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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/18/2013 4:03 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

Posts: 520
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From: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		What's this SPA an aerobatic version of SAM?? ( Society of Antique Aeromodellers)

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/18/2013 4:23 AM   
Fred L



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Status: offline 		check the pressure line at the muffler or the tank , it may have come off or is obstructed

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/18/2013 5:12 PM   
Quikturn


 

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From: West Des Moines, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Here are some SPA examples.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/19/2013 1:51 AM   
JWQ500RC



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From: Visalia, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks all for the suggestions. I think I've found the problem The neddle valve wasn't seating. I had a new one and it so far seams to work fine.
I'll know more tomorrow.

Jim

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/19/2013 3:03 AM  1 votes
blw



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From: Opelika, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Fnqflyer- sorry about that. Yes, it's pattern flying by the old rules before the more modern engines. Keeping competition simple and inexpensive are goals of the rules on types/sizes of engines allowed.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/19/2013 5:36 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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From: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Interesting prospect, this SPA thing.  My old mentor has a number of early aerobatic kits that he is just getting around to building.  One problem with it though is that the supply of old engines are running out.
We in SAM solved that by allowing modern engines with handicaps.  The advent of modern radio is a great boom to Old Timer type flying but you have to be aware of the "old codgers" that really want to use up those old Kraft sets.  Though we have solved that problem as well by taking a page out of the US hand book of competitions.  We have transmitter throws.  The older the set the bigger the handicap (your favour) and the prise, a brand new modern set.  You can see the obvious in this I trust

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/19/2013 10:03 AM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Hi mate no i don't you mean the better you get with the old transmitter and radio gear the more modern stuff they give you?? sounds more like a punishment for doing well and knowing your stuff

As for the lack of old engines just follow the funeral trail..you know those mean old buggers take them to the grave.When i'm flat on my back with the lid securely glued down they can shove me in the furnace engines and all.All that aluminium and other organic particles will be mixed with seagull poop and scattered over my favourite flying field by rc aeroplane,what a bang!

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/20/2013 1:49 AM   
FNQFLYER


 

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From: Cairns, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Old Fart, we in the SAM chapters have people who read the death notices and when one of our brethern bites the dust a delegation from the local chapter visits the widow and offers to clean up his shed / building room and remove all the "rubbish and yucky modelling stuff, some have even offered (in te spirit of good friendship of course) to assist in turning that area into a craft room for the greiving widow.
Off course the old open rocker Saitos, McCoys etc are all removed as part of said rubbish.  And as for "allowing" you to have your engines in your coffin, I just call in my green mates to remove them after all we can't have you poluting the place can we???
Seriously though most of the old engines that ae suitable for competition are pretty well known off including the stuff the guys are getting from the USA.
David Owen is making a "small fortune" making replica Burford engnes as I gather are our chinese modellers.
I am putting together a chinese rip off of a Kyusho Calminto all I can say is it is very economically built model.  I have put a small tube set of Araldite into it as well as 1/2 a bottle of Zap.  We progress it will be powered by a Saito 56 or a Supre Toger 40 with tiger paw muffler (italian built of course).  It is raining humidity 90% so the aircond and fans are working overtime both in the house and the shed.  Even the bush rats and water pythons have moved into the shed in anticipation of my building (both engine and model) activities.
Catch Ya

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/20/2013 4:05 AM   
rowdyjoe


 

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From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: online 		Finally finished the model I have my FA-91GK mounted on.  Here's a picture of the installation.  It's sitting on the balance machine in case you're wondering. 




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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/20/2013 3:38 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quikturn

Here are some SPA examples.

What engines are allowed in the SPA?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/20/2013 7:37 PM   
AeroFinn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpeye22

 Thanks FNQFlyer,
        Everything you suggested was fine but one thing.  I had to use a flashlight and look in through the prop exit hole with the prop and spanner removed to find it but.  The throttle arm was being depressed by the top of the cowl.  So at anything above about half throttle the grove in the throttle barrel was holding the throttle open but when the throttle setting was dependent on the little spring in the carb that pushes out on the throttle barrel the cowl was pushing it in and shutting down the engine.  I made a new throttle arm that has the arm on the side of the barrel nearer tha carb instead of at the end of the barrel.  It now rotates and moves in and out without touching the top of the cowl.

       Thanks for the help all.





Sharpeye22, I'm happy to hear your problem has been solved!

However, I'm having trouble with hunting idle speed of my FA-125a. Upon a closer look at the carburettor I noticed the barrel moves in and out inside the carb body without rotating. This enables the fuel mixture vary as the endplay is about 0,5mm (maybe a bit more) resulting the engine idle speed hunt.
I checked a brand new carb at a LHS and it was all the same. (I think Bill Robinson has this subject covered in his "Complete Saito Notes" but he does not address any solution as to how to fix the endplay of the carb barrel)

Anyways, my intention is to modify the carb to operate in the same way as the Saito 1507180/220 carbs:

Saito 150/1807220 carbs all have a spring to push the barrel toward the lever end and thus maintain the fuel mixture even.

How could I installa a spring to the FA-125 carb, too? Where to get a suitable spring that fits inside the carb?

Or is there any other fix that has proven to work to help maintain the fuel míxture consistent by avoiding the barrel move in and out without rotating the barrel?

