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RE: Club FOX! - 4/16/2012 3:52 PM  1 votes
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I found one of my old Fox Quickee 500 engines the other day. I thought I had sold or traded them all away years ago. Anyway, this one had the head modified by Nelson to use the Nelson glow plug. The Nelson Glow plug was a precursor to the Turbo Plugs you see on car engines today. But what makes it interesting is that you do not use a gasket with the plug, it seals via the tip of the glow plug, and thus isolates the space between the threads to improve compression a little more. The glow plug socket in the head is made special for that purpose.  The Nelson plug is also larger than a regular glow plug too.  I might have to fire this engine back up and see how it does today. Maybe make a video clip of it running or something like that. I think I still have some pylon racing props I custom tuned that I made years ago. I need to go and dig them up too. The engine also has the special made firewall backplate mount for the Fox engines too. This plate I bought, but the plate is more or less a flat piece of metal so one could make up up easily enough using a drill press and some hand files, etc. The engine also has the "big bore" Fox carb on it as well as the special Fox Quickee racing tuned muffler.   

I used to tune the engine to run around 16,000 RPms on the ground, it would unload faster in the air of course. The trick though was to find a prop/engine/plane combination that worked Ok together. If the prop was too small, you would slow down too much in the turns and accelerate too slowly down the straights. If the prop was too big, you would go fast in the turns but everyone would pass you down the straights.

This is after cleaning it up some as it was gunky from all the old castor oil, fuel etc. I used some Dawn Power Dissolver on it. It leaves a little rust residue on the ferrous screw parts, etc. But a little oil takes care of that.




It is hard to compare the big bore carb from the standard carb, but it sort of looks like someone took a drill bit and drilled it out larger. Nothing fancy to to how they made it. But with that big bore carb you really have to keep the RPMs up high to get any fuel draw through the carb.


Before I cleaned it up.





Fox used a ABC cylinder piston setup in the engine, but the ports were really huge in comparison to other engines. As shown in this pic.


These drawing show how the huge ports were used to increase the air/fuel flow into the combustion chamber
Conventional engine porting flow


Fox Quickee engine porting flow


The Fox Quickee crankshaft had some modifications done to it as well.





< Message edited by earlwb -- 4/16/2012 4:23 PM >

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/16/2012 5:14 PM  1 votes
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		If you missed it here is the RCM MAr 1989 Magazine Review that was done for the Quickee 500 engine years ago;











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RE: Club FOX! - 4/17/2012 10:42 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		I finally got a nice day to run this 1983 Fox .40 small case engine. With the help of a new piston and liner courtesy of EarlWB, it's alive!

It will not stay running with a Fox idle bar plug, but it runs on it. I swapped to a McCoy MC59 and it runs without glow. First 3 minute run was with a 9x6 APC and 5%nitro 25% castor. I got a tach reading of 6800rpm.

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/17/2012 10:54 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I hope it is just you are still running it rich, but usually they turn a 10x6 prop at around 11,000 rpms or so.
You did have the tach on two blade versus 3 blade too.



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/17/2012 11:14 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: earlwb

I hope it is just you are still running it rich, but usually they turn a 10x6 prop at around 11,000 rpms or so.
You did have the tach on two blade versus 3 blade too.



I am breaking it in. I don't mess around when I break in lapped engines. I give it a good hour before I trust the engine. After half a gallon I'll have leaned it down to about 2000rpm rich of peak. Slow and steady wins the race. That's my motto.

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/17/2012 11:24 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		Cool, you had me a bit concerned there.
But yeah I do the same thing too.



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/17/2012 11:56 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: earlwb

Cool, you had me a bit concerned there.
But yeah I do the same thing too.



3rd run it ate the wristpin g-clip again. I have to take it apart and assess the damage. It might be okay.

edit: I pulled the engine apart and it indeed was the g-clip from one side of the piston that came through the transfer port and scored the cylinder. There are 4 or 5 knicks in the piston and the cylinder but since the engine hasnt been broke in all the way, there's a chance it might survive though I'm not sure for how long. I dont have any more spare g-clips so I'll have to get a hold of some and see if I can get one to stay in it this time. I dont think the clip was seated all the way into the bottom of the groove, perhaps a smaller diameter wire will work better.

Being that the wristpin is open to the transfers, I couldnt use a teflon pad in there like my buddy hoped I could do...

< Message edited by 1QwkSport2.5r -- 4/18/2012 1:48 AM >

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 1:48 AM   
hsukaria


 

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ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r


quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

Cool, you had me a bit concerned there.
But yeah I do the same thing too.



3rd run it ate the wristpin g-clip again. I have to take it apart and assess the damage. It might be okay.

Ouch!!!

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 1:50 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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ORIGINAL: hsukaria


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r


quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

Cool, you had me a bit concerned there.
But yeah I do the same thing too.



3rd run it ate the wristpin g-clip again. I have to take it apart and assess the damage. It might be okay.

Ouch!!!

Yes, indeed. This is the same thing that took out the original piston and liner. This new piston and liner still have a really snug fit; I wonder if through a slow break-in if it will still seal well and run good after all. I doubt it but who knows...

I'm really bummed.

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 1:53 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		Aww man. Bummer. I think it'll be OK. Use more castor oil and it'll fill in the tiny scratch for you.



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 1:56 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Aww man. Bummer. I think it'll be OK. Use more castor oil and it'll fill in the tiny scratch for you.




