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RE: Club FOX! - 8/9/2007 11:19 PM   
RaceCity



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Status: offline 		RHarding...

Keep an eye on the internet auctions for the parts you need. Also, I'd double check with Fox regarding those parts. Ask for Randy. The front desk girls only know what's on the computer screen.

They have everything in a box someplace at the shop, and it's really just a matter of somebody going out there and rummaging around to find it.

Good Luck

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RE: Club FOX! - 8/10/2007 12:13 AM   
RHarding


 

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Status: offline 		RaceCity,

They have been very good about doing that for me. Some of the parts they can find and some they can't.

Are you aware of Fox making a 36X with not only a slanted venturi but slanted to the right also (looking at the engine from the front)? A fellow gave me two of them today. I think I will take a picture and send it to Fox. Maybe they can tell me about it. Could have been done by the fellow who owned the engines some time ago.

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RE: Club FOX! - 8/11/2007 6:00 AM   
cutaway


 

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ORIGINAL: RHarding
but slanted to the right also (looking at the engine from the front)?


That was part of Scarinzi's mods. Very common mod for non-restricted pressurized systems used for combat. I moded several of my 36X's this way.


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RE: Club FOX! - 8/11/2007 5:48 PM   
RHarding


 

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Cutaway,

Thanks for the reply about the 36X's. Tell me more. Who was Scarinzi? Was it necessary to run an insert in the venturi? What prop? What kind of RPM? Did you use a stock 36X needle valve assembly? Are they worth keeping in a collection? If not I will put them up for sale.

Thanks,

Richard


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RE: Club FOX! - 8/11/2007 7:53 PM   
WhiteRook



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Status: offline 		fox'es are reliable as bricks , but the carbs are finicky. the ringed ones will
run forever. i've got 2 older 45's needing carbs, one is the real old shinny case version. theyve got monster compression.

which version carb is the best for these engines, the 2 needle or the EZ?,

THANKS RCU

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RE: Club FOX! - 8/11/2007 8:23 PM   
kamakazi



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Status: offline 		WhiteRock, by all means get the 2 needle carb if possible, i've never had any luck with an air bleed carb, and thats all Enya uses.

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RE: Club FOX! - 8/11/2007 8:52 PM   
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ORIGINAL: kamakazi

WhiteRock, by all means get the 2 needle carb if possible, i've never had any luck with an air bleed carb, and thats all Enya uses.



--------------


When I first started flying R/C there were only two kinds of carbs. The first isn't worth mentioning because it did not use a butterfly or a drum in the throat of the carb. You simply selected between one needle valve set lean and another set rich. The air bleed carb was the other alternative. If you went to a flying field back in those days, you would see folks flying just like they do today. Start up, idle, taxi out to the runway, takeoff, fly around with various throttle settings and then land with an idling engine, assuming the carb adjuster knew what he was doing and the model/engine combo did not have any tank set up faults. Indistinguishable from today. Air bleed carbs work just fine when everything is set up as it should be. They do not deserve a bad reputation at all.

Enya offers two kinds of air bleed carbs. Both were to perfection when adjusted properly.

The first is the conventional airbleed carb, with which we are all familiar.

The second is a metered carb with an air bleed trimmer. This type of carb is every bit as sophisticated and finely adjustable as any OS two needle carb. It does not suffer any of the minor disadvantages of the conventional air bleed carb. This is the type of carb that comes on the Enya 1.20R and 1.55R. It also comes on the Enya .40CX, .45CX, .50CX and possibly the .61CX. I haven't checked the .61CX as yet, but at a glance it appears to be the same carb. The YS.91AC originally used the metered carb with an air bleed trimmer. I suspect they took so much flack over this from customers that they just caved in and changed to a needle trimmer on the 1.10, just to avoid the argument from those that didn't know any better.

The "problem" with these carbs is that the low speed adjustment screw works in reverse when compared to a conventional two needle carb. That is, to lean the low speed mixture, you must screw the air bleed screw "out", not "in" as you would on a two needle carb. This alone is enough to give folks that cut their teeth on a conventional two needle carb fits. For some reason, they just can't make the leap to "out" for lean and "in" for rich.

