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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/30/2009 4:01 PM

Hobbsy

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OF, what is your real first name if you don't mind? The .90TS does not have the hemi like canted outward valve arrangement like the other Saitos. I think the .90TS has what we call bathtub combustion chambers similar to OS and Enya, maybe wedge would a more accurate description.

< Message edited by Hobbsy -- 3/30/2009 4:19 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 8:24 AM

chashint

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If you don't prime the engine the electric starter will spin it right up, it only takes a couple of revolutions to get fuel to the carb and it will be purring like a kitten.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 4:39 PM

Old Fart

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Hello dave,it's peter but pete is fine,i answer to most things people call out from time to time.

Ahh now i think i understand about the rocker cover shape on the 90ts,it relates to motorcycles to re shovelheads/knuckleheads etc??

Cheers mate

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 4:47 PM

Old Fart

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Hi charlie,i understand what you are saying.More referring to the guys i see using them and most don't bother to wind the prop back.I see very few people use an electic starter gently so in a mechanical sense i was relating that to how an automotive starter on your car works,geared down and relatively benign compared to the gut wrenching 12/18/24 volt green hulk machine a lot of people smash into the spinner ready or not,it's only a little saito

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 5:07 PM

Hobbsy

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Thanks Pete my GrandParents and most Aunts and Uncles all called me Davey, also I've been variously called Hobo, Hobby, Hobbsy, Davco, Daver and SOB occasionally. Nearly all my Phone Company Buds called me Hobbsy, so I am he.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 5:09 PM

Upward

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Alright, My first Saito was a beautiful running engine untill I slammed it into a metal pole on takeoff, this metal pole hit the sideways mounted saito .40 right on the two push rod tubes & bent them to hell, The engine wont turn over because since the pushrods are bent one of the valves is depressed? Everything else looks to be good.
My question, is there anyway to fix this engine, or just toss it?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 5:23 PM

Old Fart

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Well davey it is then but i kinda like hobo,feel free to vary mine mate

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 5:28 PM

Hobbsy

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Up, if none of the cases are broken it should be fairly easy to fix. Got any pictures, Thanks

Thanks again Pete.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 5:31 PM

Old Fart

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Alright upward,be patient and bye and bye someone will come along with a serious answer,in the meantime i offer this..are you serious??

you really mounted your saito sideways??no wonder you are having trouble,it's gotta be mounted upside down.You would'nt have bent pushrod covers then you ninny

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 5:54 PM

w8ye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Upward

Alright, My first Saito was a beautiful running engine untill I slammed it into a metal pole on takeoff, this metal pole hit the sideways mounted saito .40 right on the two push rod tubes & bent them to hell, The engine wont turn over because since the pushrods are bent one of the valves is depressed? Everything else looks to be good.
My question, is there anyway to fix this engine, or just toss it?

Call these people they repair them

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 7:13 PM

frets24

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Upward,

Sounds like a relativly easy fix. Order a new set of rods and covers/tubes. Remove the rockers and loosen the 4 socket cap screws holding the cylinder to the case. you should be able to leave the screws just barely threaded to the case so the cyl can be pulled up about 3/16" or 1/2mm up. it shouldn't be necessary to remove the cyl completely.

grab the end of the push rod with a set of needle nose pliers and pull them out through th top of the cyl/rocker chamber. it may be that you'll have to try to straighten them a bit or manipulate them around to get them out...no worries on extra damage to covers and rods, they are trash. a business card or similar slid between rod covers and cylider will protect the cyl from scratches and such.

Take note of the orientation of the rod when it comes out...there is a top and bottom. one end is round and the other tapers to a smaller point. (the small end goes to the rocker as I recall...Verify, anyone?)

once the rods are out you can remove the tubes...save the o-ring seals if the new covers came without. install the new covers and seals, then tighten down the cyl. Drop the rods down through the rocker chamber and reassemble the head. make sure to reset the valve lash and check again after 4 or 5 full tanks of fuel.

If the rods are so bent that you can't get them out without pulling the cyl further then go ahead and pull it further up for clearance. it should be possible to get them out from between the head and case without pulling the cyl off of the piston, especially the ring, completely.

