Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

I have posted 2 panorama images of Abbott Field, a rural Indiana grass RC flying field. These images may be downloaded from the FlyingCirkus forum site, see the latest image sized for AFPD at http://www.flyingcirkus.com/forum/AF...m_87657/tm.htm

An earlier post there includes the same panorama image sized for Reflex XTR. I believe that either of these 2 images can also be imported into G3. The panorama files had to be radically compressed in order to meet the Cirkus 2MB limitation on file upload size, however I believe sufficient detail remains for the user to enjoy flying the sim at this fine grass strip... Enjoy!!

Charlie

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

If you like I'd be more then glad to post the image for you at hi res.

The field is awesome ... would love to see this one mapped for objects.

dafid

Blinder Charlie. "The ole socks a bit limp, not much wind about to day".
thanks
Regards Dave

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Dion, I appreciate your offer and will send you a PM... Thanks, Charlie

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Also I suggest that you put horizon of the image or what would be the horizon dead center. This gives the best perspective.

I'm not sure if you measured this. The horizon would be where the ground meets the trees in your image.

It's ok to have some white space at the top if you need too, that's hard to find or just color it blue.

Your image is so nice, I'm looking forward to seeing it at hi-res and hopefully we can locate someone to map it out for objects.



Rodeo ... are you out there? Have you seen this image? It's amazing.

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Dion et. al.,

Re the height of the horizon, please see my response to a similar question in the AFPD support forum... You seem to be among at least a plurality re your assessment about the horizon!!

Never mind! That AFPD thread just got the axe!

To answer your assertion (or question) re the proper height for the horizon in the pano image, I would agree that the exact center of the panorama frame should be the nominal location for the horizon, i.e., at exactly 2048 pixels down for AFPD panos... 2040 for Reflex XTR panos. The placement of the horizon will strongly influence the perception of scale between the aircraft and the background, sometimes radically so. If the horizon is placed too high the aircraft will sometimes seem miniscule compared to the grass on the field, for example; too low and the aircraft will sometimes appear much too large. In practice, however, it is sometimes difficult to tell exactly where that sweet spot is located.

You can try your own hand at this process simply by copying and pasting the pano image into a new 8192x4096 AFPD frame and then positioning the image either higher or lower within the frame itself... When you think you have it right, save it under a new name, and use the AFPD installation wizard to generate a new scenery and try it out. It will generally be quite obvious if you have missed the mark. Apparenty several readers feel that that is precisely the case with the present pano image. I can only say that this height seemed about right to me, but perhaps I need my eyes adjusted after fooling with these images for weeks now!!

Consider the image clips shown below... these show you precisely where the 'horizon' is located in this pano image. Clip1 is facing North (opposite the shelter) and shows the intersection of the grass flying strip and the adjacent stand of corn, the marker shows a height of 2080 at this point. Looking West(2) or East(3) the markers show heights closer to 1980; for the record the East end of the field actually does lie somewhat lower. My point is that sometimes it is difficult to tell exactly where the 'horizon' actually does lie.

In the present pano, I believe that if the horizon were lowered some 70 pixels in the frame, such that the 1980 West and East markers were instead showing 2048, we would now find that the horizon would appear to be too low within the sim... i.e., the scale of the aircraft within the sim would appear to be proportionally too large relative to the background.

Anyone care to do a little exercise for extra credit? Check it out and let us know what you think!

Charlie

rc-rodeo

Hi there,

that's a really beautiful scenery. Absolutely worth to work on it, many people will love this environment.
Many thanks, Bucko!

White spot:
A tip to avoid the white spot at the bottom of the image: Just copy and paste a strip of the grass ground to the lower part. You may mirror the strip to fit accurately to the existing ground.

GEO:
After installation it's always good to adjust sunlight in the GEO file, as well as different starting positions for the aircrafts and helis. Also the contest data can be adjusted to match the scenery.

Horizon:
The standard ground object is a completely flat surface. This causes perspective problems if the scenery is not totally flat. We just started to work on terraformed surfaces, but this is difficult without visible control (see next point).

Collision objects:
Ipacs will add the possibility to see 3D objects in the panorama sceneries. This will give us much better control for the collision objects. I'm sure many existing sceneries will be dramatically improved by adding collision objects and terraformed ground in the next few months.

EXE:
Finally the entire scenery data can be packed into a self installing EXE. I got best feedback with these EXE, since ALL users can easily install these aircrafts and sceneries.


