack is very close.

Another faster way to get to the adjustment position is just turning the prop. You can feel the engine come into compression, as you continue to turn the prop you will feel the crank go over the top and the piston start pushing the crank down. That point of balance bertween the piston going up and down is the adjustment position.

Enough for one session.
--------------------
Leigh:

You are very welcome, sir.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 3:02 AM   
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Bill I need your help. While I was fitting the cowl on my new plane I might have gotten a tiny piece of fiberglass down the high speed valve while the screw was out. I always cover the hole while doing work like that but the last few fittings I got in a hurry and removed the stopper. The Saito 150 ran perfectly before when I tested the tank and checked the mount/firewall, etc for vibration.
Then we got lucky here in Okla and had a perfect day 6mph due north breese. Took it out to the field and we knew something was not right when the high speed needle would not richen the motor anymore. I even think I know exactly when I did the stupid deed as I carved a tiny area around the needle hole on the cowling top.
What should I do ?

< Message edited by Sturtz -- 12/13/2005 3:06 AM >


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 3:11 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Kurt:

That's a simple one. Pull the HS needle, fuel hose, and the throttle barrel. Then with an air gun blow it out from the throttle side out through the threaded part for the HS needle. Your FA-150 should have the sleeve metering low speed, you'll need to be sure there isn't any trash inside it before you put the throttle barrel back in. You'll have to pull the cowl, hopefully the engine can stay in place for the rest.

If a bit of fiberglass has passed through the spray bar it will have been too small to do any damage before being blown out the exhaust.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 3:14 AM   
Sturtz



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Status: offline 		Thank you !! That's good news. Will get 'er done.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 3:54 AM   
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Status: offline 		Thank you for your help Bill. I appreciate that. I will try to get everything out later in the week. I'm just wanting to get the whole engine apart.

Thanks

~Michael~

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 4:05 AM   
Sturtz



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Status: offline 		That was it Bill. I managed to remove the carb without taking the engine off the mount and as I was sliding the barrel out I saw a tiny piece of crap fall out. It was the fiberglass particle. Thanks again.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 4:06 AM   
William Robison



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Here are some shots of valve adjusting. First on the overhaul stand, a CU showing the indicator plunger on the rocker, using a flex stand for an installed engine, finally the 0.0015" feeler being used.

Bill.



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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 4:12 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Kurt:

Glad you got it. I'd still advise giving it a "Blow Job" to be sure there's not another bit in there.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 8:08 AM   
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solafein, why did you have to cut all that on the bottom for the muffler. You pretty much cut all of the bottom out. Couldn't you just cut out a hole right at where the muffler is?

I was being stupid and cut the exhaust manifold down to fit the exhaust inside the cowl, I didn't quite estimate it correctly. At the field, when I maidened it, someone pointed out that I needed better cooling, so I opened it up a little. I then ended up with a nice big burn mark on the bottom of the cowl where the muffler was laying. After cutting away the burnt cowling I realized that the hack job needed a little more not to look so bad. My exhaust also came loose and blew a hole into the balsa piece below the firewall. The moral of this story is not to mess with the manifold and just cut the cowl the necessary amount to clear. Performance Specialties also makes a nice flex exhaust that will prevent all this hacking. I should have put a FA82 in it and avoided this all together, but the 91 flies it so nice. Cruise at 1/4 throttle and hover at 1/2. Give it full juice and watch it become a little tiny dot in the sky. I think the Funtana 40 is made for the Saito FA91.

Bill:
The nut that holds the rod that holds the baffle and end piece in place came loose sometime during my feeble attempt at the sportsman sequence. These pieces are now missing. I now have an interesting opportunity. Will the stock exhaust, muffler and manifold for around $43.24 from Horizon, meet NSRCA regulations for sound, or do I need the flexible exhaust and tuned pipe, $155.92 from Horizon, to meet the regulations with a FA 91? The rules state that I am allowed 96 decibels measured 3 meters from the airplane centerline and 94 decibels if an earth or short grass field must be used. I like the FA 91 so much I am putting one in my 40 sized pattern trainer as well.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/13/2005 8:18 AM   
William Robison



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That limit at 96 db is really loud, so I don't think the stock exhaust would have any trouble meeting it. Wander about and listen to other planes that you know comply, and make your own guesstimate. Personally I'd much rather spend $44 than $156 for something that wouldn't do any better than the $44 parts.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/14/2005 3:13 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		>>> Here is the FA 91 on the Funtana 40, had to butcher the cowl anyway >>>

Nice job! Hard to make it balance, or easy?