True air bleed carbs are a little more sensitive to tank height, or can be. Of course, this is why the two needle carb was invented. It is an improvement over a conventional air bleed carb. The modern two needle carb is the same as the Enya metered air bleed carb, however. I wish that Enya would take the time to explain the differences in their owner's manual. It would help their sales considerably, since so many folks are down on any kind of an air bleed carb because they don't know any better.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Club FOX! - 8/12/2007 1:48 AM   
RaceCity



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Status: offline 		Ed, they'd have to read the owners manual first, and we both know that's not going to happen.



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RE: Club FOX! - 8/12/2007 2:30 AM   
WhiteRook



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Status: offline 		can you still get the 2 needle carb for the FOX? 45

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RE: Club FOX! - 8/12/2007 2:38 AM   
RaceCity



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Status: offline 		I believe you can....let me see here....(rummaging through my expansive library of all things Fox....)

You are looking for Fox part #2700

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RE: Club FOX! - 8/12/2007 4:43 AM   
WhiteRook



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RE: Club FOX! - 8/12/2007 6:05 AM   
kamakazi



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Status: offline 		Well im glad to find that out about Enya carbs, cause I have an Enya 40CX. Im gonna get right to work on that thing , I need it for my next project. I didn't realize that screwing the needle out leaned the mixture and screwing it in richened it. I wondered why the hell it always started slobbering a lot when i'd try to "lean" it out.

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/6/2007 6:03 PM   
MScooling


 

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Status: offline 		Hello All,

I have a Fox 15BB R/C I'm having problems with. I have the engine tuned great when on the ground, but once in flight it will almost always die. It sounds like it leans out, looses power, then quits. The cylinder head is smoking hot once I manage to land it. No matter how rich I run it on the ground, it leans out in flight and quits. So far I have lost 2 Lanier Shrikes due to this engine.

I understand you cannot tune it like an O.S./Japanese engine. The instruction manual calls for 3.5 turns on the high speed and 1 turn on the low speed. At one turn on the low speed, it will not even start. I need at least 3 turns to get it running reliably on the ground.

I have cleaned out the carb (MKX), needles look brand new, compression is good, muffler is tight, fuel tank is level with the carb (even tried different fuel tanks and fuel lines). Break-in was done according to the manual, and there's at least a gallon of fuel through this engine.

I'm running Morgan's 15% Omega. I've checked out Flitetlinesolutions, used their tips and still the same problems.

Anyways, I'm out of ideas.... I'd like to get this engine working, but if I loose one more plane to a dead stick it's going in the garbage.

Thanks.

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/6/2007 6:54 PM   
RaceCity



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Status: offline 		Don't throw it away....send it to me!

First off...the need to open the LS needle excessively says that there's either a restriction (pinch) in the fuel line, or...an air leak which is limiting the engines ability to draw fuel.

The "leaning out" and overheating is further evidence that this thing isn't getting enough fuel.

It's easier to diagnose these sorts of problems outside the plane, and on a test stand. If you have one....set it up with a KNOWN GOOD tank & plumbing and give it a try. Not with another tank crammed into the plane, because that's where these problems often originate. Get everything in the open so you can see what's going on.

If under these circumstance you're having the same basic problem, then there's likely a leak at the engine. The .15BB has not only a flange mount for the carb, but there's also another point right at the base of the carb body (see the allen head set screw up under there?) that could leak.

Check the backplate screws....make sure they're all tight.

The fuel is marginal for this motor, but should work. I'd add a few ounces of castor to that Omega to bring it up to 20% total oil.

Just an added note: Make sure you're not trying to run a LONG idle bar plug with this engine.

Let us know.



< Message edited by RaceCity -- 9/6/2007 8:18 PM >

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/9/2007 12:55 AM   
TheHawklord


 

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Status: offline 		Can someone advise on an engine I have aquired a Tartan 22CC Glow engine - I belive it is an early Fox model

Thanks

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/9/2007 7:57 AM   
RaceCity



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Status: offline 		Tartan had nothing to do with Fox. The Tartan engines were imported by IndyRC some years ago.

