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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:18 PM   
PaulG-RC



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From: ile-Bizard, Montreal, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I have cut one at one time with my dremel and it did work ok but this time I wanted to find one first in my stock and I did.

Paul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stevenhilton

Can you not cut the prop screw. I have the same issue.



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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:20 PM   
Stevenhilton


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulG-RC

I have cut one at one time with my dremel and it did work ok but this time I wanted to find one first in my stock and I did.

Paul

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stevenhilton

Can you not cut the prop screw. I have the same issue.




What length did you end up getting? What engine are you using again?


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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:25 PM   
PaulG-RC



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From: ile-Bizard, Montreal, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I have the OS 91FS-P , I needed the screw to be 1/4 in shorter.
Some engines have a hollow area in the shaft tip and the screw would go in but this one is full.

Paul

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:28 PM   
Stevenhilton


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulG-RC

I have the OS 91FS-P , I needed the screw to be 1/4 in shorter.
Some engines have a hollow area in the shaft tip and the screw would go in but this one is full.

Paul


I think if I put a nut on the bolt and then cut it, back off the nut it should leave me a shorter bolt with a thread. I will try that first. I am using the OS91FS non pumped version so the tank is going in the top. The Neptune I have uses the same configuration with the tank in the pod and I have had no issues with it there.


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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:32 PM   
PaulG-RC



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Status: offline 		I will install the tank in the pod at first as that is the design but I will also try it at the CG .
In our review column we have a Up Up area so I can write on the modification in there that helps for the review.

Paul

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:47 PM   
Stevenhilton


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulG-RC

I will install the tank in the pod at first as that is the design but I will also try it at the CG .
In our review column we have a Up Up area so I can write on the modification in there that helps for the review.

Paul


Are you actually a product reviewer? How the heck did you manage to pull that off? I suspect we should have one in Canada as well to evaluate the different climate effects on the model.


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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 2:53 PM   
PaulG-RC



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From: ile-Bizard, Montreal, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Im one of the reviewers for the new Canadian Mag FRCC/DRCC, I was also doing reviews in the MAAC mag before that one.
Its not always great you have a time factor to respect and when weather is part of the game thats bad news.

Paul

Paul

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 3:58 PM   
PaulG-RC



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From: ile-Bizard, Montreal, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		For the spinner screw lenght they do mention in the book that it may have to be cut depending on the prop use, but judging by the amount that needs to be cut the prop would have to be very thick.
I also just added some silicone adhesive on the inner sides of the canopy just as a precaution preventing more crack and to solidify the one that were there already.
This should also help for the vibration between the canopy and fuselage.
I also added some CA on the plywood bracing of the canopy to waterproof the wood.

I also apply some CA in the colw after all the cutting and drilling is done and then I will paint the inside, the fiberglass need to be sealed from water just like a boat.

Paul

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 4:17 PM   
seanychen



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Status: offline 		I opened mine up. Fortunately, the only cracks I found are on the engine pod, where the hatch would be screwed to the top of the pod. It looks like the way the fuselage lays flat in the box, somebody gave the box side a good kick, and got the engine pot.

I don't think this is bad. I already epoxied it back. Maybe I will just put some decals to cover up the cracks.

Oh, and I did try to mount a 14" prop, and surely enough, it will not fit. I think 13" is the largest comfortable size prop for this. I may get away with a 13.4" diameter prop...

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 4:23 PM   
seanychen



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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulG-RC

I would also worry about being overpowered on the Seawind.
I found another crack at the base of the vertical fin at the trailling edge of it, I simply pressed on it and injected some CA now it ok.
The problem is that crack was not visible until I pressed on the fuselage.
Im starting to worry now about the strenght of the fiberglass fuse especially if there is flexing of the pod from engine thrust it might just crack even more at the base of the fin.
Plus there is no former past the last big one and with a fin that large its shure to flex somehow, especially if one decides to do some aerobatics.

Paul


As far as overpowering, I think 4-stroke is going to pose more of a concern due to the torque and impulse. I think a higher-revving 2-stroke will be easier on the airframe than an equivalent-power 4-stroke at lower rpm. Has anybody considered an Evolution 100 for this plane?

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 4:25 PM   
PaulG-RC



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Status: offline 		I agree for the 2 stroke engine.