Best regards
Rodeo
www.rodeo.onlinehome.de

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Rodeo,

Thanks for your interest in this scenery as well as the kind words and your notes & instructions. As you can see I am a rank novice at this so I especially appreciate your insights particularly those regarding using these pano images within AFPD.

I do also continue to learn from others... in particular the regular contributors to the RC Groups Simulators forum on panorama images, see http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...10#post4333884. From the beginning Chris and Ted of the W3 Group, and BurkhardE, HankF, and others have been extremely helpful and patient. I would recommend this forum thread to others wishing to explore this topic further.

I do understand about the white spot, I just ignored it in the present pano assuming it would not show up in the sim itself. I have even used that mirror image cut and paste trick on the sky when I needed a bit more coverage!!

If you could please elaborate about the GEO file parameters it might be helpful to some of us... for example, you mention adjusting the "contest data" to match the scenery? Huh? Also some general pointers re the lighting and position adjustments would also be helpful, although here trial and error would work... Honestly my attention has been so focused on learning to properly photograph the images and then generate the panorama itself that I have not explored other aspects relating to the sim itself.

I hope that your statement "Collision objects: Ipacs will add the possibility to see 3D objects in the panorama sceneries"... means that Ipacs has plans to provide users the tools to make such panorama scenery manipulations themselves. The "terraformed surfaces" also sounds interesting...

Finally re packing the scenery in a self-installing exe, I have used these and they are idiot-proof, a great boon in this hobby! I haven't a clue how to do this.

When I can finally get the original non-compressed pano image uploaded to Dion, I do hope you will work with us to implement some collision objects and other refinements for the scenery... it is a very fine grass strip and an wonderful location to fly! I am very happy that others will be able to enjoy this in the sim and I appreciate any assistance you can give to make this happen...

Charlie

rc-rodeo

Hi,

actually I've done some operations for the scenery based at your published image.
I will describe the steps and give you a download link tomorrow.

What still needs to be done (it is the major part, and the more difficult as well) is the ground adjustment and the collision objects.
But I would rather wait until we get better tools from Ipacs.

Best regards
Rodeo
www.rodeo.onlinehome.de

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Rodeo I have the large scale image of this file if you would like to take a look. It's VERY pretty at hi res.

If you want I can send a link to the image file, just send me an email.

Bucko is it ok to let this file go into whomever wants it to work on it or to use it? Let me know.

D

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Dion,

Yes, if you are hosting the image on your web site as we discussed, then please go ahead and post a link now so others can download and begin using the panorama in full resolution.

In addition if you and Rodeo can facilitate further scenery refinements, either between yourselves or involving others at your own discretion, that would be great too. My primary investment is simply to have the best implementation of the scenery delivered to the widest audience. I very much appreciate your and Rodeo's assistance in accomplishing this... generating the panorama is about as far as my own expertise goes... some would say that is already a bit beyond my expertise! ;-)

Charlie

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Here is the Pano for AFPD in hi-res. Right mouse click and save as to your computer then use the AFPD Installer to load it. Since the image is passive and not dynamic in the program your frame rate should not drop using this scene.

Bucko I'm going to hold off posting it in the AFPD Download area until we can find someone to map it or not.

Either way if you own AFPD I suggest you install this scene and hopefully if we all cry loud enough someone will map it for us. This is a new version that fits the perspective much better then the low res.

Thanks again Bucko!

[link=http://aeroflypro.com/pano/pano/abbott.jpg]RIGHT CLICK AND SAVE AS - 10 MB JPG[/link]

dafid

Hi STL
Yep hi res is a lot better taken out shading in the sky, ect nice one m8. (99% improved)

Note: 2nd pic your hi res, 3rd pic buckos low res. you can see the difference hi res is much better.

Regards Dave.

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Dion,

Thanks very much for all your help in facilitating the scenery enhancements currently being made to the Abbott Field panorama image, and also for hosting the full resolution panorama image on the Aeroflypro.com site for immediate downloading now...

I do think that the download process would work better for some folks if the file were made available in a zipped format rather than just the actual jpg image... that way the download can be saved directly to disk rather than written to the screen first as it works for me now, takes forever on the dial-up system, don't ya know... ;-)

Dave, glad you like the hi-rez version!!

Charlie

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

All they need to do is right mouse and save as on the link above. Don't just click on it.

