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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/3/2005 3:40 AM   
V2PLUS10


 

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Status: offline 		Hang on because here come some more gear pictures!! The gear has been a bit "fiddly" but has finally come together, nearly. I decided to attach the gear legs to the fuselage and then assemble the legs together thus assuring a good fit after the JB weld sets. Parts of the gear are bolted together and parts are JB welded much the same as the cabane struts were. The first pic shows multiple clamps and all parts temporarily assembled. The next is another view of the same, and finally the thoroughly glued and clamped assembly waiting for tomorrow when the JB sets. I was tempted to use JB Weld Quick but i'm glad I did not....there just is not enough time to mix and apply before it sets....An airplane just looks better with it's legs on!!

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< Message edited by V2PLUS10 -- 11/3/2005 4:53 AM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 12:43 AM   
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Status: offline 		The JB weld has set nicely so today was "spreader bar" day. The bar provided is of some very nice hardwood, but I have no idea what kind. After a little sanding and some more of that drilling the spreader made a nice fit. Now I have wheels.....but as I write this the gear has been disassembled so some detail work can be done......

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< Message edited by V2PLUS10 -- 11/4/2005 12:45 AM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 1:52 AM   
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Status: offline 		Looking real good there.!!.. thats one of theconcerns with my own plane, the spreader bar. I made mine to look and act scale but I fear it won't be stout enough. I guess I'll find out

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 5:21 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Bob,

I'm concerned about strength also. This spreader has two 1 1/4" wood screws in each end. Plus the Hanriot will be rigged with cross braced wires and horizontal wires on the front and rear of the spreader bar, as most WWI types are. It is a stout piece of wood but I may thin it a bit more yet. In my experience the strength of the gear is in good taut rigging wires....I think the spreader bar is just that. It is just another interplane strut that fits into sockets on the gear and is held in place with the rigging, just as the interplane struts are (supposed to be!) held by the cross rigging. It spreads the gear legs apart just as the interplane struts spread the wings apart. In this case it's not smoke and mirrors that make it work but wires, wires and more wires....

Took the gear off the fuse and made a fixture to hold it while I do some detailing. I marked the holes from the fuselage onto a piece of paper and then transferred their locations to the pine board. This way the gear can be set up just as it would be on the fuselage but I don't have to risk damaging the fuselage structure. The second picture shows the gear angle brace as it comes out of the box. The second shows what adding a little dimension can do. Much more sanding and filing to go, but it's coming together!!





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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 9:06 AM   
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Status: offline 		Howdy Randy,
Man, she is look'n really good.
I gotta get this BUSA Dr.1 finished so's I can get started on mine.
I forget which paint scheme you said you were going to do??
I'm doing the one with the four "Aces" on the side. My wife likes it also.
Keep up the good work, looks like you're having lots of fun.

Del

BTW, I mailed the DPR cd yesterday, you should get it the first of the week....Enjoy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 1:44 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, I hope your right about the sreader bar

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 10:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		Del,

The one with the "Aces" is really neat. I thought about it but i think that paint job is just a little bit too ambitious for me. I wanted to try to keep this simple when I started out, so I'm going to try to replicate the one hanging in the Swiss museum. A silver airplane would sure show better though....

A little more work on the gear today. The gear legs are supposed to attach to the spreader bar via metal brackets and sockets for the struts to slide into and then get clamped into place. I tried to simulate this with a little JB Kwik and a lot of sanding and shaping. I could have just painted them on but I really like the raised edge that gives the bracket a little depth....can't tell from 15' away but so what? Now i need to make something similar for the end of the struts that attach to the fuselage. I may use brass for those parts

The first pic shows the struts taped and scuffed and ready for the JB weld. the rest are various views of the result. There are some spruce parts in there also to help fill the gaps...

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/4/2005 11:24 PM   
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Status: offline 		Way to take it to the next level. That is the type detail that you see on the second or third glance. Thumbs UP!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/5/2005 1:34 AM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for the encouragement! My fingers are sore now though, I might have to take a little break...We fly rubber powered indoor scale in the winters around here and Sunday is the first get together. I'll have to dust the cob webs off my indoor models tomorrow!!

