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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 3:39 AM   
PLANE JIM



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Status: offline 		what cleans the exterior of saito without taking the finish off-rc buddy told me to put engine assembly in a pot of hot water and table spoon of cascade dishwasher soap-I think that may be too caustic-what do ya'll think-thanks #42

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 3:48 AM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		Here's my little .30 Bill did. Jim, I've cooked few engines in antifreeze but never tried a GK Saito or Irvine.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 3:51 AM   
William Robison



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You're on the list as #44, all you need is SigMan's chop to make it official.

Tell us more about the FA-220 please.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 4:00 AM   
PLANE JIM



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Status: offline 		Thanks for the info Bill

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 4:00 AM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		PJ (42):

If you speak of the GK version, the hot antifreeze doesn't affect the finish - it's anodized, not painted. My early engines were Imron or baked enamel, the A/F was OK on them too, but I'm currently using a butyrate laquer spray and the A/F will probably take it off. The cost of the Imron, then the time for baking made me switch. The butyrate holds up fine in service.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 1:36 PM   
PlaneKrazee



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Is that a 8X6 or 7X4 three blade on that .30.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 1:45 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		It is an 8x6 three blade, it has spent most of its life turning a Graupner 10x5 or 10x6 depending on the runway grass length. It turns the 10x5 at 10,100 rpm I forget the 10x6 numbers. WR had it for a few months and came to think of it as a Little Giant.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 2:29 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		That little FA-30 is a surprisingly strong engine. On the 10x6 it ran 9550 rpm.

Bill.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 2:36 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		Bill, seeing that fancy tach reminded of the first tach. I ever saw. It came in a Williams tool chest, a huge orange one, you had to feel a bump the came around every 100 rpm and keep an eye on your watch. The .30 is also very reliable only stopping when the grass reached up to the prop, the prop never reached down to the grass.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 3:32 PM   
William Robison



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Status: offline 		Hobbsy:

The one pictured is a "Jaquet's Indicator," a recording tachometer that holds the reading until you take another. I also have a Jaeger direct reading "Chronometric" tach that indicates current rpm - pull it off the shaft being measured and the needle immediately drops to zero.

The Jaquet, with its prescaler reads to 100K rpm, the Jaeger gives direct reading to 3K, with its prescaler it goes to 30K.

For bragging rights the Jaquet is better, you don't have to take the picture while the engine is running, but for adjustment the Jaeger is better - you don't have to wait for the reading.

These are both mechanical, and take their operating power from the "Device Under Test." As a result, the readings are always a bit lower than would be given with an optical tach. The FA-30 at 9550 rpm would be 9800-9900 rpm with an optical device. In spite of the loading I still prefer the mechanical for the accuracy and repeatibility of reading.

The Jaquet is still on the market, cost is about the same as a high quality optical.

Bill.

< Message edited by William Robison -- 9/9/2005 3:34 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 11:17 PM   
av8r1



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Perhaps you'd like my "Black Knight" version. This is what they look like when I finish one.

Bill.




That's cool. Is there a benefit other than looks to having a black cylinder? Also, I noticed the stack on the carb in your last picture. The GK .82 had one of those too. Do they make any difference?

Thanks.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/9/2005 11:42 PM   
William Robison



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The dark colors radiate heat better than lighter colors, the best for radiation is a flat black. Since a flat finish is difficult to maintain, and also has to be thicker than a gloss coat, I just use the shiny paint. Not a great difference between the matte and gloss finishes in radiation anyway.

The intake stacks help a lot, but not in power. I'm sure you've noticed the drop;lets of fuel shooting back out of the carb when the engine is running - the stack keeps them in the air flow of the carb, they get drawn back in, and used by the engine.

This gives two immediate benefits. One, the inside of your engine compartment doesn't get all that raw fuel sprayed around. And Two, you can generally lean the needles a bit, giving better fuel economy. As much as 15-20% longer flying time on the same amount of fuel. Really.

A few months ago we had a thread in Glow Engines about stacks, many posts told of people having the same result.

A third benefit, if you like, is being able to mount a Bru-Line air filter on the engine.

All my Saito engines in service have stacks with the air filters mounted.

