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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/2/2005 3:56 PM   
V2PLUS10


 

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From: Boise, ID,
Status: offline 		Thanks Del,

Initially I thought it would be neat to run the wires through one of the cabanes but since they were pre-bent and the ends were closed I just gave up on that route, and the outer cabanes were similar to the DVIII it seems. It just goes to show you that if you fiddle with something long enough the solution will pop up. Seems so simple now, wish I'd have thought of it earlier!!!

I can't believe how easily formed that litho plate is after it's been annealed. I guess not all al alloys will anneal so easily. I read about it on the internet, and I'm not getting it quite hot enough in the oven but it works well enough. They say that after some time passes it will become hardened again.....guess they stamp soft drink cans from little disks of aluminium..can't believe it'll stretch like that..

Randy

< Message edited by V2PLUS10 -- 1/9/2006 5:34 AM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/7/2005 11:34 PM   
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Status: offline 		I've been working on hinging the access doors that are fitted into the side fairings. Because my doors have some overlap a straight piano hinge would not work....the door had to move up and away from the side as it opened. At first I thought I'd just use magnets and I still may go that route....You can see from the first picture that the door moves out and away from the side as it opens. The receiver and onboard glow switches will be in here...

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/8/2005 12:06 AM   
deljon



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Status: offline 		Hinge looks good Randy, how will you attach it to the door??
What temp. did you set the oven and how long did you leave the alum. in??

Del

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/8/2005 12:17 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Del,

Because the aluminum is so soft I think I'll glue a piece of balsa or ply to the door, sanded to match the curve of the door, and then use JB weld to attach the hinge. I used CA during the test fit process and it held really well...was pretty tough to break the hinge free. I've got to make a new door now as I distorted the old one....looks authentic though!!

Our oven goes to 550 so that is what I used. I left it in for maybe 10 minutes and then cooled it pretty quickly. Here is a link where you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about annealing....

http://www.tinmantech.com/html/aluminum_alloys_continued.html


Randy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/11/2005 3:18 AM   
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Status: offline 		I'm starting to think about covering the fuselage, but as we all know I must think about it for at least a week before doing anything! I am cleaning up the structure here and there and still adding strips for the fabric to stick to. Discovered that I needed another access door in the fuselage, behind the cockpit. At first I was just going to stick a piece of fabric here before painting to make it look like a door, but I just wasn't satisified with that approach... Some airplanes show a fuel or oil tank in this location while others put the camera here if the airplane was used for recon work. The rest of the pictures just show the almost complete front end with all the mounting plates etc in place for switches, servos and battery packs. I'll ad a very early picture for comparison...

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/11/2005 5:00 AM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, it all looks real good so far.. Ya know.. on the SE5a the door behind the cockpit was supposed to be used for the wireless but it was never installed in the planes. Maybe that's what that other door is for?..

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/12/2005 2:37 AM   
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Status: offline 		Bob,

A wireless! Can you imagine, flying along, having to almost stand up to change the magazine on the over wing machine gun, nearly freezing through all this, and then tapping a little Morse code message to the chaps back at the field??!!! And then keeping a sharp lookout for someone who is trying to kill you!!! No wonder it was not used as intended, probably lots of brandy stashed back there though!!

Installed the hard points for the front set of flying wires today. Once again searching for that perfect balance between fuctionality and scale appearance. The clevis should be hidden by the side fairing, once installed, and the dual flying wire and swage should be all that is visible. Experience has taught me to attach the flying wires so that the force is passed through the fuselage rather than having it absorbed by the fuselage upright, thus the threaded rod connecting the left and right sides. Forces from a less than normal landing can produce opposing pressures from the left and right sides and if the wires are simply anchored to the fuselage uprights, the force tries to pull the fuselage apart. Careful study of some photos of an uncovered fuselage show this to be the technique on the full scale as well. The aft flying wires pass through the fuselage uprights and then attach to the tube that connects the bottom wing spars together, allowing for a transfer of force. I haven't quite figured out how to do the rear flying wires on the model though, but maybe tomorrow.....!!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/12/2005 2:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, yep lots of Brandy and maybe some toilet paper!
Interesting about the flying wire attachments. I have threaded rod that extends through the fuse from the inside. The flying wires connect to their attachment that is slid over this protruding threaded section and a nut secures it. The purpose of this is to be able to remove the flying wires and wings as a unit making for easier assembly and dis-assembly.
Now a question to you.. where is the stress transfered to? The clevis is still attached to the fuse side someplace? Just wondering here..