My thoughts are that the ring and cyl wall have mated and there are thousands of micro grooves lined up between the two of them that took alot of time to create thus giving optimun compression. if you can maintain the integrity of that alignment all the better. it's been my experience that rings don't rotate as I once believed. If you have to pull the jug completely that's fine over time they'll mate just as well as they were before, just expect a slight degrading of peak and lowest stable idle RPM till it works its way out again. then you'll not be disappointed if it is, and thrilled if it isn't affected.

have fun

< Message edited by frets24 -- 3/31/2009 7:16 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 7:42 PM

frets24

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What's the peak RPM that I should expect with a 90R3 and a 14x6 prop on 15% nitro? the motor seems strong and putts along @900 reliably with the MCD-473 glow driver on/1150 off, so the break-in appears to be done well. transition is great. about 2 gallons of fuel through it. I know that it's actually running on all cyls when I tach it at 7400. Does that sound low? I' ve got an fa62 in the ME109 that does 8900 on a 13x8 and pretty rich, not actuall peak.

I've got this 90 radial in a Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel and it just seems too small...near 0 climb...I mean NOTHING...and wallows around like near stall the whole time at full throttle. CG is right and set up has been checked, rechecked, and checked again. needed some up trim to maintain alt (once I finally got any) According to others this thing flies great at 10lbs on a fa62 or 65. over powered on an os 70 or fa82 or 90/91. and according to horizon it gives stellar performance with the 90 radial "like the two were made for each other". I'm at 11lbs2oz due to the 2.25lbs of lead in the nose and I'm thinking that maybe I'm not getting as much out of the engine as I thought.

< Message edited by frets24 -- 3/31/2009 7:45 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 8:07 PM

leedees

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chashint

If you don't prime the engine the electric starter will spin it right up, it only takes a couple of revolutions to get fuel to the carb and it will be purring like a kitten.

Charlie, that's a fine suggestion.

Thanks

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 3/31/2009 9:24 PM

w8ye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: frets24

What's the peak RPM that I should expect with a 90R3 and a 14x6 prop on 15% nitro? the motor seems strong and putts along @900 reliably with the MCD-473 glow driver on/1150 off, so the break-in appears to be done well. transition is great. about 2 gallons of fuel through it. I know that it's actually running on all cyls when I tach it at 7400. Does that sound low? I' ve got an fa62 in the ME109 that does 8900 on a 13x8 and pretty rich, not actuall peak.

I've got this 90 radial in a Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel and it just seems too small...near 0 climb...I mean NOTHING...and wallows around like near stall the whole time at full throttle. CG is right and set up has been checked, rechecked, and checked again. needed some up trim to maintain alt (once I finally got any) According to others this thing flies great at 10lbs on a fa62 or 65. over powered on an os 70 or fa82 or 90/91. and according to horizon it gives stellar performance with the 90 radial "like the two were made for each other". I'm at 11lbs2oz due to the 2.25lbs of lead in the nose and I'm thinking that maybe I'm not getting as much out of the engine as I thought.

The Saito multiple cylinder engines have a lot of torque but internal friction holds the rpm down. One of the worst examples of this phenomena i s the 90R3. One guy runs a 13-6 on his. But in your case, you may need more pitch. You need to try a 13-8 prop on the engine to see what your plane does? All your stated numbers look good for what the engine normally does.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 3:12 AM

charlie1960

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Fellas, i've got a .40 Cub...with a 71 inch wing.....it SAYS its 40 size.....
anyway, what size engine, 4st of course would you put on this thing...
by the way, its a very nice plane...70 bucks new in the box...

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 3:19 AM

jdkxtreme

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I have one with a saito .82. Way over powered when I take off I make cub pilots turn over in there grave..I have a buddy that has the same thing with a saito .56 and also flys great. More scale than mine. That is just what I had at the time..What cub is it for that price?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 4:47 AM

w8ye

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The Horizon and Great Planes 40 size Cubs are more than happy with a Saito 56 or even a Saito 50

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 4:49 AM

Upward

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Thanks for the info, I ordered my replacement parts of the saito FA40a.
I should be able to get this engine running again.
By the way, I had mounted it sideways because it was on a profile airplane.

Here are a couple quick pictures.....Airplane is toast.

Pictures are not working, sorry

< Message edited by Upward -- 4/1/2009 5:01 AM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 4:51 AM

w8ye

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Upward

Thanks for the info, I ordered my replacement parts of the saito FA40a.
I should be able to get this engine running again.
By the way, I had mounted it sideways because it was on a profile airplane.

