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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 1:33 PM   
Cougar429


 

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Status: offline 		How does switching to EI affect the nitro content requirements?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 2:29 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		Fred, I don't see how a slow burning fuel like AV gas would be an advantage in an RC engine. I see the advantage in a slow running full scale engine @ 2,750 with the cylinder head temp at the top of the green.At 9,000 to 10,500 the faster burning 87 octane would be an advantage in the Saitos.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 3:09 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cougar429

How does switching to EI affect the nitro content requirements?



It eliminates the need for nitro.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 3:20 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Fred, I don't see how a slow burning fuel like AV gas would be an advantage in an RC engine. I see the advantage in a slow running full scale engine @ 2,750 with the cylinder head temp at the top of the green.At 9,000 to 10,500 the faster burning 87 octane would be an advantage in the Saitos.


X2 ^^^^^

Contrary to what some believe, higher octane does not = more power. All it does is slow the flame propagatioin.

Higher octane permits an engine to take advantage of a higher compression ratio and/or a more aggressive spark advance & it reduces detonation tendencies @ higher cylinder head/combustion chamber temperatures.

In a low compresion engine, or even a moderate CR, higher octane will reduce power.

I leaned this 1st hand drag racing my highly (street) modified 5.7 Hemi powered 2006 Dodge Charger. The 1st time I tried 110 octane racing fuel, my 60' times climbed by .2 of a second. The engine felt strong @ the top of the RPM range, but it was a real dog out of the hole. Never revisited the racing fuel after that. The 10.4:1 CR just could not take advantage of that much octane.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 3:26 PM   
retransit



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Status: offline 		Totaly agree from what I have read in magazine tests and the use of racing gas at the track in my Trans Am.

Bob

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 5:11 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Let's get back to glow fuel Saitos.......

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 7:00 PM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		Great post on converting using the the C&H ignitions SrTelemaster. I will definitely be referring to that. One thing that bothers me about using CDI with glow fuel is that I would still have the mess and clean up associated with the glow fuel. The power increase and better fuel consumption is most interesting, amazing really.

If converting from glow to gasoline we still need to run a totally different carb though, right? That seems to make the conversion more complicated and expensive.

Thanks, Ernie

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 7:46 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Great post on converting using the the C&H ignitions SrTelemaster. I will definitely be referring to that. One thing that bothers me about using CDI with glow fuel is that I would still have the mess and clean up associated with the glow fuel. The power increase and better fuel consumption is most interesting, amazing really.

If converting from glow to gasoline we still need to run a totally different carb though, right? That seems to make the conversion more complicated and expensive.

Thanks, Ernie



C&H has a gas carb/manifold for the 120/150/180 series listed on the site for $65. I'm not sure if he has something for the smaller engines. You would have to call Adrian.

As far as the mess from glow fuel? Since the fuel volume is reduced by 20% (25% increase in run time = a 20% decrease in consumpsion) the mess is reduced some.

I have been experimenting W/inlet outlet check valves on THIS THREAD.

Since fresh oil is being pulled through the engine constatly, I wonder how much the oil content could be reduced?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 9:02 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		I marvel every time I see people fuss about the oil on the plane. That oil is the very life blood of the engines internals. I have been wiping oil from planes since 1956 when I built my first profile F-86 and mounted a McCoy .36. I was 14 then and 70 now and its just part of enjoying model flight.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 9:08 PM   
Frank Schwartz


 

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Status: offline 		Re: The oil on the planes.... Gentlemen: The smell of the castor oil is great....and the cleaning up of the plane is not such a big deal. I keep some windex in my field box and a rag.....and on rare occasions, I take the plane upstairs to the kitchen and put it nose down in the sink and really scrub it down....no big deal. Some people like to use synthetic oil thinking it will make the plane cleaner after running the engine. My experience with synthetic oils is that it makes the engine run hotter and decreases the life of the engine. I have engines that are decades old and run on castor or castor blends that still have plenty of get up and go. And just think when you run an engine with castor and it gets on you, you might absord a bit of it. I've never known a modeler who used castor oil in their fuel that was ever constipated.......................
Frank Schwartz AMA123
building and flying for 76 of my 86 years....87 next month.....happiness is building and flying model airplanes..................