Paul

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 5:41 PM   
gouda


 

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Status: offline 		Would it be possible to inject foam in the fin area to help aborsb some vibration and maybe strengthen it a bit? I have seen written where some are doing this in the front gear area. It seems like a good idea, but not sure if there are other issues. Just note that there is a difference between the gel coat cracking and the actual structural FG cracking. I have seen a lot of gel coat cracking in models, but not much structral cracking without external causees (like hitting the ground, trees, fence posts etc.)

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 5:48 PM   
PaulG-RC



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Status: offline 		Gel coat cracking is worst since water will seep between the gel coat and fiberglass ,if its a crack that goes thru the fiberglass well water will go in the fuselage, better but not much better.
As for injecting foam in the wing tips or the vertical fin, I dont see a problem as long as the foam has a way of expanding on the outside preventing the body from expanding to the point of deforming it.

Paul

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 5:58 PM   
PaulG-RC



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From: ile-Bizard, Montreal, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Here is some info I found on this site on Osmosis.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/decoder_osmosis.jsp



WHAT IS OSMOSIS?
Osmosis is a process of degeneration within a fiberglass laminate. It is caused by a chemical reaction between water and unreacted substances remaining in the manufactured hull. The water enters the hull through the gelcoat and, once inside, reacts with the chemical components creating acidic substances. These substances create pressure behind the gelcoat, which causes blisters and eventually cracking. Once the gelcoat is breached in this manner, the underlying laminate is capable of absorbing water like a sponge.

Osmosis is not only caused by water on the outside of the hull – bilge water from the inside can also cause a problem. It is therefore worth making efforts to keep your bilges dry.

Paul


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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 6:23 PM   
gouda


 

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Status: offline 		I never thought of it from that aspect. I guess I wasn't thinking of waterplanes. That info you found was targeting boat hulls, but I guess it sure could have the same results.
I fgured the foam would have to have a place to expand, otherwise it could cause a lot of damage.

Thanks

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 6:33 PM   
Stevenhilton


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaulG-RC

Here is some info I found on this site on Osmosis.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/decoder_osmosis.jsp



WHAT IS OSMOSIS?
Osmosis is a process of degeneration within a fiberglass laminate. It is caused by a chemical reaction between water and unreacted substances remaining in the manufactured hull. The water enters the hull through the gelcoat and, once inside, reacts with the chemical components creating acidic substances. These substances create pressure behind the gelcoat, which causes blisters and eventually cracking. Once the gelcoat is breached in this manner, the underlying laminate is capable of absorbing water like a sponge.

Osmosis is not only caused by water on the outside of the hull – bilge water from the inside can also cause a problem. It is therefore worth making efforts to keep your bilges dry.


That is why all outboard motors have a sacrificial cathode, usually the skeg on the outdrive unit.

Paul




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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/6/2005 8:30 PM   
seanychen



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Status: offline 		Just took a look at Tower's Scratch & Dent. Looks like a lot of damaged Seawind that they are trying to off load.

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/7/2005 11:39 PM   
Fast Freddy


 

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Status: offline 		This is directed to those that have received damaged Seawinds. Have any of you attempted and / or contacted Don Anderson, President and Founder of Great Planes? I as well as others are curious and interested to hear what kind of response you received.

At this point it is obvious that Great Planes is having production / quality control problems and final inspection problems at the factory in China. One would think that loose bulkheads would be relatively easy to catch before the kit left the factory with a thorough, final inspection, right? As for all those cracked canopies, it sounds like the packaging is insufficient. Needs more bubble wrap, right?

I have held off purchasing a Seawind because I'm not convinced I'll receive one that is in perfect condition. Just look at all the frustration, negative emotions, wasted time and energy, etc. on this thread. Why should I be willing to accept anything less? What kind of way is that to go and purchase something? Don't get me wrong, I want one of these planes in a real bad way. But I also want confidence going into my purchase. I sure hope Great Planes can clear up these problems so that all Seawinds can become truly GREAT PLANES!

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/7/2005 11:59 PM   
gouda


 

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Status: offline 		FF try going to a hobby shop. Maybe they will have one in stock and you can inspect it before plunking your $$ down. FYI, mine only had very minor damage. It wouldn't stop me from flying it. Don't take me wrong, it was a expensive plane and I want a undamaged canopy and they have agreed to replace it. Bubble wrap isn't the issue. They ship the planes with the canopies taped in place. Shock tends to knock them loose and they then bounce around and hit on other things and break. I think the issue is the canopy being made out of a brittle plastic. Other than that mine was packed ok. I'd also speculate that this might be the largest and most complex one piece FG plane (part) on the market. At least other than the expensive jets. I don't recall a FG ARF with so much of the bulkhead work already done and gel coated. I'm not defending GP, just making some comments.