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/12/2005 3:51 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Randy,
BOY, your doing a superb job on that aeroplane!
I thought I would give you a few more ideas to experiment with.
Try Stitch Wichery for bonding the lithoplate to wood, fabric etc. Its a heat activated polyamid adheasive sheet that works well for that type of application. Parts can be reheated & repositioned. You can find it in the sewing shops.
Try "Bar Keepers Friend" on the litho plate for an older looking appearance. What ever chemical, besides the pumice thats in it, seems to dull the aluminum in a uniform appearance.
I have used a thin smear of Joy dishwashing soap on lithoplate to indicate the correct amount of heat for anealing. (it will turn brown at the correct temp)
I'm enjoying checking in on your build ! Thanks!
Reg

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/12/2005 5:11 PM   
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Lets say I'm trying to land in a crosswind, and the airplane goes up on one wheel and I drag the downwind wing tip and the airplane ends up with the tail in the air and is resting on the nose and one set of wings. Now this is all for the purposes of discussion, it never happens in real life! Well, there is a lot of pressure on that downwind set of wings, do to the rolling action of the airplane and the forward movement. Much of that pressure or force will be transfered to the fuse via the flying wires, and if those wires terminate at the fuselage upright that little upright will have to withstand the force or break. My point is that if the hardpoint for the flying wire goes through the fuselage via the threaded rod the force is distributed to both sides of the fuselage and along the opposing set of wires eventually to the other wing, having the airplane absorb the stress as a unit rather than having one area take all the strain. My Nieuport has drag wires that route from the fuselage side at the firewall to the interplane strut attachment on the lower wing. This is a little different but if it would drag a wing tip the effect was that it tried to separate the fuselage side from the firewall. Now I have a rod that passes through the fuselage and connects the drag wires on both sides, and now though it may snap a wire, at least it is not trying to pull the fuselage apart. If we could just land into a nice warm, steady 7 or 8 mph headwind all the time life would be good!!!

Randy


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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/12/2005 5:18 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Reg,

Thanks for the nice words and the suggestions!! I'll try and find that stuff and give it a try. I had read that soap would turn brown when the temp for annealing was right, but there are an awful lot of different soaps out there, I thought Joy was just good for dishpan hands!!

The "aging" of the litho was still a big question, I'll try the Barkeepers friend. I had planned to use contact cement to apply the litho but that other stuff sounds great, especially if you can reposition the parts..contact cement is kind of a one shot deal as I'm sure you know.

Randy

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/12/2005 7:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, gotcha. .. Thats exactly what mine do as well..
I used stitch witchery to apply fabric to fiberglass and the stuff works well. You just have to get it up to the right temp. and then it melts into place. It seems to form a good bond and its really cheap too.. Just about any fabric store should carry it.

< Message edited by BobH -- 12/12/2005 7:58 PM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/13/2005 4:38 AM   
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Status: offline 		Haven't got any Stitch witches yet but I have made progress on the aft flying wire hard points and the elevator pushrod. The aft flying wire setup is a little different as I had to bend the 4-40 ready-rod before installing instead of after as I did on the front. So I used two pieces and connected them with a length of brass tubing, soldered in place after everything was assembled. I used tin foil to protect the structure from a wandering soldering iron and a small vise grip plier as a heat sink to protect the wood. The kit came with a pre-made elevator pushrod, but I thought that I'd try to make one anyway. As shown before the pull-pull cables go to a bellcrank that is located in the fuselage at about the stab main spar, and a short push rod goes from there to the elevator horn, exactly as the full scale does. I like the way mine came out so I think I'll use it. If I would just follow directions and stop going off on these little manufacturing projects, I'd get done a lot sooner...but the fun is in the doing----right?

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< Message edited by V2PLUS10 -- 12/13/2005 4:43 AM >

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/13/2005 10:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		I really like the scale hinges that are included in the kit. They add that extra detail that can make or break a model. When I installed mine I had a little trouble getting the brass to curve just so, and then when it came time to drill the stab trailing edge things just didn't work out as I had hoped. What I needed was either new hinge straps or a way to adjust the old ones. I tried making new, with about the same result as the old. I tried gluing some heat shrink tubing into the brass strip, and that helped but made some too tight and others were still loose. Enter my old friend JB-weld! I scuffed the inside of the straps, added some JB and when it set, took a rat-tail file and "machined" the inside radius to fit the elevator leading edge. The results are excellent...now for the rudder....