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 9:24 PM   
hsukaria


 

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Status: offline 		Besides, we are talking about 4-stroke engines here. That's nowhere near as slimy as 2-strokes. I have a gasser that still spits out soot on the leading edges of the wing and tail. Big deal!!!

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 9:26 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		Good show Frank, there is hope for me in all this RC madness and at 70 I still ride my Harley.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 10:06 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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Status: offline 		I use Formula 409 to cut the really bad build-up from a long day flying followed up by the Windex. The 409 just seems to cut through the large build up faster, but it leaves streaks. The Windex gives a nice "polish".

Besides, the after flight cleanup is a good time to thoroughly inspect the airframe. I have found many small problems that way before they became big ones.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 11:02 PM   
rowdyjoe


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe


I have to disagree concerning stainless firearms barrels and chambers.  I've had a few and still have one.  Chrome is the cure for chamber and barrel errosion and better functioning.  Stainless is more pourous, traps more crud, and requires more thorough cleaning IMO.  However, it is better for corrosion prevention but, not as accurate as a chrome lined bore and chamber.  On this issue I have 20 yrs experience as a military firearms specialist.

RJ



I too prefer CM steel barrels, but many benchrest shooters swear by SS. They assert that the SS barrels last longer (accuracy) in their particular application.


Sr. Tele,
     That's probably true when comparing CM to stainless but, I'm refering to CM barrels that have been chromed lined.  I can recall changing M-16 barrels (used in training) with over 100k rounds through them and they were still holding sub 4" groups.  A fresh barrel would hold 1" or less if properly installed (and the shooter was capable).  Surprising for a mil spec rifle at that time.  Not benchrest accuracy but, certainly more than acceptable.
     It's been 28 yrs but, I can still recall the detailed records we had to keep on our equipment.  The initial CM barrels were good for about 40k to 60k rds and malfunctions were moderate (compared to others rifles).  The chrome lined barrels virtually eliminated malfunctions due to carbon build up and accuracy and durability improved greatly.  They still required cleaning but, it was much easier to do so.

    After recalling this, I guess I should have ordered the chromed bearings but, I'm sure the stainless will out last the airplane and me.       
I wonder if anyone has done a longevity comparison between bearing alloys?  It would be interesting to see how they perform.  There's a lot of data around concerning hardness, etc. but, a good head-to-head real world test would very informative I think.  Wonder if the engine manufacturers have any data on this issue?





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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 11:18 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Dave, do you have a drip pan for the Harley?

I use a very good quality wax on models. I just got 2 bottles of Liquid Lustre yesterday if anyone remembers that wax. Any oil wipes off quick and easy if you keep somw wax on the covering. I don't use any cleaners. Bug stains come off easily with a soapy rag.

A glow Saito doesn't really look good until castor begins to cook on it.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 11:31 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

quote:

ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe


I have to disagree concerning stainless firearms barrels and chambers.  I've had a few and still have one.  Chrome is the cure for chamber and barrel errosion and better functioning.  Stainless is more pourous, traps more crud, and requires more thorough cleaning IMO.  However, it is better for corrosion prevention but, not as accurate as a chrome lined bore and chamber.  On this issue I have 20 yrs experience as a military firearms specialist.

RJ



I too prefer CM steel barrels, but many benchrest shooters swear by SS. They assert that the SS barrels last longer (accuracy) in their particular application.


Sr. Tele,
     That's probably true when comparing CM to stainless but, I'm refering to CM barrels that have been chromed lined.  I can recall changing M-16 barrels (used in training) with over 100k rounds through them and they were still holding sub 4'' groups.  A fresh barrel would hold 1'' or less if properly installed (and the shooter was capable).  Surprising for a mil spec rifle at that time.  Not benchrest accuracy but, certainly more than acceptable.
     It's been 28 yrs but, I can still recall the detailed records we had to keep on our equipment.  The initial CM barrels were good for about 40k to 60k rds and malfunctions were moderate (compared to others rifles).  The chrome lined barrels virtually eliminated malfunctions due to carbon build up and accuracy and durability improved greatly.  They still required cleaning but, it was much easier to do so.