Thanks, Artto


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/20/2013 8:20 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AeroFinn



I'm having trouble with hunting idle speed of my FA-125a. Upon a closer look at the carburettor I noticed the barrel moves in and out inside the carb body without rotating. This enables the fuel mixture vary as the endplay is about 0,5mm (maybe a bit more) resulting the engine idle speed hunt.
I checked a brand new carb at a LHS and it was all the same. (I think Bill Robinson has this subject covered in his ''Complete Saito Notes'' but he does not address any solution as to how to fix the endplay of the carb barrel)

Anyways, my intention is to modify the carb to operate in the same way as the Saito 1507180/220 carbs:

Saito 150/1807220 carbs all have a spring to push the barrel toward the lever end and thus maintain the fuel mixture even.

How could I installa a spring to the FA-125 carb, too? Where to get a suitable spring that fits inside the carb?

Or is there any other fix that has proven to work to help maintain the fuel míxture consistent by avoiding the barrel move in and out without rotating the barrel?

Thanks, Artto




Not only do the 120/150/180/220 engines have the spring in the carburetor, it seems that the 56/62/72/82/91/100/115 have them also.

Part # SAI91S90 is used in the 82-115 engines while the smaller engines use a similar part. Scroll down on the page linked below, it's the 7th part illustration down.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/fa-115-aac-with-muffler-al-SAIE115#t4

Seems to me that some slight relief cut into the end of the FA125 carbuetor barrel for clearance would allow room for this.

Why in the world did Saito eliminate this on just the 125?

< Message edited by SrTelemaster150 -- 1/20/2013 10:59 PM >

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/20/2013 9:10 PM   
Quikturn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


quote:

ORIGINAL: Quikturn

Here are some SPA examples.

What engines are allowed in the SPA?



For regular pattern, any model designed and flown before 1976 can use any 2-stroke up to .61, can use a pump but not an over sized carb like the OS 61SF-P's had. A .91 4-stroke that is not super charged or with an air chamber (like YS) can be used and there are allowances for electric as well.

Here's a link to the SPA competitors guide: http://www.seniorpattern.com/pdf/SPA%20Competitors%20Giude%202011-2012.pdf

Rowdyjoe's A-6 Intruder is a SPA legal example which by the way looks great!



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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 1:22 AM   
hsukaria


 

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From: Dearborn, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I just received a used Saito FA-82 that has a bent needle valve and jet tube. The rest of the carb is ok, from just looking at it. Can I just replace the the needle and tube?

I plan to replace a Thunder Tiger 75FS with the Saito FA-82. How much power increase can I expect? Thanks.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 9:31 AM   
w8ye



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Status: online 		Yes, , , , But if the tube is the design with the vee notch in the discharge end, the notch must be as accurately towards the engine as you can get it.


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 11:39 AM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Read your post and was wondering if the engine has had a big nose first dive into the ground recently,with the prop off and spinning it does the crank look like it has any runout?

The thunder tigre 75 is a good reliable engine,as you know,the eighty two is lighter and much more powerful if you are flying it in something like a decathlon.It's a buzz

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 1:34 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		As Jim said, this slot needs to be straight up when looking down through the carb from the engine side. Woops, wrong picture. #2 is right.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 2:20 PM   
hsukaria


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks guys. I looked at the Horizon Hobby website. It shows the new case 82 (FA-82b). Is that spraybar the same as mine?

I plan on using this engine on a Great Planes U-Can-Do 46. So, I need a 3D prop. The maximum recommended prop pitch for that plane is a x6. So, would a 14x4W or a 14x6 work with the FA-82?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 2:34 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		The .82 turns a 14x6 about the same as the .91 did.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 3:28 PM   
AeroFinn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150





Not only do the 120/150/180/220 engines have the spring in the carburetor, it seems that the 56/62/72/82/91/100/115 have them also.

Part # SAI91S90 is used in the 82-115 engines while the smaller engines use a similar part. Scroll down on the page linked below, it's the 7th part illustration down.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/fa-115-aac-with-muffler-al-SAIE115#t4

Seems to me that some slight relief cut into the end of the FA125 carbuetor barrel for clearance would allow room for this.

Why in the world did Saito eliminate this on just the 125?


SrTele, I'm thinking about the same..Thanks for the link I will order that spring and let's see if I'm lucky enough to fix this issue


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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 5:45 PM   
w8ye



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quote:

ORIGINAL: hsukaria

Thanks guys. I looked at the Horizon Hobby website. It shows the new case 82 (FA-82b). Is that spraybar the same as mine?

I plan on using this engine on a Great Planes U-Can-Do 46. So, I need a 3D prop. The maximum recommended prop pitch for that plane is a x6. So, would a 14x4W or a 14x6 work with the FA-82?


the spray bars ae the same



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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 5:48 PM   
hsukaria


 

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Status: offline 		Great, thanks for the info. I will order it today.

I also seem to recall from previous discussions here that the plastic crankcase backplate could cause some vibration issues? Would the latest metal version be of any benefit?

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 6:12 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		From what I've read here the metal back plate is of great benefit, I never had problems with the plastic backplate and Dar now has my .72 and has not any problem either.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/21/2013 7:45 PM   
hsukaria


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

From what I've read here the metal back plate is of great benefit, I never had problems with the plastic backplate and Dar now has my .72 and has not any problem either.

Thanks Hobbsy. If the metal backplate from the new case will work on the older version, I might purchase it anyway and try it out. For sure I will get the spraybar.

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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO ! - 1/22/2013 1:35 AM  1 votes
blw



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Status: offline 		From what I remember, only one person posted about problems with his 82 plastic backplate.

My 72 gave me and W8YE a lot of headaches.

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"It doesn''t take but one Auburn man to be a majority" -
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