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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 7:53 AM   
shauntot



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Aj and Joel,

Thanks for the tips about the CG, tried to do the things you guy said, and I came up with these. Pics are worth a thousand words so I'll let you guys decide if my CG is ok or not.

The last pic is to show where my fingers were on the wings when I was checking the CG. Hope it was correct

Sorry, used a phone cam so quite blurry..

Thanks!
Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 9:00 AM   
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Hey guys..just an additional question..does my motor/prop angle from the side look ok? This is with the 8.5:1 speed 400 motor and the 8x4 carbon fiber prop..was just wondering if it was too/high or too low so I could correct it beforehand. Thanks!


Hey Joel check out what I did to my antenna..I couldn't thread it back to the original hole in the fuse in front of the tailwheel..punched a pinhole on the side and it's now under the wing. You think it's better if I tape it so the end to the wing also so it doesn't show at all when viewed from the side?

Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 12:37 PM   
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Hi Guys!

Glad to see the thread is doing so well!

Ok, let's see if I can address these in order:

CG for MiniZero: Ace, if you downloaded plans, the CG is usually indicated by a circle with alternating blk/wht checks. Sorta like four squares, alt blk/white in a square pattern, then cut by a circle. This is the universal standard for marking CG. Otherwise, a 1/3 chord (measured from leading edge) seems to be very common for more stable aircraft. While there are many exceptions, even my nitro planes from the dark ages balanced out somewhere between 30-35% of chord. I can't really speak for pusher designs, however, and you may want to check general or scratch-build forums for more tips!

Offset Thrust for J3: Shaun, looking closely at all my planes, they seem to have a bit of down and right thrust offset to them. This is looking from centerline horizontally and vertically. Maybe 2 or 3 degrees down angle, 1.5 to 2 degrees right (looking from pilot view towards front of plane.)

Again, I'm no expert, but these are values that I have seen and/or gathered from RCU, RCGroups, various magazines, books, and fellow pilots in the local club. There are always exceptions in this hobby, i.e. a 3-D model likes to be very tail heavy in order to perform high-alpha maneuvers but for us novices I believe a more forward-oriented CG is better. It ensures that the plane, if a dead stick, will descend gently forward. In a stall situation, it will also help the plane to stabilize if sticks are returned to neutral position. It all goes back to form following function in aircraft design.

You'll notice almost all 'Trainer' type aircraft share many similiraties in design:
High Wing
Built-in Dihedral or Polyhedral
Foward CG placement
Slow speed
These similarities are no accident! (NO PUN INTENDED ) They are designed to make the plane very stable and to be able to right itself after pilot error. With my SDM Cub, I can pull a snap roll and let go of the sticks. If the plane is properly trimmed out, it rights itself! Of course, I allow myself a minimum of 150-200 feet of altitude before I try any stunts and I'm already on my second Cub.

No flying again today, guys, winds haven't dropped below 10 mph and have been blowing steadily all weekend. Keeping my batteries charged, though...

Cheers,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 2:40 PM   
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Hey Joel,

Thanks very much for the input. Now I know how to align my motor. Judging from my sideview pics of the cowl, would you think my motor is already aligned nicely (from the side, as I forgot to point it towards the right a bit)

What do you think of my CG (judging from the pics)

Thanks man,
Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 7:57 PM   
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Hey Shaun,

That's exactly where my CG ends up. As to antenna, looks clever! Do a range check before you go up...

Only issue that may come up is antenna coming loose from wing and adding drag. Probably negligible though. Knock wood, the winds are low this A.M., I may be able to get up this afternoon. Will get back to you with more reports--no flying for 5 days !

Cheers,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 8:02 PM   
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Joel,

Hopefully it doesn't come off in midair Anyway, the wing is really sticky as I've scotch-taped the whole thing before then removed it, the "stickiness" is still there when I removed the tape, and that's how the antenna sticks to the wing. I've also added a piece of tape at the wing tip just to be sure

Thanks for the range tip..and hope you can fly and come back with some nice vids for us!!