I believe there are some fellas who freqent this forum who have some experience with those engines.



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RE: Club FOX! - 9/9/2007 6:12 PM   
TheHawklord


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the info

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/9/2007 7:32 PM   
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Status: offline 		I have the fox .15 with c/l venturi. Fox instructions state this engine MUST be run on fuel containing 20% castor for lube. I have been running duke's in mine without any problems. The piston is iron running in a steel sleeve, so lots of castor is a must. I don't think straight omega is going to cut it here. Probably explains why your engine is getting so hot.

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/10/2007 12:36 AM   
Sport_Pilot



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I'm running Morgan's 15% Omega.


My experiance is that it may not run well on this fuel till its broken in. Otherwise the excess friction will heat up the cylinder causing the seal between the piston and cylinder to be broken, this allows blowby which further heats the engine. It will act exactly like it is running too lean.

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/20/2007 1:34 AM   
rainedave



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Status: offline 		I think Duke, bless his heart, was a strange bird.

I just finished running an old - 1965, I think, .15 R/C. I had to familiarize myself with his "carburetor" since I've never seen anything like it before. The fuel line nipple is the LS adjustment.

It starts easily with a healthy prime. But, what surprised me was how well the throttle actually works. It doesn't look like it would, but it does. It's pretty loud running wide open, sort of like my Medallion .15 w/throttle.

Anyway, I thought I'd post some photos since this is the Fox thread. I actually have a set of plans that shows this very engine: the Peppermint Pattie.

David

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/20/2007 2:18 AM   
kamakazi



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Status: offline 		Yep, i recognize the engine. It was the 1st R/C engine I owned. I think the fuel line turned with the throttle arm when you moved it, could be wrong, that was 1973.

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/21/2007 9:40 AM   
fmichaelb


 

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Status: offline 		I remember the grab boxes, I still have the 45 BB RC that I bought from one of them in must have been 1982. Never had any trouble with it (Duke made me promise to always use 20% pure castor in it, and I always did, although to be honest, I haven't run it in 7 or 8 years, but it ran fine the last time I tried it). BTW, not saying they DON'T still make engines, nor that they're planning on quitting doing so, but you know it's just a small part of their business. They do a lot of (and I suspect make the majority of their income from) contracting sub-assemblies and 'to order' machine work for other manufacturers. Here's their website for that line of business: www.foxqualityaero.com

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RE: Club FOX! - 9/21/2007 10:17 AM   
NM2K


 

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ORIGINAL: rainedave

I think Duke, bless his heart, was a strange bird.

I just finished running an old - 1965, I think, .15 R/C. I had to familiarize myself with his "carburetor" since I've never seen anything like it before. The fuel line nipple is the LS adjustment.

It starts easily with a healthy prime. But, what surprised me was how well the throttle actually works. It doesn't look like it would, but it does. It's pretty loud running wide open, sort of like my Medallion .15 w/throttle.

Anyway, I thought I'd post some photos since this is the Fox thread. I actually have a set of plans that shows this very engine: the Peppermint Pattie.

David



------------


I had no idea that the rotatable (and adjustable) fuel nipple carb went back that far. I learned something new today.

I learned how to fly inverted (control line) using one of these engines with the non throttle carb. Break-in? What was that? It was 1962 and I didn't know anything about castor oil. I was using 39 Glo by Testors fuel at the time. It was the only thing our local hobbyshop would stock.

My biggest complaint with many Fox engines was their approach to designing and implementing mufflers. Some of them were good at staying on the engine, but many of them continually loosened during flight and fell into the weeds. Oddly enough, I never lost one (luck), but I know plenty of folks that did and they grew tired of it and stopped using Fox engines because of it.

I had a Fox .45 BB that I bought in the late seventies from Tower Hobbies. It was extremely high revving and had a raised "wart" on the intake bypass side of the crankcase. It ran great, once you figured out how to adjust the carb (RTFM stupid!). The only problem I had with it was that sometimes it would just quit for no apparent reason. I never did figure out what was up with that, but it sure could honk when it did run. I ended up selling it to a friend. I still miss that engine. It was unique.