I forged ahead and made the little brackets that hopefully will look like the gear strut sockets when all is said and done. I'll either paint them black or use Brass-black on them. The Brass Black gives them a more authentic look so that is what I'll probably do. Brass Black can be bought where they do gun smithing, as it is similar to the stuff they use for bluing but it works on brass....

The first pic shows one of the four brackets. Made from .010 brass it will be held in place with 0-80 brass hex head bolts. the squares on the cutting board are 1" for reference. next the gear is back on the fuselage and i think I'm done with it for now...I need to deal with the aileron hinges and that may be next...

Stuck in a picture of my Stagger Wing sport.....35 grams as you see it, three function r/c.....16" span..I have a rubber powered version also that inspired this electric one...The plans came from Aeromodeler magazine years ago...

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< Message edited by V2PLUS10 -- 11/5/2005 1:38 AM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/5/2005 2:21 AM   
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Status: offline 		Looks good Randy..!.. that lil rubber job looks good too.. how nice to be able to fly indoors ya know.. you guys are lucky.

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/8/2005 9:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		I was pleased to learn that there is a new five minute epoxy available that is perfectly suited to those of us over 50 who maybe don't move quite as fast as we think we do. They call it twelve minute epoxy of course and at least for me it reduces the stress of racing the glue's cure time to assemble parts!

Anyway, I've hinged one aileron. This was one of those times where I had to choose between making a kinda functional hopefully reliable scale item or a fully functional and reliable non-scale item. In the interest of long term use and reliability I decided to use good old Klett Plastic hinges on the ailerons. When all is said and done the real hinges will be nearly invisible.......

I set up the aileron with proper spacing and alignment. I had already cut little channels to recieve the hinge. The channels are about twice as deep as the hinge so that after gluing with 12 minute epoxy (!) I could install toothpick pins through the hinge and then cap the whole thing with some balsa. The finished hinge is flush with the top of the spar and is forever secure...I hope!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 5:12 AM   
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Status: offline 		I was at sort of a loss as to what should come next. I'm going to have to decide whether to mount the aileron servos in the top wing or the bottom, and that will come soon. Since the sport digital servos I ordered arrived the other day I went ahead and found a mounting place for them. the plans show recommended locations for the rudder and elevator servos and I followed their advice. One end of each servo is mounted to a beam that is glued to the firewall, the other is fastened to a little angle bracket that I devised. The fuel tank was fitted at this time also. It mounts on a couple of beams, and the servo brackets help hold it centered. The short fat four-stroke fuel tank from Hobby Lobby fits perfectly. Next I'll find a place for the throttle servo....

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 6:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		Wow! It's like you're build ing with just my needs in mind! At this very moment I'm working on those little brackets for the undercarriage and cabane struts. I had been thinking of just trying to cut them out of stainless steel tape (which doesn't cut easily by the way) but I like your bracket idea -- though I don't think I can find brass in that thickness here in Japan.

BTW, did you just file those out by hand or use one of the dremel tools (if so which one)?

Also I'll be mounting my ailerons in precisely the way you have them here: plastic hinges embedded flush with the top surface of the wing.

< Message edited by abufletcher -- 11/10/2005 6:25 AM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 4:20 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, I would mount the aileron servos in the bottom wing for this reason. The servo extensions can run throught the wing and into the fuse out of sight. I think it would make for an easier set up.

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 4:53 PM   
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Status: offline 		I think tin or aluminum would work fine also, as they will be painted anyway...I just cut the brass strip with shears-make it extra long so you'll have something to hold on to while routing out the holes-, and used an old set of duck-bill pliers that have nearly smooth jaws as my bending brake. At first I used a Dremel cutoff wheel to start the holes and finished with a razor saw and file. That was too hard! So I drilled multiple small holes around the perimeter of the cutout and then cut between the hole with a small pair of wire cutters, finishing with a file. Finally on the last few holes, after I realized that I needed a cutout in both (!!) sides of the bracket, I just drilled a larger hole in the center of the cutout and used a Dremel tungsten carbide cutter bit that was about 1/8" in diameter and cranked up the RPM and ground it out. Noisy, but quick and effective. Wear leather gloves!!