Knock em dead!
Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 9:27 PM   
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Hey Shaun,

Yeah, I was really going nutso being unable to fly...

Got really motivated with all the hits the thread was getting! Oh well...will file full report and vids when I can. In the meantime, I might upload stuff to my RCU profile.

BTW Shaun, saw your Kavan post. Here in the U.S., Sig Mfg. is the official Kavan distributor. Google SigMfg if you want to order Kavan stuff.

Laters,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 9:42 PM   
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Hehe..same here, nothing to do so I just edited my profile yesterday

Thanks for the SIG link, unfortunately they don't carry the model (Partenavia) that I'm looking into, I've been looking all around the web for it, and found only one american site finally that still carries it. I'm just waiting for their reply. All the other sites on the web are in europe but I was looking specifically for an american site so the shipping to Virginia will be cheap

Just waiting for your vids man..don't forget to do some loops and rolls for us!!!

Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 9:50 PM   
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Yeah,

I hope wind dies down enough so that I can finally go up. Went looking for a multi-charger this weekend, and got totally confused about what to get...

Leaning towards GP Triton, haven't seen the Swallow advance yet, clerk tried to sell me a $280(!) german masterpiece but he didn't know anything about it. Gonna hit up other shops later this week and get SOMETHING...

Shaun, how do you like your swallow advance?

Thanks,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/12/2005 10:55 PM   
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Joel,

I was leaning towards the triton before but I figured I could get the almost the same amount of features in a cheaper package such as the swallow. The swallow has the exact features as a multiplex ln5014 but the swallow can trickle charge lipos after they peak. not that i can use that yet as i dont have lipos, but i really like using the swallow. its simple enough to get use yet has enough features for an advanced user.

i charge the 600mah for the cub in around 40 mins (safe charging rate) and if i want to go faster, its possible. i don't do it though as im just twiddling my thumbs nowadays coz still cant fly my cub due to the wind so ive got all the time needed to charge. very happy with it.

here's more info on it dude.
swallow advance charger

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 1:01 AM   
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Hi Shaun
I have been interested in a charger as well because I have a couple of cars as well as 3 different planes and everything takes a different battery. I checked out the link and it looks good, do any adapters come with it or do you have to buy the ones you need
I have been talking to wife about setting up spare room for hobby room and setting up charging station
Does this unit work off AC or is it DC and portable only. either way I like it I just need to know because I would like to have both
I have a handfull of wall chargers now and they are all over the place when I'm charging batt
I have 2 portables but not very good ones
Winds have picked up here again
Well maybe this weekend will be better
Have a good one
Ace

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 1:10 AM   
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Ace,

Welcome to the wonderful world of trying to find a decent charger !!!! Like you, I have R/C cars and R/C boats that take 7.2v/8.4v NiMh and NiCd batteries. I've been all over web and RCU looking for advice on chargers. I think I've got it narrowed down to a couple of different models but I'm gonna be picky...

GP Triton
Multiplex AC/DC w/ 3 outputs
Hobbico Elite

Seen the Triton up close, gonna look for other 2 locally. I like to kick the tires when I'm spending more $ on a battery charger than on a whole plane ...

BTW, what cars do you have?

Laters,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 1:39 AM   
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Hi Joel
Keep me up on what you find on chargers, Wife and I just started discussing it this weekend because I had chargers all over kitchen and den, So I haven't started looking yet. My cars well they are what I would call cheapies, they are RC Lightning I bought one for my son for Christmas and liked it so much I went and got myself one, now the wife and me are the only ones that run them
They are actualy pretty fast, looking at changing tires because stock tires don't hook up well in sand or loose dirt, will fly on pavement
Also thinking about taking them apart and relieving them of some non essencial weight, I took them to local outdoor RC track once and speed wise was in class with lower electric racers but couldn't hook up on track kept sliding out of bounds