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/14/2005 1:16 AM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, did you bend the straps around a dowel? That usually does the trick.

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/15/2005 11:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		I've been holding off putting the battery box in because there just ain't anything attactive about it..but it is necessary! Also made the studs for the stab attachment. The front two have nut plates soldered on to help them stay put. The rear studs simply thread into the wood and are glued in place. There will be wire bracing on the stab and fin to help with support also. Added all the little blocks behind the hinges. These will give me a place to attach the fabric covering material and still allow the hinges to operate freely. The hinges are all numbered as they have been made to fit properly only in their respective locations. Glenn provided laser cut step parts. I added the support plate in back of the internal step surround, and there is a second part that will go on top of the fabric once that is installed. It is starting to look as though fuel proofing the front end will be next and then some more prep before covering. All the radio equipment must be installed prior to attaching the front fairings and hoods, and the fabric will go on before the fairings also, but maybe not....we'll see!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/16/2005 1:52 AM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, all very cool!
I had to make my little fuse steps.. fortunately mine are closed all the time so it wasn't too difficult.

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/17/2005 10:27 PM   
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It's all coming together..the parts bags are nearly empty so I must almost be done, right? Well, maybe there are still a few things left to do....

Some time ago there was a discussion about using G-10 for control horns. Glenn provided some laser cut FR-4 (which is the fire proof version) control horn doublers and an aileron rib with the main horn cut as a single unit. Well, I don't like working around things that stick out of the wing or aileron or anywhere else when it comes time to cover, so I adapted the kit parts to allow covering a nearly flat aileron and providing for installation of the FR-4 horn laminate after covering. Once covered and painted the horn can be slipped into place and a little Ca will hold it there nearly forever....

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/18/2005 12:38 AM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, thats a great idea. I'm with you when it comes to covering over stuff sticking up. Yep.. you must be close to done lol!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/22/2005 7:31 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy,
Thanks for doing this build along, I love the step by step viewing over your shoulder while build ing. I think this is going to be my next GTM build and this will help out a lot for ideas for some of the steps of details and like the hinging to put a little JB Weld on the make everyone a tight fit. Thanks again your build looks great.

Mark Petersen

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/26/2005 12:56 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi Mark,

Glad you are enjoying the build , taking and posting the pictures is as much fun as build ing, and it gives the glue a chance to dry too!!

When a build starts to get a little slow my friend says that you just have to add a stick a day, and before you know it you won't have any sticks left in the box, and you're done! I wish it were so simple......

Added a frame and hatch for wing servo access. The fuse has been set aside for now, at least till the other servo hatch is complete.

We are very fortunate to have an indoor flying site for rubber powered models and micro electric r/c. I have a 28" span Hacker J-3 kit that is just asking to be assembled-- that together with a Gasparin twin CO2 motor and three channel micro r/c, I might make a small diversion from the Hanriot ....

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 12/29/2005 3:53 AM   
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Status: offline 		The other servo hatch and frame are complete now. Time to get serious and fuel proof the fuse and get on with the build . When I started this in September, June seemed very far away....but suddenly January first is right around the corner and I've not yet got the model covered!

I'll post a picture of the diversion I mentioned in the previous post. Instead of build ing new I adapted an older Peck Polymer's Zero that I had already built. With any luck I'll get a chance to fly it this weekend. 13" span, 26 grams, rudder, elevator and motor controls, fully proportional, and scale (sort of) to boot!!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 1/9/2006 5:46 AM   
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Status: offline 		I have been making some progress, but most of what I've been doing is sanding, and more sanding. My pile of dust looks like any other so there was no need to post any pictures! All the ribs were very even but the wing ribs that taper down to the tips needed a little work. I had to add a little wood to some and shave down others, but the changes were small and the alignment is good now.

I've tried to make the first litho plate hood. This part will not have plywood backing so it is a little more difficult to form. The first picture shows the template that was included in the kit. I had to trim it a little to fit my fuselage. The second pic is of the litho plate rough cut part, and the last is the part clamped in position. This area will be painted the same color as the fuselage. There is more trimming to be done and I might even make a replacement part at this one got a small indentation from a fat thumb.....!

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 1/9/2006 3:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		Randy, looks good to me.. I can't see the Fat Thumb damage

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RE: GTM Hanriot Build - 1/10/2006 1:11 AM   
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Status: offline 		Tried another panel today. The cockpit surround went pretty well. This thing may end up looking like it is wearing a suit of armour.......I hope it doesn't squeak!!!!

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