Randy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 4:58 PM   
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Status: offline 		Bob,

Yes, I really hope to make it work that way. I bought two little JR flat wing servos for that purpose, so they'd fit in the bottom wing. The trouble is that it is a straight "push" for the servo to give up aileron movement with little mechanical leverage. I don't know if 46 oz in of torque will be enough.....I will get the wings set up soon now that I have the ailerons hinged and look it over. There may need to be a little scale compromise here to make it work....

Randy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 8:36 PM   
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Status: offline 		Bob here are some pictures. I put the whole thing together and I think it looks pretty good!

The detail pics of the aileron set-up show the fuzzy location of the servo, then the hinge-control horn area. Next I think is the side view showing the hoped for set up. Then there is a complication. To get anything near adequate throw the servo horn extends above the wing rib! The same is true on the bottom......this may be the undoing of this installation...then is the front view....

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 8:44 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, that sure is a handsome plane. I can't believe how fast it framed up... excellent work there!!!..
How do the full scale plane's ailerons work? If possible I would consult them for clues on how to solve the problem.. just an idea?

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 8:54 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy. I did some web searching and it appears as though the plane has ailerons on the top wings only? If thats true then you need to move the servo to the top wing. I dont see any other way around it? What does Glenn recommend?

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 9:04 PM   
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Well, the full scale has a cable from the control stick to a pulley in each lower wing, at the same location as my servo. From that pulley the cable goes up through the top surface of the wing just as my push-rod does to the upper wing and aileron. Then from the upper aileron horn, another cable goes forward into the wing, turns 90 degrees through a pulley and follows the leading edge inside the wing to a similar pulley in front of the opposite aileron. There it exits the wing and hooks to the upper aileron horn. A closed loop arrangement, so you are basically pulling one aileron down and the other one up through the upper wing interconnect. I think many WWI types used this setup. The DH-2 used a bungee cord on the upper aileron horn to pull the aileron "up". Imagine how that worked when the bungee got old or broke!!

To keep the servo horn within the wing surface, I'd have to be happy with about 5/8" of aileron throw.....doesn't seem like enough to me......

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 9:12 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yes Bob,

Ailerons are only in the top wing. Glenn recommends putting the servo in the top wing. But that leaves no hidden way to run the servo wire to the rx in the fuse. Glenn hides the wire for static and just runs it down the cabanes for flight......could put another rx in the upper wing, along with a battery and switch, but how long before I tried to takeoff with the aileron rx switch off? If it can happen, it will!!!

Randy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 10:12 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, Duncan Hutson also had a Hanriot kit and he did the same thing that Glen did. He put the servos in the top wing. Since you aren't going to have a closed loop system per the full scale I would humbly suggest you do it the way those guys did. If you wanted to simulate the full scale it would be an easy matter to have a thin rod protruding down from the top wing into the lower wing and leave it unattached at the bottom allowing it to move up and down. Hows that sound?

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 10:45 PM   
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It's starting to look like I will have to do it that way. I could move the aileron horn closer to the hinge line and get more throw for the same servo movement, but that makes the mechanical advantage even worse... Well, my Strutter needs better aileron servos and those flat wing types will work really well in it.....time to start pricing some new servos for the wing. Glenn used JR DS3421's I think......although I could set it up so the ailerons essentially only moved "up" and that would take care of the adverse aileron yaw...how do you think that would work? With the computer radio generated aileron differential that is essentially what what the result would be anyway....

Randy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/10/2005 11:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		Just for comparison......Proctor Nieuport 11 verses GTM Hanriot HD-1. 1/5th scale vs. 1/4 scale....

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 11/11/2005 2:07 AM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, I plan on using differential for my SE5a. From what I hear those WWI types really like that. I have a 9ZWCII so programming that in is no problem. I think in your case its a good idea too.

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