OH Yeah made maiden flight with mini zero this morning and I have to say she flew like a well tuned and oiled brick
now motors won't run, might be batt or ESC. will have to find out before any more attempts to crash can be totaly succesfull
I am going to adj wing to create pitch but not sure it will do the trick, I checked this morning and it weighs 7 onces with batt but at 75 COG, still have to solve that issue or scrap it and start over, either way it was fun to build
See Ya
Ace

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 2:05 AM   
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Ace,

That's what makes this hobby so interesting. Just checking the mods that other people have tried and scratch builds all over RCU gets my creative juices flowing! As for adding reflex (continuous up-trim), work with your stabilizer (rear wing) and try different angles. A good way to get an idea of how much or how little reflex you can build in is to go to your nearest LHS and pick up one of the Guillows hand launch gliders. The stab slides into a slot on the back of the fuselage and the slot is cut at an angle. I don't think you want as much pitch as that, however; you'd end up looping all over the place or stalling from too high Angle of Attack.

My two cars are a Traxxas Bandit with an Epic 17-turn motor hop-up (pretty quick, but I need new tires too), and a HaiBoxing Cross Tiger monster 4wd truck (eBay special.) Both great fun to bash around the local car track, which just happens to be 1/2 mile from Bennett Field R/C airport. Guess I'm pretty lucky !

As for hobby room, I don't have a guest room anymore...all my stuff is in there to protect it from my cat who just loves to chew on foam, antenna wires, battery connectors...

See Ya,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 3:52 AM   
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hey all,
just posting for the hell of it....
nice to see we are @ three pages!! just got back from flying my dragonfly....zzzzzzzzzz
no its fun, but i need some more excitment i brought my dad and a video camera along,of course i didn't forget to charge the battery, but i forgot to check the tape ..it was full....
oh well, wed is my cub delivery day...i cant wait!!
good flying all!!
pat

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 5:39 AM   
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Hi Joel
I know what you mean that is what got me going on trying to build first one so soon
I know the feeling of having a hungry animal we have a dachsund and he eats anything he can get to. So far we have kept him away from planes and cars but wallets, money, eye glasses whoa
I was thinking about using the angle from my firebird on both because it has a nice gentle but steady climb,the outlaw not the commander. Oh yeah it's still MIA I will have new battery to try tomorrow, I hope thats all it is
I'm going to order some 6x3 props tomorrow but I think I will also get 7x4 because I was impressed with the performance, I figure I will put 6x3 on and fly it and if happy I will stick with it, I look at it like this I can replace batt for $10.00 and motor for 10.00 so if I cause them to have short life not to great a cost, that is staying stock which is all I need for now
Gota Go Have a good one
Ace

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 8:22 AM   
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Yellow!

Hey this thread IS growing this is a nice as this was my first post in RCU..anyway, Ace, no, unfortunately doesnt come with adapters, only alligator clips/w wires and a pair of gold plated banana plugs. It runs off DC 11v-15v, it's portable since it's small and light enough, but rugged since the case is made of aluminum.

I use a ac-dc converter that gives off 12v so I hook the swallow up to that and I can charge at home, then for portable charging, I just fashioned an old car cigaretter charger that also gives off 12v, then I plug that into the car's cigarette port then hook up the swallow. I use that while driving to the field to peak charge my batts.

Here's a pic of my "charging station" hehe. The big black box is the ac-dc power supply, the white is my Maha charger for the transmitter radio batteries, digicam, what have you that uses AAAs and AAs. And of course to the right, the swallow.

Hey we're all the same, before I flew, I drove! I used to race before using glow cars, mine was a Serpent. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that in America, but here, Serpents rule over all the other brands and they had a class on their own, you couldn't race with Tamiyas, Losis, Ofnas, etc. They were really fast, could probably go up to 60-80kmh. Too bad I sold it already way back. Too much maintenance though, I've learned my lesson, that's why I'm sticking with electric planes!