    After recalling this, I guess I should have ordered the chromed bearings but, I'm sure the stainless will out last the airplane and me.       
I wonder if anyone has done a longevity comparison between bearing alloys?  It would be interesting to see how they perform.  There's a lot of data around concerning hardness, etc. but, a good head-to-head real world test would very informative I think.  Wonder if the engine manufacturers have any data on this issue?





Well since SS has a chrome component, it might be that chrome lined CM is the best of both worlds. CM for hardness/precise machining W/the chrome to resist errosion/corrosion W/O the sofness/poor machinability of pure SS.

In out engines, the corrosion resistance of the SS bearings will probably equate to longer life over carbon steel.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 11:43 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		Nope, Harley's haven't needed anything like that since about 1983 when AMF took a hike. Note clean floor, the plywood is oily from changing the oil filter.

The fire hose nozzle muffler that came on my 1.50 was very ugly with castor for a long time. The cast muffler and then the TurboHeader that replaced have not gotten uglied up yet and probably won't since I'm a user of Teflon Plumbers Tape.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 11:47 PM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Yup,and i really like that bronze colour they go too.

Congratulations frank and agree with your comments.I once put a couple of drops of castor oil into my beer just to see if it would affect the taste...testing purposes only of course

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/11/2012 11:47 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Sometimes, real engines need them.

Leaking/weeping/seeping front bearings never bother me.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/12/2012 12:34 AM   
lopflyers


 

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Status: offline 		Oh come on man, the cleaning as many people has pointed out, is part of the joy of a day in the field.
I keep a mixture of alcohol, windex and dish washer in my box and chat with my buddies while cleaning and checking my planes for problems.
If you don't like to clean, get electrics for the field and a maid for home


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/12/2012 1:14 AM   
blw



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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/12/2012 1:18 AM   
vandorpe3@earthlink.net


 

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Status: offline 		Saitos are the best four cycle engines out there. The only beef I have is the bearings. I replace mine with Boca Bearings ceramic lite. They last for years.
YS they run strong for a season ! That's all ya get. Pump issues

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/12/2012 2:13 AM   
Fred L



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Status: offline 		ok, how do i remove the prop hub? gonna put some new bearings in my 91 saito and i've reached a stopping point. heated the prop hub only with a torch and no go, do i have to get a puller of some sort and what's the best one to mate up with the hub? I was told to put the case with the crank in the oven at 350 degrees for 30 minutes and she'll drop right out.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/12/2012 3:25 AM   
mike early



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quote:

ORIGINAL: vandorpe3@earthlink.net

Saitos are the best four cycle engines out there. The only beef I have is the bearings. I replace mine with Boca Bearings ceramic lite. They last for years.
YS they run strong for a season ! That's all ya get. Pump issues


1 post every 2 years. He knows what he's talking about.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 10/12/2012 4:04 AM   
SrTelemaster150



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ORIGINAL: Fred L

ok, how do i remove the prop hub? gonna put some new bearings in my 91 saito and i've reached a stopping point. heated the prop hub only with a torch and no go, do i have to get a puller of some sort and what's the best one to mate up with the hub? I was told to put the case with the crank in the oven at 350 degrees for 30 minutes and she'll drop right out.



A 3-jaw puller should get the prop hub off. Preferably the type W/the cage to keep the jaws in the grooove of the hub.

The oven trick is a good one. Have a cutting board handy & bump the rear end of the case down sharply on the board. The crank & rear bearing should fall right out.

Have a 6" long 1/2" wood dowel on hand & you can tap out the front bearing while the case is still hot. Insert the dowel through the case against the back of the front bearing & bump the end of the dowel on the cutting board. The case will fall away from the bearing.

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