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/8/2005 7:54 AM   
Fast Freddy


 

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Status: offline 		Gouda,

Thanks for your comments. Went to the LHS some time ago, inspected a Sewind and it had loose bulkheads and edge cracks on the canopy. Kit was shipped back to GP. This experience was posted on this thread.

Per your comment on the canopies. If the canopies are becoming loose during shipping and ending up cracked then it would seem like GP needs to find a better way to prevent the canopies from shifting during shipping. Common sense, right? How about wedging form fitting blocks of foam around the canopy? The brittleness of the canopies is certainly not helping matters. On the fuselage. I hesitate to guess about the FG fuselage being one of the largest on the market. I agree, it is a very complex structure. I'm just intertested in seeing GP get this right.

Still interested in hearing from anyone that's gotten communication from GP's Don Anderson.

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/8/2005 1:19 PM   
MMallory


 

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Status: offline 		Freddy,

There are many things to consider when shipping. One of the largest concerns is the size of the boxes. It isn't so simple to figure out how to fit these planes in the smallest possible box without any damage. The larger question is how many from the entire shipment were damaged? If it is only a small percentage, why change anything.

I keep hearing this is an expensive model. That just goes to show how spoiled we are in the modeling community. Just a few years ago it would have costs you close to $300 to build your own sea plane from a kit. And..... you would have to do all of the work. To put this into perspective, the going rate to have someone assemble an ARF is more than the cost of this kit.

The price to pay for cheap labor is you don't get a perfect build. Every ARF should be inspected for loose and/or missing parts. How long does it really take to reglue a bulkhead that is already in it's proper place? GP will replace missing or broken bits. So you have to wait for them. I don't know anyone in this hobby, flying a plane at this level, who only has one plane.

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I'm just stating the realities of buying cheap stuff. I've had broken parts on just about every ARF I've ever purchased. More recently this includes a Lancair, Cessna Skymaster, Hawk, Venus & even a Raptor heli. Most were easily fixed with a dab of glue. The parts which weren't were replaced.

Mark

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/9/2005 1:43 AM   
flying_phil


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Seawind buyers,

I mentioned in a previous message that I received my seawind last Saturday and it was almost perfect. I checked it for every damage that was posted here. I did however, find one former on the canopy that was loose.

Anyway, after reading all the horror stories I decided to call GP today as ask if they had or were going to publish any corrections to the building manual, given all the corrections that have been written here. They said they didn't know of any problem that would require an amendment. I mention the engine spacing from 5 1/8" to 4 15/16" and he said no. He didn't find any problem other than some shipping damage that was no more than they would expect of any model. Nothing about cracked hulls or adding fiberglass to the hull for strength.

I also asked him a question about the CG when the plane was complete. Some of my flying buddies suggest that when balancing the plane the fuel tank should be full to compensate for the distance the tank is from the CG. GP said to do it with the tank empty, which the manual suggests. Does anyone who has flown the plane see any merit to balancing with a full tank??

Thanks,

Phil

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/9/2005 3:09 AM   
gouda


 

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Status: offline 		That makes two of us with little or no damage. And I'm not surprised they are not saying it's excessive shipping damage. We really don't know how many have been sold. That would be very interesting to know, though.

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/9/2005 4:03 AM   
Skyventures



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Status: offline 		Someone suggested to fill the tip floats with foam and attach them to the wing with silicone. Is there a specific brand or type of injection foam and silicone that works best?

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RE: Great Planes Seawind - 12/9/2005 7:42 AM   
Fast Freddy


 

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Status: offline 		MMallory,
Points well taken and no offence taken either. I'm just interested in seeing some other points of view which you have illustrated nicely. Upon reflection I agree with you on the issues of cheap labor. There is simply no way one could build this kit out of FG for the current price of $350. But as far as the canopies are concerned, it would seem if they were packaged inside a form fitted block of foam, we might be seeing less cracks during shipping. On the issues of broken, loose and / or missing parts I believe as well as you that a thorough, final inspection would avoid many of the problems and frustrations we are witnessing on this thread. Perhaps what we are discribing is a perfect world and that will simply not come to pass. So, here we are and after having this discussion I think I'm ready to purchase a Seawind. Thanks for your input!

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