Shaun



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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 8:51 AM   
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Hey guys, one of my cubs comes tomorrow. Not sure if Im going to fly it quite yet, as I want to get more Stick time with my slow stick. I made my maiden flight today, and it was a blast! I posted about it here.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3353631/tm.htm

But now Im even more excited about trying out the cub.

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 11:42 AM   
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Skid,
THAT'S AWESOME!!!!

GREAT PIX!!! Looks like you got the right plane! I will get videos some time this week, promise... No flying again today, winds calm during day ( had to work) put picking up again past 10 mph in the evening.

Before you unpack wings and fuse from Cub box, make sure to start charging your batt. Should take about 2.5-3 hrs. max. You'll get best performance from the included NiMh batt after about 3-5 cycles. When hand-launching Cub, don't be afraid to give her a HARD, STRAIGHT AHEAD throw and let her get up to flying speed. I let mine fly straight for 50-75 yards until it begins a gentle climb. I then perform a series of gentle, climbing turns to get to altitude. After 2 or 3 circuits of my flying field, I'm at a comfortable enough height to start having fun . Cub will do loops but only from a shallow dive, will snap roll right before stall, all mild aerobatics that Rudder/Elevator controls can do. Best thing is that if properly trimmed, it will right itself due to high-wing, high-dihedral design. Literally flies itself, just ask Shaun about his maiden flight! Only grief I have is that it seems a little under-powered, so I'm going to try a LiPo upgrade to reduce weight and get some more flying time in.

Congratulations again Skid !!!

Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 12:02 PM   
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Shaun,

Yeah, I guess once you get bitten by the R/C bug, it's tough to not want to try cars, boats, and of course, planes. Your Mugen Serpent is also very popular here in the US, there's a guy in the car club that has over $3k invested in his alone. He also runs a couple Mugen MBX-5 "just for fun." Must be nice to be sponsored...imagine getting free R/C stuff to use!

Anyway, no flying again today...AAARRRGHHH! I will get those vids somehow if the wind ever dies down .

Laters,
Joel

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 12:18 PM   
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Hey Joel,

Yeah, it's hard to get bitten by the bug...this hobby's damn expensive!! That's why I thought of just flying EP to bring down costs as I already know how much that amounted to when I was still using cars.

Anyway, I'll pray that the winds calm down over there so we can see those vids! don't forget to do the acrobatics man

Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/13/2005 8:14 PM   
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Hi Shaun and Joel
Just a quick note, stopped in at LHS today and picked up new props for cub, was talking with nornally stuck up worker and suddenly conversation and tempo changed when I was telling him about you guys helping me solve CG problem and then getting cub to fly so good, told him about averting another nose bashing but broke prop. Then I asked him about local flying club and it was like I had suddenly become part of the group, He invited me to come on down and talk to pres and join club, said no worries about buddy box mostly they would help so I wouldn't crash but wouldn't connect to my controller they would stand in cockpit if I wanted to help
That made me feel better because now I think I can get more help while in store
He told me I should stay away from low wing planes for now unless I just had more money than since

