ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> 3D Flying! >> ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ
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ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/26/2002 7:19:25 PM   
mola



Posts: 166
Joined: 7/26/2002
From: Henne, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I have just bought a Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ ( [url]www.topmodelcz.com[/url] ) and am wondering which engine to put in it.

The weight should be between 15 and 16 pounds RTF, so I was thinking that the recommended ZDZ 40 would be a little on the small side for 3D aerobatics such as hovering. Therefore the natural choice would seem to be the ZDZ 50 instead?

I have been thinking about the Moki 2.10 also, but it seems that it's not much lighter that the ZDZ's and would be using a lot of fuel.

The next problem is the muffler, I live in a noise sensitive area and would like to use an in-cowl muffler that will not disturb the neighbours. I have been thinking about the Amelung Diablotin XL muffler. Is this any good at muffling? And would it work with the ZDZ 50 or would it be too restrictive??

Finally, what about soft mounting gas engines of this size. In my pattern and smaller 3D-planes I always soft mount the engine, both to reduce noise, but also to lower the wear on the servos and radio. It seems to me that not many do this on the gassers, why? I guess there must be a lot of vibration on 40-50cc gas engines, right??

I'm new to this gas stuff, so sorry for the many questions...


_____________________________

Best regards,
Morten Laugesen
       Post #: 1

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/27/2002 12:01:05 AM   
3D_CAP232



Posts: 306
Joined: 6/6/2002
From: Leicester,
Status: offline 		Hi,
I'm sure everyones got their own idea however I've got a Cap 232 which is very 3D capable at 30% scale with a Zenoah 62...it weighs in at 17.5 lbs and its capable of everything but could do with a little more to pull out of the hover with authority...it will pull out now but only just! Oh btw the prop is a mejlik 22x10 turning at 7,500.
Economy isnt a problem as i only use 1/4 throttle for most things...it'll do a large(ish) loop on half power!!...which reduces its percieved noise by loads!!
Have fun


_____________________________

Life is Simple...
Eat, Sleep, Fly 3D

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 2

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/27/2002 1:54:35 AM   
daren


 

Posts: 232
Joined: 2/9/2002
From: sioux falls, SD, USA
Status: offline 		whats the wingspan and wing area on that plane. go with the zdz 50. I have the lanier cap 232 that i built thats looks identical to yours with a zdz60. awsome motor but my plane weighs 19lbs. way to heavy but flies good.

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 3

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/27/2002 6:40:06 AM   
mola



Posts: 166
Joined: 7/26/2002
From: Henne, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Data on the Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ:

Wingspan: 2070mm (81.5in)
Length: 1930mm (76in)
Wing area: 78sq dm (1209sq in)

In other words, the dimensions are similar to the 80in Cap 232 from Hanger 9.

The plans can be downloaded from their web site:

http://www.topmodelcz.com/PDF/CAP232.pdf


I think the ZDZ 50 is the right choice of engine, since it's light and powerful.

What about an in-cowl muffler though? The Bisson pitts style mufflers are to loud for my use. Did anybody try the Diablotin XL muffler from Amelung in Germany??


_____________________________

Best regards,
Morten Laugesen

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 4

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/27/2002 6:51:41 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10193
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: online 		diaboltin muffler not very quiet - use a Amelung paket w/ can (KS can) from Amelung

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 5

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/27/2002 8:19:52 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10193
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: online 		Morten -I have been asked similar questions -so I will post my own findings on mounts and mufflers -for gas engines.
The mount using the small hydraulic shock absorber -tho new to many modelers - is really not new - I worked with a similar problem on industrial machine -in the 1970's.
The problem was - the high cyclic rate of the shock absorber - making it a dicey setup for reliability and effective use.
In 1980's I designed a rotary mount -which did the same job but again took fiddling -I used an adjustable compliance rubber sleeve (I expanded it into a retainer using a bolt thru it .
This worked and I published it for anyone to copy -cheap and easy to do .
The mount pivoted on a stud - aligned with the engine shaft - so any motion allowable was rotary.
The mufflers for in cowl use - can be home made and work very well - the designs using a simple stel paint can -and an inlet a baffle section and an outlet are very good.
I recently did one using a pint can -brazed the interion pieces to the lid - then --held lid in place with simple paint can lid snap clips - It worked just fine.
For real silencing you need volume-- two 1/2 pt cans -joined would be fine for the 40. two pt cans - even better.
For the ZDZ50 - use a 1" dia inlet header to can .-use a piece of the 1" flexible steel in the header .
The soft mount - my opinion for the ZDZ is to foget it - soft mounts are helpful but a real pain in the arse.
and heavy and a lot of busy work.
go with a 20x11 3blade prop and the quiet cans- you should be very quiet.
The intake noise is pretty well quieted in the ZDZ internal rear inlet.
(another reason I prefer ZDZ)

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 6

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/28/2002 10:45:49 PM   
mola



Posts: 166
Joined: 7/26/2002
From: Henne, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Dick,

Thanks a lot for your honest answers. Will probably go with the KS 86S-4 and the kit manifold. Mount the engine inverted and hide the muffler under the fuselage.

Speaking of props. On the Amelung site they list 21x12 3blade @6350rpm and 22x12 2blade @6350rpm using the KS 86V-4 front in front out muffler.

Are these the props to go for? If not, which are?

The Menz props are probably the easiest and cheapest to come by here in Europe, so any good advise would be appreciated. Should I use the standard or ultra type, what's the difference?


_____________________________

Best regards,
Morten Laugesen

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 7

ZDZ 50 and Cap 232 3D from Topmodel CZ - 10/29/2002 1:08:51 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10193
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: online 		std blades -in two blade seem to work best --in two blade the 22x8-10 sizes for the 50.

(in reply to mola)
       Post #: 8

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