I will create a zipped package for the true download with instructions unless someone is going to create it as an EXE which will be even better!

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Sorry, Dion, my mistake... you are correct, works fine the way you describe.

Charlie

Greg.B

It's soooooooo much better in hi-res[X(]!

Thanks for another great scene for AFPD Charlie!!

I want to do a few fields myself ya know, I just wondered if you could help me on a few things??


What stiching program did you use??? Also I'm still not quite sure of the method of taking the photos, like do you take them in 3 rows gradually paning round??? How many photos did you have to take???? Did you use a tripod and some sort of "Pano head"????

It would be great if you could help me!

Here's a few places that I'd like to do:

There's a place called Portholme Meadow here in the UK and it's supposidly the biggest meadow in Europe all I know is it's good for flyin' (Dead flat too!) It would look great in AFPD[8D], It's not far from where I live too.

There's the field just a walk away from my house, Nice for shockys etc....

There's my club field which I think would suite AFPD nicely[8D]!

Etc............................................

Anyways thanks again for the scene!

BW!

Greg.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Fav plane and new fav field.

Bucko

My Feedback: (17)

Greg.B,

Thanks for your interest and your kind words. It certainly was part of my intention here to generate some interest in the use of these panoramas images in the RC simulators, so that others might try their hand at this process at their club's own home RC airfield.

Among the many stitching programs available, there is a very good automatic stitching program called Autostitch, a free demo version is available at www.Autostitch.net. Autostitch is truly remarkable in its capeabilities but the program does have some difficulty rendering featureless blue skies or ambiguously cloudy skies, and under those conditions (only) it tends to render incomplete panoramas. Unfortunately these very conditions are frequently found at our flying fields. Nonetheless Autostitch is instructive and fun to use.

I typically have used a series of programs: Autopano-SIFT, then Hugin, and finally Enblend. Hugin does the lion's share of the work and Enblend does the masterful job of blending together of all the processed images. Let me refer you to an ongoing thread on this very topic at www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373322. Some very intelligent discussion of the issues involved in the photography and in the stitching process as these relate specifically to use in the RC sims... plus good links to other resources.

Also, I believe a tutorial by R.B. Park is probably the best single source that I have found for getting you started in using/understanding the 3 programs mentioned above (Autopano-SIFT, Hugin, & Enblend) see... http://rbpark.ath.cx/photography/pan.../tutorial.html

Park walks you through using each of these programs and also provides links for where each program may be downloaded, plus additional information regarding equipment, etc. In other words it's a pretty good one-stop start-up tutorial which any panorama novice should find very helpful.

You can make a perfectly adequate panorama w/o any special pano head or even w/o a tripod, and Autostitch or perhaps a stitching program that came with your (digital) camera can quickly and automatically stitch your photos into a finished panorama image. It is useful and fun to do some of this to help understand the process.

That said, however, the type and number of images required to make a useful panorama for the RC sims requires a much more demanding type of procedure. The more precision you can apply at each step of the way, the more likely are your chances for success.

Finally, please understand that I am no expert. After many weeks of work I am finally beginning to get the hang of the procedure. I must thank the contributors to the RC Groups thread cited above who have helped me immeasurably by sharing their experience and patience.

Charlie

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well I must say Charlie your first attempt with this for the sims was a good one. I'd love to see a major event like Joe Nall or some other major venue with panorama.

Either way keep em coming!

Greg.B

Thanks very very much Charlie!

That helps a LOT.....the whole thing seems a lot clearer already, thanks also for the links!

I had a go a little while ago and found that the more photos you use the better it gets;~)

Anyways I will let you guys know how I get on!

Thanks again for your help Charlie it is much appreciated!

BW!

Greg.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

There is a new version of this scene posted at aeroflypro.com in the scenery section.

The new version has been sized for best perspective, made as an executable, repositioned the sun's light angle correctly, and also has several start positions.

Thanks to Rodeo for the extra work!

r1derbike

The Abbott panorama (hi-res) imports directly into G3. It looks absolutely incredible! Thanks, guys! ;-}

Charles

r1derbike

Just busted a new frame-rate record on G3 with the Abbott hi-res field;

302 fps idle on runway, and 609 fps in blue-sky area. This was with a twin-turbine powered twinstar modification I found on the G3 swap page. 250-300 mph plane. Fast. Cool.

Charles

hornetnz

I couldnt find the download for the XTR version Anyone see where it is?