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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pylon Universe - RC Pylon Racing >> General Racing Discussion >> RE: Formula one speeds
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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/18/2005 8:48:36 PM   
garys


 

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Denis,
Are you offering to pay for it?
GS


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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/19/2005 12:18:10 AM   
djlyon



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Yup, right after I win the big lottery. It's the first thing on my list. I even have a unit picked out.

Denis

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/19/2005 2:30:59 AM   
Bill Vargas



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Gosh Denis, I hope your not gonna use that thing against Gale just to get the upper hand on the old man?


BV

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/19/2005 5:08:59 AM   
djlyon



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I think the only way I'll get the upper hand on Gale is with a pair of bionic thumbs, probably more than 100k.

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/19/2005 10:24:43 PM   
samuelx



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Hello
On WC France this year F3D planes speeds on pylon 3 was 300-322km/h. (just after tight turn).
My plane whit IR front intake motor was 318km/h
Same planes on level flight go´s up to 370 km/h.
On F3D we don´t use nitro. only methanol/oil 80/20.


This measurements are done whit radar gun (only light wind/no wind)
My friends use data logger on F3D planes and have same kind of readings.





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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/19/2005 10:51:12 PM   
daven



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Samuelx, I don't doubt those speeds for an FAI (F3D) plane.

The plane in question is an older Formula 1 plane that was primarily raced in the US.

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/20/2005 5:07:57 AM   
AlW



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Hi All,
I think it time for me to make a few comments.
1. What we are doing here has NOTHING to do with pylon racing. The airplane is a Formula 1 as was defined in the AMA Rule Book a number of years ago. These rules are gone so we are simply having some fun with a fast airplane from a bygone era. There are no pyons involved and this NOT a race! In a pylon race with four airplanes an airplane is pointed at the pits/spectators approximately 40 times each heat at high speeds. In these speed runs the airplane is NEVER pointed at the pits/spectators, but runs parallel to them.
2. Ed, your dissertion on pylon racing, cages, off-course workers etc. etc. just does not apply. I am very familiar with all the iterations you spoke of since I was the structural engineer representing NMPRA in meetings with AMA on the design of those cages. NMPRA and AMA were way off base on the initial test program and I contacted Vern Smith (then NMPRA President) with my concerns and wound up agreeing to represent NMPRA in the design and test program. I attended AMA Executive Council Meetings, AMA Safety Committee Meetings and witnessed some of the rocket-powered sled tests at Tullahoma, TN. where we fired old F-1 airplanes at a number of various cage materials.
3. When I retired from Pylon Racing in 2000 I turned my interest to turbines, so I am familiar with the AMA regulations with these airplanes. Currently, we are not permitted to fly turbines in excess of 200 MPH. Remember that these airplanes are heavy - mostly in the 30-40-lb range. An F-1 at 5 to 6 pounds and approximately at the same speed has less than 20 % of the kenetic energy of a turbine model, so I don't think that the AMA should have any concerns.
4. The airplane in question was build by me a long time ago and is a Paul Stenberg De-night. It has a Nelson F/1 motor and the fuel was 30% nitro, 18% Klotz Kl-200 and 52% Methanol. A 10-ounce tettra tank was used. The prop was carved by me from a Rev-Up series 400 pylon racing prop. This fuel was chosen because we have a limited supply of Nelson F-1 motors and parts and just can't afford to damage motors with a lean high nitro run. The airplane has been flown four or five times - all these flights were made with a very long straigh away and gentle left-hand turns. Having raced Formula F-1 I can tell you that this airplane unloaded like none I have heard before. On the first flight the needle was set about like one would for aF-1 heat and after a circuit or two it went lean. Subsequent flights were launched with a much richer setting to allow for the unloading. The speed runs were flown with the airplane entering the straight section from a gentle dive and levelling out through the traps. The speed trap is one of the JPO systems and the speed is shown on a digital display in MPH. There are no stop watches in this system. I don't know how the system works, but I will tell you that we flew a turbine powered model through the same traps and compared the trap speed to the on board speed sensor, which is hooked into the ECU and got a very good correlation - within 2% at around 200MPH. In conclusion, I am sure that there are some skeptics out there, but based on what I have seen I am convinced that these airplanes can exceed 200MPH.

Al Watson

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/24/2005 6:00:39 PM   
LGM Graphix



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Well, I gotta say, I saw this plane at princeton, and while it's fast, I don't believe for a second it was over 200. Sorry, didn't look like it. Not like the Bandit or the hotspot did. Made lots of noise and was very fast, but 200? I don't think so. One run over your trap that said 207 doesn't convince me, give me 3 runs with close to those numbers and maybe. But I'm having a real hard time with the 200. Not tryin to bust chops or anything, just saying what I witnessed, I didn't see friday's flight so maybe it was faster, but on saturday I didn't see anything I thought looked like 200 or better.

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/24/2005 6:08:35 PM   
JohnVH



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Looks = nothing



FWIW, Justins SB onboard speed sensor told us the traps where within a few mph of his jetcat bandit.. proof enough.

< Message edited by JohnVH -- 9/24/2005 6:11:06 PM >


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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/25/2005 5:44:10 PM   
sandslx



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Jeremy

Your calibrated eye ball is better than a speed trap.
Got it.


Justin Sands

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/25/2005 6:06:48 PM   
Ad Clark III



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That reminds me of the time I was pulled over for speeding. The officer said he had me radared at 82 mph and was going to issue me a ticket. I responded " I know know my car is loud and very fast but I dont believe for one second that I was going faster than 82 mph and only one run through the traps doesnt convince me". Sorry. I then told the officer if he could get me on three different runs with speeds close to those then maybe I would believe it. I told him that I wasnt trying to bust his chops, I just think my eyeball is a better judge of speed than your radar gun. I spent six months in the pokey for that one....oh well, live and learn

< Message edited by Ad Clark III -- 9/25/2005 7:46:43 PM >


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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/26/2005 4:19:37 PM   
DHG


 

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Don't forget, the F1s have sort of a bulbous look to them -- like flying footballs. They don't have that sleek, pointy appearance that jets and sailplanes do, so perhaps they don't give the same impression of speed in the air. They're sort of like rhinos and grizzly bears: they look slow until you try to outrun one.

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/26/2005 4:34:16 PM   
JohnVH



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DHG
They're sort of like rhinos and grizzly bears: they look slow until you try to outrun one.


Now thats funny!!


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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/26/2005 6:43:15 PM   
jeffk464


 

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I would much rather be killed by a 6lb plane doing 200 miles than by 40lbs plane doing the same.

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/26/2005 7:00:11 PM   
daven



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Wouldn't matter, kinda like our helmets.

Then again, you may be able to get an open casket.

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RE: Formula one speeds - 9/26/2005 8:04:03 PM   
js3



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Dave,

I think he was being ironic. At least that's the way I read it.

BTW, the fuse got here on Friday. Very nice! And thanks very much!

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