Here are a couple quick pictures.....Airplane is toast.

What would be another good airplane to put this Saito .40 in??

What was the old one?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 5:46 AM

GaGeeBees

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quote:

ORIGINAL: frets24

What's the peak RPM that I should expect with a 90R3 and a 14x6 prop on 15% nitro? the motor seems strong and putts along @900 reliably with the MCD-473 glow driver on/1150 off, so the break-in appears to be done well. transition is great. about 2 gallons of fuel through it. I know that it's actually running on all cyls when I tach it at 7400. Does that sound low? I' ve got an fa62 in the ME109 that does 8900 on a 13x8 and pretty rich, not actuall peak.

I've got this 90 radial in a Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel and it just seems too small...near 0 climb...I mean NOTHING...and wallows around like near stall the whole time at full throttle. CG is right and set up has been checked, rechecked, and checked again. needed some up trim to maintain alt (once I finally got any) According to others this thing flies great at 10lbs on a fa62 or 65. over powered on an os 70 or fa82 or 90/91. and according to horizon it gives stellar performance with the 90 radial "like the two were made for each other". I'm at 11lbs2oz due to the 2.25lbs of lead in the nose and I'm thinking that maybe I'm not getting as much out of the engine as I thought.

7400 is low, even with the 14x6. You should be making 7,900 - 8,000. With the 13x8 you should get 8,400 - 8,500. I don't think you're hitting on all three. What kind/size battery are you using to power your onboard glow? It's got to be NiCd - NiMH will not work. Also, if you haven't already, you may need to begin leaning out your low end. I'll bet you a Coke that the lower left cylinder (looking at the front of the engine) is staying cold.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 11:39 AM

frets24

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NiCd 3800Mah C-cell 4.8 pack. measured at 5.58v fully charged. I know all the cyls are firing because that was my first thought as to the problem. I'm using an exhaust collector ring so I use a temp reader to see that all heads are same temp and that the usuall suspect isn't acting up (cooler than the rest). It's got great compession and is the easiest to start of all my 4s. truelly the prime, energize and 2 flick max to start. Lsn is as close to perfect as it gets evidenced by the low speed performance...900 rpm with glo heat /1150 without reliably. it'll hit those numbers for as long as it's got fuel and transition without a hitch or dropping a cyl. it'll do as little as 350 on/ 600 off for 30-40 seconds but that slo then it's also 50/50 as to whether or not it'll quit or transition on all three. I'm going to pull the engine and check it without the ring. according to one of the guys at the field (from his real world 170radial experience) it should do better with the ring than without, so we'll see.

anyone else running this engine that has some real experience numbers? with or without Keleo ring? GaGBs, you didn't say if your #s were from real experience, or just reasoning...either way that's about what I thought to expect; at the very least. I really have a hard time believing that an FA62 would outperform this 90r3 by ALOT, even with the inherent induced and parasitic drag of a radial. if what i'm seeing is the best it gets then that makes for a really fancy, heavy 56 power size engine too big and heavy for a 50 size plane and it's incredible it has ever survived the market as long as it has. ( not to mention it'll either be for sale or become a really expensive paperwieght!...probably the later 'cause it's a really cool looking and sounding motor)

< Message edited by frets24 -- 4/1/2009 11:53 AM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 1:48 PM

GaGeeBees

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My numbers are from experience. I just sold my 90r3 (and my 3.25r5) a few weeks ago at the Perry GA swap meet. I was not using the collector ring on my 90. I do have a Keleo collector on my 1.70r3 and don't really notice a big performance difference between it and the stock straight pipes.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 5:32 PM

Upward

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The old airplane that the Saito .40 was on was a Morris Hobbies Pen Knife. I would like to find a small float airplane or seaplane that this engine would fit, Any Ideas???

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 5:45 PM

w8ye

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You may look at some of the electric airplanes being offered as potential subjects

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 4/1/2009 6:18 PM

leedees

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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

The Horizon and Great Planes 40 size Cubs are more than happy with a Saito 56 or even a Saito 50

w8ye gave me this advice as well and he is absolutely correct. My H9 Cub 40 flys like a dream with the Saito 56, very scale with plenty of reserve power. Takeoff at half throttle and cruise at one third.

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