Moving the CG aft  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> Moving the CG aft
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Moving the CG aft - 9/2/2005 10:07:15 PM   
winglift


 

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I have a Global Freestyle which is a 3D/Pattern type plane and have been trying to flight test and trim it. I have determined that the CG needs to be moved back. I am wanting to move it back 3/8" from its present position. The model weighes 5 lbs 13 oz which works out to be 2636.5 grams. Initially, I set the CG exactly (3 3/4" back from the leading root edge) as required and as it turns out there is simply no room to move my battery pack to experiment with the CG. Okay says I to save as much weight as possible, I will just add a small amount of weight in the tail to move it back 3/8", but what that weight will be and how far back has proved more difficult to determine than first thought. I measured from the CG mark which was transferred to the fuselage wing saddle to the tip of the nose cone (15 5/8" and to the rear at the rudder hinge line (31 3/4" and created a simple xy expression I solved for both, which turned out to be 1766.94 grams @ 15 5/8" and 869.56 grams @ 31 3/4". That was pretty straight forward, but now I am simply stumped. The new moments would be 16" and 31 3/8". Say I wanted to place a small weight at the tail to move the CG back 3/8", how much weight would I need? Or if I just used a 1 oz weight how far back would I place it to move the CG back 3/8"? For some reason I just cannot figure this one out without some high powered help. Any suggestions?
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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/2/2005 10:47:34 PM   
HighPlains


 

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It should require 31.5 grams (1.1 oz.) at the tailpost if my fuzzy math is working today.

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/2/2005 10:57:40 PM   
Bax


 

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You may be trying to "oversolve" your difficulty. The way it's usually done is you mark where you want the model to balance and then just start adding weight at the farthest point forward or aft where you can attach it. Sometimes a small paper cup is used to hold steel or lead shot. That will get you a very accurate result. Trying to calculate where you put a particular weight, or how much weight at a particular location seems a bit much, unless you just like to do the exercise.

Unless you know the exact moments of all the various components of your model, it will be very difficult to calculate how much weight where you'll have to add/remove to move the balance point.

Full-size aircraft use calculations all the time, but they're trying to get an empty weight and balance so that the balance point is in a particular location. The aircraft is weighed at all three wheels when it's in a particular position, usually dead level fore-and-aft and side-to-side, in reference to the manufacturer's datum line. There is a particular point on the airframe or forward of the airframe for all measurements. By knowing how much each wheel weighs when the aircraft is in its leveled condition, the exact location of the balance point can be determined. You can also then use the formulas to determine what it will take to move the balance point to the desired location.

While this is for full-size aircraft, it may help you determine the solution the way you seem to want:

http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ht-90-6.html

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/2/2005 11:02:39 PM   
BillS


 

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I find hanging the airplane in a cradle nose to tail using a pendulum to point to the CG to be the easy method. If the airplane is 2” or so off the floor it is not likely to be dropped while weight is placed on the airframe. Weight can be placed and the pendulum checked against the calculations.

Bill

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 12:00:07 AM   
winglift


 

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Thanks all for the responses. I will try the 1.1 oz at the tail and see how that goes first and will adjust accordingly. I want to use the minimum weight to make this change, which is why I chose the analytical method first. HIGHPLAINS, just in case, in the future I am wondering how you derived the 1.1oz? I will let you know what happens. NOTE: I may be deployed to help with the disaster in the Gulf coast from hurricane Katrina, so I am not sure it I will get to it before I leave.

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 12:10:08 AM   
HighPlains


 

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You want a change of 3/8" on an 93 oz. plane. That gives you a change of 34.88 in-oz. Divide that by 31 3/4" and you end up with 1.1 oz. Pretty simple after you do it a few times.

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 12:18:55 AM   
winglift


 

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But shouldn't you use the new moment of 31 3/8"?

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 12:21:31 AM   
dick Hanson



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Once you are bored with the calculations----------------
fly it
Thay tells you far more than all the other busy work.
Basically-when it is all said n done - about 33% of MAC is as fur back as you want it.

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 12:44:49 AM   
HighPlains


 

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OK, change the weight by 0.013 oz. Be sure to wipe the airplane off between flight to remove the oil on the tail........

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 1:37:01 AM   
Ed Smith


 

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Unless the fuel tank is on the balance point all of the complicated calculations are a waste of time. The fuel in an eight fluid ounce tank weighs about eight ounces. From the start of the flight to the end approximately half a pound will have been removed from the airplane. If the tank is right behind the firewall removing half a pound from the nose of the airplane will surely change the trim during the flight.

Ed S

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 3:23:55 AM   
dick Hanson



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Darn it Ed - it's facts like that that screw up all the guesswork--

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/3/2005 3:20:47 PM   
Ed Smith


 

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quote:

Darn it Ed - it's facts like that that screw up all the guesswork--


Sorry Dick, but thems the facts.

Ed s

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/4/2005 5:41:21 PM   
winglift


 

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I have not flown it yet, but it took 14.5 grams in the tail to move the CG back 3/8". Not sure why the calculations were off. Thanks everyone for your help. Hopefully, it will help to get the Freestyle trimmed.

quote:

Be sure to wipe the airplane off between flight to remove the oil on the tail........


Should I use a lint free cloth or is paper towels okay?

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/4/2005 8:04:15 PM   
dick Hanson



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Buy a SWIFFER!

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/5/2005 5:37:44 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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I think your calculations are off because you are only working against half the weight, ie that in front of the CG.

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/6/2005 5:18:05 AM   
LarryC


 

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Geez, guys, i've been doing it wrong all along. I just add a little weight 'til it flies like I want it to.
Oh well, where's that abacus, I'll have to start over!

Larry

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RE: Moving the CG aft - 9/8/2005 3:37:47 AM