Would you like a 20 minute flight from 14 ounces with a 120 engine? Truly, I don't know if I could make 20 minutes, but with 14 ounces my UltraStick has fuel left after 15.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 12:04 AM   
PlaneKrazee



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The stacks really work to save fuel. Flying a 81" GP Chipmunk for ten minutes with a stack equipped Enya 155 and a 16 oz tank I still have over 8 oz left in the tank when I land. 80 cranks to fill, 30-35 cranks to refill. Before adding a stack there was more spooge from the carb than from the exhaust.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 1:06 AM   
William Robison



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Just added number 45 to our list, Ed Moorman signed up by email. His username on RCU is his real name, as is mine.

For those who don't know him, he writes the "Fun Aerobatics" column for R/C Report magazine, and is a whale of a flier as well as being a genuine nice guy.

He is a flying buddy too, a member of my local club.

His most sterling quality, in my opinion, is that he has become fully "Twinsane." Now has four or five twins, and even one triple engined plane. Very few of us twinsane people around, it's nice to have company.

He also has one of my reworked Saitos.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 2:48 AM   
Hobbsy



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Status: online 		WR, I just read Eds eval. of the CedarHobbies TwinStick in RC Report and one is on the way for two Enya .25 Diesels. Mine won't be as fast as his but I don't like fast that much. Ed had trouble with the nose being heavy or I would use Saito .50s, they are light enough but would be too far forward.

< Message edited by hobbsy -- 9/10/2005 2:55 AM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 3:04 AM   
UltimateFlyer120


 

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Status: offline 		OWild1 let me hold his FA 220! I want one!!! I will have one soon!!!

Victor

< Message edited by UltimateFlyer12 -- 9/10/2005 3:06 AM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 3:15 AM   
William Robison



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I don't know how happy you'll be with the TwinStick and the little diesels. My TwinStick has a pair of K&B ringed 40s on it, they give enough for me but I wouldn't want any less power either.

If you do find yourself unhappy with its performance get a TwinStar from Tower for the 0.25 diesels, put a larger pair of diesels on the TwinStick.

A word of warning in re the TwinStick - reinforce the firewalls. Specially with the hammering the diesels will give. Put at least three hardwood pins through each side into the firewalls. Four is better. Use some thinned epoxy to paint all the surfaces inside the nacelles, and in the fuselage around the landing gear block. Wont add much weight, and it will reinforce everything. Some tri-stock around the LG mount would be a good idea too, if Neil hasn't already added it in the later planes.

Ed's TwinStick and mine were from the very first batch, several changes were to be made on the later ones. Mostly what I've just said you should do, the rest was minor hardware changes.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 6:08 AM   
rangerman



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Status: offline 		I have a new 91 and it runs great. I have a used 1.20 that is not up to standards and is leaking around the pushrod tubes. If I rebuild it, what parts should I replace and what parts SHOULD be fine. I know it needs the o-rings in the pushrod tubes and around the needle valve and probably a valve job but should I go more. I don't know anything about the engine, I got it in a trade...thanks, Tim.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 6:15 AM   
PlaneKrazee



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How is the compression and overall running of the 120?
You can change the gaskets and o rings, lap the valves with Mother's mag wheel polish and replace the ring. That should do it.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 7:00 AM   
William Robison



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You are number 46 in the club.

Now to your FA-120.

First, look at the cam cover. Do the cylinder fins reach out over the cover, or does it look like the cover can be taken off with the cylinder in place? With the fins out over the cam box you have the ABC engine, the small fins are the AAC cylinder. The ABC version has bronze valve seats, OK to lap the valves. The AAC cylinder has hard chrome seats, plated on the base metal aluminum. Do not lap the valves in the AAC cylinder. If you grind the plating down, it will flake and the cylinder will have to be replaced. Use a pencil eraser (a big one) and spin it on the seat if it needs cleaning, chuck the valve in your Dremel after yu clean the seats and use the eraser again to polish the valve. If the valve leaks after this, replace it. Install new valve springs, they lose their tension after a period of time, and they are cheap.

The cylinder bore, whether the ABC or the AAC, is the last thing that will wear out in your engine. I have replaced only two cylinders that weren't crash damage. One was destroyed by an owner who ignored the bearing noise, bits of the bearing scraped nice grooves in the chrome plating on the cylinder wall. The other was an AAC where the owner knew he should lap the valves. Cost him more than he wanted.

