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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/27/2005 6:02 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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I've never tried any accessory exhausts on a 4s engine, other than running a pure straight pipe.

Experience on 2s engines has been that most aftermarket mufflers need careful carb adjustment, even more than with the stock mufflers, to get reliable engine run.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/27/2005 10:20 AM   
freeonthree



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Status: offline 		Here's one of mine... If ya saw my other post, this is the 72 that does'nt want to idle smooth below 2500 rpm, but I still love it... We'll figure it out someday. LOL

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/27/2005 11:10 PM   
IronCross



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I picked up a low milage 1.20 today real reasonable... The box says FA120S... Has a G stampted on the engine lug.. Cast intake pipe, curved exaust pipe and a stack on it. The crankcase vent is out the back cover.. Not sure I like that.. From you pictures in previous posts it appears to be the AAC version... Question, is there any way to tell if this is indeed the "S" version by looking at the engine ?.. If I understand what you have said correctly the S version is hotter version of the 1.20 ?...
Thanks
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/27/2005 11:32 PM  1 votes
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Dennis:

What I can see of it, looks like a nice plane.

Have you checked the back plate for flex? Might be the problem.

You are in "Club Saito" as number 67, Dennis Flora.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/27/2005 11:54 PM   
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2- 30's, 2-56's, 2-72's, 3-91's, 1-100, 3-120's
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:03 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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Positive identification of the various big block engines can be a little difficult, but I think what you got is the latest version of the FA-120. If it's a white box it's almost definite.

ABC/AAC - in the first picture you can see the cylinder fins extending over the cam box, this is the ABC cylinder. Contrast that to the second picture with the fins much smaller. The smaller fins are the AAC type. Contrary to what you might think, the smaller fins give no loss of cooling since the brass/aluminum joint was less efficient, the ABC needed the larger fins, the AAC does not. The AAC therefore is lighter not only by eliminating the cast in brass sleeve, but less metal is needed for the fins.

In the first picture note the push rod tubes going all the way down to the cam box, this is the "Low cam" engine. In all the others, if you look closely, the "Lump" in the rubber is well above the cam box, this is the sign of the "High" cam. Fifth picture shows it clearly.

The third picture shows what you probably got. The early hot FA-120S still had the cast sign "FA-120" on the right side, the later ones have the sticker that says only "120S" there. This was probably an economy measure for Saito, using the same casting for all the big block engines and just putting the right sticker on each size. Internal machining is different, but the outside is the same.

All the parts of the original FA-120S and the later version will interchange except the cylinder and intake pipe. Since the original version had only the o-ring seal for the intake pipe it also had a metal mounting bracket added to support the carb.

Hope I've covered your questions, if not let me know.

Bill.

Pictures:
1) FA-120 ABC, low cam.
2) FA-120S AAC, high cam, pipe intake, hot version.
3) FA-120S AAC, high cam, cast intake, current version.
4) FA-120S AAC, hot version, different view.
5) FA-120S AAC, hot version,showing cam box.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:13 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Mr Michaud:

Consider yourself number 68, Meesh.

Good to hear from you again, and welcome, sir.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:15 AM   
freeonthree



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Status: offline 		Seems fine... We think it the carb, so were gunna try another one from a 65 that idles as slow as any Harley. LOL That will be a good starting reference... Here's the rest of the plane. I've been flying it for about 2 years, and Im sad they discontinued them... I would buy another, and this one is really gettin used up. Lots of hours on the poor thing...

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:28 AM   
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< Message edited by Skypilot_one -- 9/30/2005 8:23 AM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:31 AM   
IronCross



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In reply to post 255
It appears to be picture #3... Based primarily on the intake manifold with the 90 degree bend in it... It did come however in a gold and black box.. Dang, Thought I had a hot one ..
Does the back cover vent cause lubrication problems with the cam etc ?..
Also there appears to be some carb parts in the box... A spray bar, HS needle etc which appear to have been repalced... Was there an upgrade to the carb on these...
Haven't fired it up yet but it appears to have good compression and all...

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:42 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Brian:

All the big block Saitos have had the cast intake pipe except the one version of the FA-120S. And there weren't too many of them made.

IC:

If yours is shown in the third picture of post 255 you got a genuine FA-120S, just not the version with the curved intake and the free flow muffler. They were still using the black and bronze colored box at the time. Latest shipping has the white box.

Yes, there was an upgrade to the carb, came out about two years ago.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 12:52 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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Sorry, didn't address the case vent.

All the Saitos, going way back in history, have had the vent in the back plate until they replaced the metal back plate with the plastic one. Starting with the FA-72 and the plastic plate, the vent was moved to the bottom of the crank case under the cam box. Better cam lubrication was an added benefit.