Ernie

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/14/2005 4:05 AM   
iflynething


 

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Status: offline 		I'm flying also at 1/4 throttle solafein, and I have a Saito 100. I'm hovering at just above 1/4 throttle. AMAZING!!

Luckily, I got a second Funtana after my wing folded and I have a whole 'nother ARF that Hangar 9 sent me. Anyways, I got another cowl, that this time, I won't mess up the cowl. My cowl on my other Funtana doesn't really look that intriguing either...

~Michael~

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/14/2005 7:42 AM   
solafein



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quote:

Nice job! Hard to make it balance, or easy?


I think that balancing would be impossible without adding weight to the nose if one were to use a FA 82 or less. The 91 and 100 are just about perfect, in every aspect, except folding parts due to too much force and the degree of mount and firewall modifications needed. Exact directions are posted on other threads in the ARF and 3D sections.

quote:

I'm flying also at 1/4 throttle solafein, and I have a Saito 100. I'm hovering at just above 1/4 throttle.


My idea of a hover is a slow climb. I got this engine for my 40 sized trainer on a lark, was hovering, lost control and needed two more feet to make the loop out. Luckilly it only pancaked and did not touch the motor. I promptly went and bought a 3D plane to 3D in, and I had this recently broke in, slightly used FA 91 attached to a disconnected firewall in my car to use. Imagine that. Now I'll just have to figure out how to slip #3 by my wife for the Pattern Plane. I've turned into a Saito junkie.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/15/2005 3:59 AM   
gwulle


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Fellows;
I just purchased my 1st Saito, a 220. I am going to put it in the Hanger 9 Extra 260. Does anyone have and experience with the Saito flexible exausts? I was wondering if the 14mm for the Saito 120,150,180 singles and 270,300 twins would also fit the 220. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gaines

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/15/2005 6:50 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Gaines:

That makes you number 143, gwulle, in the listing.

Check the outside diameter of the exhaust gland nut thread. If it's 14 mm the other accessories will work.

My impression is that Saito has gone to a 16 mm thread as they did for the intake on the 150 and 180 engines. That means nothing will fit.

Hobbsy has one, if he'll check the thread size he can comment with authority on this.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/15/2005 11:10 PM   
Tom Jones



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Status: offline 		#71 here. Bill, or anyone... how do you measure .0005 for valve clearance without a dial indicator? What is comparable, cellophane off a cig pack, or something else? Or is there a do by feel technique? Thanks in advance, Tom.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/15/2005 11:25 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Tom:

With the locking nut loose turn the adjuster screw carefully to zero lash. Holding the screw to keep it from turning, tighten the locknut. The distortion of the threads by the load of the lock nut will give you the minimum clearance.

Simple and easy.

Bill.


< Message edited by William Robison -- 12/15/2005 11:26 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/16/2005 4:34 AM   
gwulle


 

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Status: offline 		Bill;
Thanks so much for the response!! That's about right,that nothing will fit,I am famous for that(LOL). I will check the diamater and see and maybe someone else will chime in here too. Again thanks.

Gaines

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/16/2005 4:39 AM   
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Status: offline 		Bill;
We do not generally run mufflers,on 4 strokes,at our field. Our local Saito guru says they are much easier to tune without the back pressure. Let me clarify the no muffler,we open them up to the diamater of the exaust. I am just learning the 4 strokes after 30 years running 2 strokes.

Gaines

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/16/2005 4:52 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Gaines:

If you unscrew the muffler and leave it off then you are running with no muffler. If you leave the muffler body on and open the outlet to the size of the inlet you still, by having the expansion chamber, have a muffler of sorts.

Mufflers work by smoothing the flow of the gases, the expansion chamber is one way to do it. By having the outlet pipe smaller than the inlet this also contributes to quieting the noise.

The flex pipes have the accordion folds in their length, these act as flow restrictors and also quiet the sound.

Finally, while Saito does supply what seem to be straight pipes, both with and without a pressure nipple, the outlet ends are smaller than the main body of the pipe. Quieting by restriction.

Even a true straight pipe acts a an expansion chamber and does a little bit of noise damping. If you have a long enough pipe it will do very well as a muffler all by itself. But it would be a lot longer than you'd want to have sticking out behind your plane.

Just some points to ponder.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/16/2005 5:27 AM   
Tom Jones



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Status: offline 		Thanks, Bill. That is quick and easy. Would've had to buy 30-50 dollar guage sets to find a .0005. Thanks for the help. Tom

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 12/16/2005 11:56 PM   
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Status: offline 		Bill, I get 15mm where there are no threads but very little of the pipe is not bent

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