The scratches arent real small, but the fit it still tight between the piston and liner so maybe if I can find a clip that fits without having to order online, I'll try running it again. The compression on this engine after the first run was insane. I backflip started it on the 2nd run. 3rd run needed the electric starter and I think that was karma kicking in.



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 1:58 AM   
Cougar429


 

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Status: offline 		Anyone fit a composite button in place of the clip on problem motors like that?

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 2:05 AM   
fujiman


 

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Status: offline 		fox use to sell a lapping and polishing compound to help re-fit or should i say help break in overly tite engines, seat rings, etc.. kind of like bonami polishing/cleaning powder. just don't remember their names and i don't know if they still sell them. you have to be very careful on how and hoe much you would use as i remember.

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 3:08 AM  1 votes
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I don't recommend using Fox Lustrox polishing compound as if you are inexperienced with it, you can wear out the engine almost immediately with the stuff. But it works pretty good for lapping valves in on a four stroke engine though. But still you have to be very careful only a little tiny bit will do.


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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 3:11 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		Well, I did some fiddling around and found a spring from a broken pen that fits the groove in the piston almost perfectly. I just made a "C" loop with maybe .25mm gap between the ends. Its not hardened spring steel, but it might do the trick. It fits better than the G-clip that broke.

There is no divider in the transfer port in the liner, otherwise I could use a teflon pad in there instead. So I may try it this way. I haven't much to lose at this point. The piston is pretty snug in the liner now... Should I lap it with a mild kitchen cleanser or something before trying to run it again? I have Bar Keepers Friend on-hand, but I dont know if thats too abrasive. Toothpaste is another one, but maybe not abrasive enough?



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 3:47 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I would say no. Just run it rich and have heat cycles where after you run it let it cool off before you run it again. It'll loosen up, but likely later rather than sooner.



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 4:01 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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I would say no. Just run it rich and have heat cycles where after you run it let it cool off before you run it again. It'll loosen up, but likely later rather than sooner.



I put my homemade clip in and tried for about 5 minutes with a blade to get it out. It stayed in there, so I put it back together and I'll try running it again. I'll go at it like I was heating it up and cooling it off running rich. I'll post back with results.

There is some leakage in the scored area, but I'm sure it will run.

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 12:57 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		The scratch will fill in some with castor oil varnish. So if it isn't too big it will more or less disappear to some extent. I have had engines before, when I lived in dusty Arizona, get pretty badly scratched up in the inside, but they would still run acceptably though. I don't think the power loss was too bad.



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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 3:46 PM   
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Status: offline 		Consider it a clearance groove!

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 5:59 PM   
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Status: offline 		The Power of Positive Thinking!!!

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 7:58 PM  1 votes
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I remembered that I had a similar situation when I replaced the bearings and piston ring in one of my old Hawk .60 engines a couple of years ago. I had discovered that the circlip had disappeared too. It apparently broke apart and the pieces left the engine however they could. But for some odd reason the cylinder wasn't scratched, but there were some dings and gouges in the aluminum here and there. But the cylinder was especially hardened on the inside to be very hard and long wearing though. So the circlip probably wasn't hard enough to damage the cylinder. Interestingly I flew this engine in a couple of airboats and on several airplanes. I never knew the circlip had come out all that time either. I retired the engine when the crankshaft bearings were going bad and getting loose. Since I had other .60 engines I had little motivation at the time to fix the engine.

I think the circlips broke and got sucked out into the intake passages and into the combustion chamber and on out the exhaust. But when it happened will be a mystery I as I used the engine for several years from around 1977 on through 1983. I am planning on putting it on something else one of these days too. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

You can see where the circlip on the wristpin had come out and gouged a chunk of the piston out in this pic.  I replaced the circlip, but I think the varnish on castor oil residue was holding the wrist pin in better that the circlips could. I am concerned about the little circlips though as a few of them broke when I was inserting them into the piston/groove. So it was probably better to have not bothered putting in a new retaining circlip in there.




Some divots on the head too.


Looks like matching divots on then piston crown too





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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 8:43 PM   
hsukaria


 

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Status: offline 		Earl,
Would you leave the dings as they are or would you polish them off when you rebuild?

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 9:06 PM  1 votes
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I left them alone. I figured if I messed with them it might lower the compression ratio.


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RE: Club FOX! - 4/18/2012 11:19 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		Well, I got about 1 minute out of it before the new clip broke. Made another one from a different spring and got more time from it. 3oz of fuel worth. It loosened up a little, so it may live still yet. I think I'll go find a snap ring and be done with it. The scoring goes from the top of the piston to about 3/4 down. The liner scraches are shorter. I don't think this liner is hardened. I scraped the dings in the transfer port with a utility knife.

The broken clips are happening in the rear transfer port. The scratches are horrible but it still runs. I'm quite surprised.

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RE: Club FOX! - 4/19/2012 12:13 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		It survived another run.. I made a video of it this time. It took some time to get the carb just right so it would start reliably, but I think I have it in the ballpark. I left the glow on it for a couple runs so it would stay running better while the piston and liner loosened up a little from the last mishap. Without glow at its current mixture setting is running about 7200rpm or so. I have my fingers crossed that it stays alive, I'd like to see what it can do later on.

Fuel is 5% nitro 25% castor, no synthetic. Glow plug is McCoy MC59 hot, prop is a 9x6 APC. About 55°F air temp.

http://youtu.be/Mw_AJXbtopc

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