My original Fox Eagle .60 (baffled piston) was a real bear to break-in with its two piston rings. Two hours slobbery rich on the bench and it still wouldn't finish a tank of fuel when flying in the model. Nope, not bubbles in the fuel line. Just tight. At about 50 flights it transitioned into a wonderful engine, but still required an electric starter to get it going without wearing out my arm. I usually get engines to hand start within a few flips. Don't know what I was doing wrong to this day.

This engine would not rev above 10.5k rpm, regardless of how small the prop was (10x6). But, you could load it down with a hefty 12x7 or 13x6 and it still turned 10.5k rpm. Others have since told me that their Eagle .60's turned another thousand rpm, but did not like props larger than an 11x7.5. I have no idea why mine was different. No, I didn't take it apart and accidentally reverse the sleeve, but I did think about checking it. However, gazing into the exhaust port revealed that everything was lined up properly.

I had this Eagle .60 on a heavy Kaos I had built. While the Kaos did not fly fast with this engine, the engine did not slow down in typical two-stroke fashion when looping. I had/have never seen anything like it. I put many, many flights on that engine and model combo. I wish I could fly it again now, just for the memories.

Ed Cregger


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RE: Club FOX! - 9/21/2007 10:25 AM   
NM2K


 

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ORIGINAL: MScooling

Hello All,

I have a Fox 15BB R/C I'm having problems with. I have the engine tuned great when on the ground, but once in flight it will almost always die. It sounds like it leans out, looses power, then quits. The cylinder head is smoking hot once I manage to land it. No matter how rich I run it on the ground, it leans out in flight and quits. So far I have lost 2 Lanier Shrikes due to this engine.

I understand you cannot tune it like an O.S./Japanese engine. The instruction manual calls for 3.5 turns on the high speed and 1 turn on the low speed. At one turn on the low speed, it will not even start. I need at least 3 turns to get it running reliably on the ground.

I have cleaned out the carb (MKX), needles look brand new, compression is good, muffler is tight, fuel tank is level with the carb (even tried different fuel tanks and fuel lines). Break-in was done according to the manual, and there's at least a gallon of fuel through this engine.

I'm running Morgan's 15% Omega. I've checked out Flitetlinesolutions, used their tips and still the same problems.

Anyways, I'm out of ideas.... I'd like to get this engine working, but if I loose one more plane to a dead stick it's going in the garbage.

Thanks.



-----------


Ditto, don't throw it away.

Get some castor oil and add several ounces to your fuel. Duke's engines need castor oil. Omega only has a smidgeon of castor oil, which is not enough for a Fox engine. This is for real, not a joke.

Another thing is not to load this engine down with too much prop. A 9x4 to 9x5 is perfect. I'd lean toward the 9x4. Duke's own words into my ears via telephone was that his engines need to turn up for the carbs and porting/timing to work properly.

I would check your model's fuel tank and ensure that it is not touching any of the wood parts of your model. Fuel foaming will cause exactly the same symptoms that you have described. I have a feeling that if you isolate your fuel tank with "loose" foam rubber (this means no fuel tank neck through the firewall), even if you have to reduce the fuel tank size to accomodate the foam, you will solve your problems.

The Fox .19BB and .25BB are honking engines and should be ran that way.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Club FOX! - 9/21/2007 8:26 PM   
Fwoosh



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Status: offline 		I had a Fox with one of those carbs with the fuel nipple as the low speed adjustment. Weird. I think it was on a .25.

My trainer had a .15 plain bearing Fox that I got from AHC out of NYC (remember them?) that ran and ran and ran. Out of the box, I couldn't get the Fox carb to work well, so I made an adapter and put an OS carb on it. Started easy, idled beautifully, wonderful motor. Sold it with the plane.

I have late model ringed .45. Strong, heavy, honking engine. Starts easy, idles beautifully, wonderful motor. It also has a home made adapter with an OS carb on it. It's worn out, I found a replacement engine, and will be swapping it out and putting the OS carb on it.

SO, why not just buy an OS engine instead and save all the work? Well, experimentation is fun, and I already bought the engines...

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