Later guys
Ace

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/14/2005 8:25 AM   
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Bad news guys. So I went out and flew my slow stick again today. Had a blast, and then went home, and put my Cub together. I cant stand the radio it came with. So I decided to swap the reciever, with the one out of my cessna so I could use my other radio. Changing the crystals didnt work. But I left the speed controller in there that it came with. I tested, and tested, and tested, and everything worked great. Got down the the field, did a radio test, and everything worked great. So I was ready to go. I tried ROG, but the damn thing would not go in a straight line to save my life, no matter how much rudder I gave it. So I decided to hand launch it. Gave it full power, and my friend gave it a good throw. Now the crappy part. At only 30' out, the motor just turns off. I was able to pull up just enough to not nose dive. So I thought ****? Looked the plane over again. tested all the controls, switches, buttons. Swung the plane around like made with the motor running and there was no problem. So I tried again. He throws it, and the same spot about 30' out, the motor shuts off. I barely saved that one, kinda screwed up the landing gear, and the prop got a little bent. So I said, lets go home. But he talks me into one last try. We AGAIN tested everything, gave it WOT, checked all the connections, shook the plane around like mad, and the motor never shut off. So he throws it the last time, and it flew about 40' out the motor shuts off AGAIN! This time I wasnt able to save it. Straight down into the ground from about 20' Broke the nose off just like Shaun. I was able to glue it back together, but the motor shaft is ever so slightly bent. But Im sure it wont have any problems flying. BUT now WHATS WRONG WITH IT? The only thing I can think of, is the speed controller, and receiver just didnt want to get along. BUT, WHY did it only happen in the air, at the exact same time every time? It never did it on the ground. Im going to the LHS tomorrow, and pick up a matching speed controller, and receiver. What amp speed controller should I pickup? I must say though, for the few seconds it was flying, it felt stable.

How do I get motors, props, and such from Giant Sun toys? They only have the FUSE, Wings, and Batteries........?

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/14/2005 9:44 AM   
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Hey skid..sorry to hear about that. I know the feeling of a broken plane. I think we all do.

Anyway, from the looks of it, it sounds like the receiver. If i'm not mistaken, you said you changed the receiver from the one in the cessna..and it kept failing at the same spot (30 ft or so) from you when you launched it. Did you do a range check on the ground past the same spot?

Yeah it's pretty hard to ROG with the stock wheels of the cub (for me). All it does is donuts hehe

I'm not sure but the cessna receiver and the cub ESC might not be compatible. I recommend you can try switching back the cub's stock receiver and see if that works ok past the spot (on air and ground). If that does, then it's most probably the compatability of the two. Let us know mate.

Regards,
Shaun

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RE: Shun Da Piper Cub J3 - 9/14/2005 10:47 AM   
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Hey Fellas,

Little under the weather today , winds here have stirred up pollen or something. Worst allergies I've ever had. Kinda fuzzy headed by meds, so bear with me.

Skid, there could be a lot of reasons that the motor was cutting out. It could be the different radio/esc combo, battery not cycled enough, interference, etc. My first instinct would be to do a radio check w/ motor running from same spot, same distance where you were yesterday. There is a built-in failsafe in most esc's that cut motor off when radio signal is lost or corrupted. EMI and RFI contribute greatly to radio glitches; are there any high-tension electrical towers near where you fly? What about transmission towers?

Next step would be to re-install stock receiver and use stock Tx, I know it's a pain but it will give you more clues as to glitching problems. Perform range check and see if performance improves.

Last, make sure to fully charge battery (approx 2.5-3 hrs. w/ stock charger) and place freshly charged batt in plane. Try range testing again with someone at least 100 feet away from you holding on to Cub and see if the motor cuts out again. I was having the same issues with a KAN battery pack until I cycled it thoroughly but was lucky enough to have tested pack at home before going out to flying field. I actually have the original HFR batt pack and have been using it with the KAN alternately, getting anywhere between 5-8 minutes per flight.

Re: Giantsuntoys: Email James and he will set you up w/ pricing for motors, props, batteries, etc for your Cub. I am ordering 2 more NiMh packs and 4 replacement props from him myself.

Hope this helps,
Joel

P.S. Just remembered something...throttle endpoints from Cessna Tx/Rx may be specifically set up for 480 motor and prop combo. If you go over set endpoint on 380 motor, it may be undervolt or overvolt issues that cause premature cut-off. I'll see if any of the Badius Boys have any insight to offer; the Accipiter Badius is also a Shun Da product and those guys have modded their birds with diff radio gear, diff motors, LiPo, etc.

< Message edited by htjoel -- 9/14/2005 11:30 AM >


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