The piston, if you can check it, should have 0.0005" to 0.0015" skirt clearance. Or give it a good inspection by eye. If you still see the grinding marks over most of the skirt it's fine to re use. The con rod should have about 0.0005" clearance on the wrist pin, up to 0.002" on the crank pin is OK. Install a new piston ring.

Wear on the cam lobes is OK, pitting or visible damage is not. If you replace the cam you must replace the tappets at the same time, or risk cam failure.

Install a new ceramic bearing at the rear of the crank, and if you wish use a ceramic at the front also. Just be sure the front bearing is a rubber sealed one, the shielded bearings will leak oil badly.

The oil leakage from the push rod tubes indicates either a very high time engine, or a plugged crankcase breather nipple. The only way for oil to get there is past the tappets. If the ring has a lot of blowby, the internal pressure can force more than the normal amount of oil past them. Or they themselves are worn to a very loose condition.

The tubes don't have o-rings on them anyway, and the rubber seals are only sold with new pushrod tubes.

That's enough for now. Read it through, look at your engine, then ask more questions as you think of them.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 2:48 PM   
av8r1



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The dark colors radiate heat better ...

The intake stacks help a lot, ...

Bill.


Thanks Bill, I knew I should have researched those things more before buying like I usually do, but I just couldn't wait any longer to get my first Saito. I wondered why there was so much fuel all over the engine after a run. I would definitely have gone with the GK if I'd known these things beforehand. I'll have to find out if I can add an intake stack to my non-GK .82 now.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 6:58 PM   
William Robison



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The intake stack for your FA-82 is the same one that fits from the FA-65 up to the FA-100 - all the mid block engines use the same one. About $6 -$7 from Tower. And since they'll charge you the same freight whether it's one bit or several, order the Bru-Line fine mesh air filter at the same time. And a pack of extra filter elements.

And if you want to get "Saito Fancy" add the new Saito branded fuel filter. It's expensive, ($9.75) but it's really a show piece. A machined aluminum, base with a genuine glass bowl that removes for cleaning, and a fine mesh filter element. It even says "Saito" on the metal bas4 part. Just think of the bragging rights. I had to get one to examine when I first saw it. I like it.

Intake Stack: SAI50GK93 $6.75
F-1 Fuel Filter: SAI50109 $9.75

The Horizon web site crapped out while I was looking for the air filter, sorry. Total for the filter and the packet of spare elements is about $6, so it's well worth the expense.

Bill.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 9:48 PM   
av8r1



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The Horizon web site crapped out while I was looking for the air filter, sorry. Total for the filter and the packet of spare elements is about $6, so it's well worth the expense.

Bill.


That fuel filter looks sweet!

Thanks for the detailed info. Looks like the intake stack is out of stock until Nov. The intake stack's Alpha codes indicate it is for several models from the 45S thru the 91S, but not the .72 and there's no code for the .82.

Are these the filters?

Thanks again.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 9:56 PM   
IronCross



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Status: offline 		I have the stack Bill is refering too on my .56 and .72 thanks to Bill's expertiese if that helps any...

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 9/10/2005 10:31 PM   
William Robison



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Yes, that's the filter and replacement element pack. Looks like my memory was faulty on the price, but still not expensive. When I first saw them I bought about a dozen filters, and an entire display card of the elements. Have not run out yet, after eight or ten years.

Horizon's assignment of Saito part numbers makes some sense, and leads to some confusion also. The prefix for all is "SAI," then the engine size it was FIRST applied to.Not necessarily the only one it fits. In the case of the particular stack we're talking about it starts as "SAI50GK" meaning first on the FA-50 Golden Knight. After the "K" comes the individual part number. Sometimes this is the same as the index number in the parts breakdown for the individual engine, but it's safest not to worry about it, just use it for ordering. And the SAI50GK93 stack fits ALL the mid block Saitos. 56,65,72,80,82,91, and 100 sizes.

Some Horizon/Saito part numbers are out of left field, relating to no particular engine. As an example the fuel filter. If you have a question about any part Horizon has a free call to ask questions, they are very helpful.

Bill.

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