If you wish, the first time you tear the engine down you can move your vent, either to the late location, or put it in the top of the cam box. On the bottom you'll need some reinforcement, JB Weld or similar should work. There's enough metal in the top of the cam box not to need anything else for the threads there.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 1:54 AM   
Meesh



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Status: offline 		Thank You William!

I've been doing some lurking lately but little posting. I have been very busy with work things.... UGH!

< Message edited by Meesh -- 9/28/2005 1:56 AM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 2:16 AM   
IronCross



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Pretty much what I was curious about...
Found some paper work in the box... The engine
was purchased 07/00..
IC

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 5:47 AM   
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Status: offline 		I've been thinking about adjusting my low-speed needle on my .82 leaner since I've got a lot of flying time on it now and would like to see if I can improve the idle and transition. Also, most of my flying is done at half throttle or less and it seems to run very rich even though the high speed needle is set pretty lean. I've read in a couple of places that the low speed needle is normally set rich from the factory with the screw about flush with the throttle arm. I have never adjusted mine but it is far from flush (see picture). I guess I'll try turning it in 1/8 turn at a time and see what happens. Any thoughts?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 6:16 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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The flush initial setting was with the metal throttle lever. With the later plastic lever the flat of the LS adjuster is roughly 1/16" down at the factory setting - the thickness of the plastic at that point.

With the engine on the stand (if you can) peak the HS and drop to as low an idle as you can hold. then just start turning the LS in SLOWLY as the engine will take 5-7 seconds to respond. As you lean it the rpm will rise when you're getting close to optimum, lower the idle trim to keep it down. When you think you have it pinch the fuel line to check. The rpm should stay steady momentarily, then fall. If the "Rs" fall immediately you've gone too lean, and if the rpm rises before it falls you're still on the rich side.

When you think you have it, open the HS needle about one turn and go to full throttle. Peak the HS, then go rich to get your 300-400 rpm drop, and check transition in the normal way, trimming the LS to get it right.

Now you should have an engine that idles a lot smoother, and burns less fuel, with no decrease in power available.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 7:38 AM   
av8r1



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Status: offline 		Thanks Bill. "idles a lot smoother, and burns less fuel, with no decrease in power" is just what I'm looking for.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 7:41 AM  1 votes
William Robison



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That's what we're all looking for, and a properly adjusted Saito gives it to us.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 7:51 AM   
freeonthree



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Status: offline 		Took the ol Super Stearman flyin tonite for a while. I must have the low end pretty colse, it idled nice and smooth for a change, but still does'nt like to run below about 2500 rpm.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 3:52 PM   
Meesh



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Status: offline 		Dennis,

If you can't get below 2500 rpm at idle, your low end isn't "close enough". You should be able to get it to 2000-2100 without difficulty.

With your transmitter and receiver on, start the engine, get it good and warm and set the high needle to peak RPM-300. Remember this RPM reading. Now bring the engine to idle. Close the low end needle about 1/16 of a turn, throttle up to clear the engine of excess fuel then bring it down to idle and try to close the throttle a little with your throttle trim or your end point adjustment. Bring it down to the point where it just starts to stumble and check the rpm. If it's not low enough repeat the process until you've achieved the proper idle speed. After you've done this several times and achieved a satisfactory idle, go back to the top end and see if you can still achieve the peak RPM-300 that you previously saw. If you cannot get back to the high RPM previously seen, it means that the low end is too lean. Yes, the low end needle does affect the high speed setting.

It's a time consuming process but once you get the needles set you shouldn't have to mess with them.

Bob

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 4:19 PM   
IronCross



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dennis Flora

Took the ol Super Stearman flyin tonite for a while. I must have the low end pretty colse, it idled nice and smooth for a change, but still does'nt like to run below about 2500 rpm.


I have two of the .72's and I am happy to get 2500 with either of them.. My .56's I can get a lot lower but my .72's just don't like going below 2500 without a onboard glow driver... They are both great running engines though.. I am running 15 percent fuel with an APC 13X6 prop on them..


< Message edited by IronCross -- 9/28/2005 5:36 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 5:19 PM   
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What glow plug come with a new Saito ?

Phil

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 5:46 PM  1 votes
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Status: online 		They come with a Hangar 9 Super Plug the latest version looking very OS-f like.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 5:52 PM   
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Anybody using the big one 2.20 ?

Phil

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/28/2005 9:00 PM   
freeonthree



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Status: offline 		I have a 56 also, and it will idle down like an old Harley. I have never seen a 72 idle down like most Saito's will. Im curious... has anyone out there got a 72 that will idle down like that ???
And yes, with the glow starter on, it will really idle slow and smooth.

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