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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 2/9/2012 5:42 PM   
vicman



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quote:

Aint this thread dead yet?


I keep coming back to it just to see if you have proven me wrong yet.



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 2/29/2012 2:18 AM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Howdy,

I just noticed this thread.  Since I have a (heavily) tweaked F-20 I thought I'd share my experience with it.  I've had it for 3 years and have been modifying here and there.  Here is a summary of what it is like now:

OS55AX with 10.63x6 (cut down 11x6) prop, Macs muffler, turns 12,900 on the ground.
Clipped wings (about 4" each side), and added missle rails (just for looks and removeable).
Enlarged the horizontal stab by adding to the leading edges and tips (about 20%).
Enlarged the vertcial fin also by adding to leading edges and tip (about 25%), and added tri-stock at the base.
Tapered the ailerons a tad towards the tip.
Installed a new longer canopy.
Added airfoiled pants to all landing gear wires.
Added wing fences - this dramatically improved low speed handling.
Reinforced the firewall with fiberglass and tri-stock and 1/32 ply along the fuse sides.
Dramatically reinforced the main landing gear ribs and relocated the mains about 3" foward.
Recalculated the true neutral point and balanced the plane accordingly.  First flight before mods and CG per instructions was a near disaster - waaaay tail heavy.
Weighs about 6 lbs empty.
Rigged both ailerons to work as flaperons - about 10-15 deg down max, but very effective.
Recovered white areas with red Ultra-Coat.

Wow, I guess I hadn't realised how much I've tweaked this plane.  Wonderful flying airplane, very fun.  Radar clocked in a shallow dive at 115 mph with fixed gear!
Debated with myself whether to buy another and attempt to install retracts, or go with the H9 Jackal.  Well, I went with the Jackal, but it's a heavy plane.  It's only got 2 minutes flying time, but I'm already looking at tweaks for it.

In any case, I just had a ball with the F-20 and although it is not flyable at the moment, it can be made so in a heartbeat if the Jackal doesn't pan out.
I attached a few pics.

Cheers



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 2/29/2012 3:23 AM   
Quikturn


 

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Status: offline 		Sygy,

I like what you did to your F-20. It looks good all red too. Did you add to your canopy or replace it? What type did you use? I think it looks better like that.

I also like the dorsal fairing you added.

Does the airplane tip stall when you use flaperons?


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 2/29/2012 5:03 AM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Quickturn,

I simply had another canopy on hand and, with some cutting a trimming, fitted it over the existing canopy.  Don't even remember where that canopy came from.  Many of my mods were to make this look a tad more like an F-5/20 and I think the canopy really helps this as the original just doesn't quite get it.

The wing fences cured all tendencies toward tip stall, even with flaperons down (only about 10-15 deg).  I can fly at full up elevator at idle and just mush down.  And I have enough elevator to pull a VERY tight loop.

One other thing I did and forgot to mention is that I moved the fuel tank as far aft as I could get it and installed a Perry pump to feed the engine.  This works really well and reduces CG shift with fuel burn.



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 2/29/2012 5:42 PM   
BIuehawk


 

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Status: offline 		The Shark looks great but I'm not sure why you moved the main gear 3 inches forward or how adding to the vertical stab improved it. The other mods make sense to me though!

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 2/29/2012 11:53 PM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		The main gear as designed is very far behind the CG, much farther than is necessary and it only makes takeoff rather "jumpy", and makes the airplane "plop" down on the nosegear on landing (at least mine did).  The new location is about 1.5" behind the CG and makes for very smooth takeoffs and landings.  I can now hold the nose off the runway on landing and put it down when I want, and it rotates just slightly before it lifts off making for a really nice takeoff.

The addition to the horizontal stab was to better match conventional proportions between wing and stab.  The addition to the vertical stab and dorsal fin was just for looks!


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 5/22/2012 6:25 AM   
cap3Der


 

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Status: offline 		How is the plane feels in the air, is it notibly faster or how about wing loading? I kinda enjoy light wing loading on F-20 so landing are like on the rail, and sharp turns in a steep bank makes bolts sink into a wing due to high G loadings flying in a small and tight flight pattern is a lots of fun. So I wonder if you can still make this kind of tight turns without a tip stall on F-20 with clipped wings?

Here is a small vid of it figure8ting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u70VdjkJmdc



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 5/24/2012 6:35 AM   
Kmot



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Status: offline 		The ending of your video is great!

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 5/24/2012 12:21 PM   
vicman



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Status: online 		I've had that happen before. Not on a F-20, and my landing was a little less Harrier like.


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 5/25/2012 3:31 AM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Cap3Der

The plane is even more responsive and maneuverable than the original.  Don't forget that I added wing fences that prevent tip stall.  See my earlier posts for all mods.


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 6/13/2012 11:26 PM   
cap3Der


 

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Status: offline 		Funny, but I'm facing the same delema wether to clip wings or to install the retracts(which will make plane much more heavier), so I guess my question how much faster plane become with all those "tweak" that you did vs. stock? How is your H9 Jackal vs. Phoenix F-20 stucking up?

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 6/14/2012 2:55 AM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		I don't really know if it is much faster than stock as that depends a lot on the motor, but it is faster than any other fixed gear plane at my airfield with the OS55AX, 11x6 apc prop, Macs muffler, and climb rate is awesome.  I didn't mention this before, but I also trimmed back the fake intakes to reduce drag.  It does move quite well!

 I am also thinking about installing retracts, but there isn't much room for the nosewheel.  If I try this I'll buy a new one, install the fuel tank under the canopy and use a fuel pump to feed the engine.  I've done this before, using a "uniflow" type line system to keep the higher tank from flooding the engine - works great.  I just got too many airplane options right now and need to pick one.

I did get a few more flights of the Jackal in and it flew great.  The lower flap setting combined with wing fences and aileron-rudder interconnect allowed me to do quite a few greaser landings right on the centerline in a stiff crosswind.  To me it hasjust a little too high wing loading, and another mod I am considering is enlarging the wing.  In fact, I'm staring at the plane right this moment figuring how to do that and I will consider even building a new one from scratch.

Mike


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 8/10/2012 5:02 AM   
Cyclic Hardover



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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicman

quote:

Aint this thread dead yet?


I keep coming back to it just to see if you have proven me wrong yet.




I keep coming back to see if you still want to ask about those damn retract wings sitting in my closet LOL-How are ya?

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 8/11/2012 3:23 AM   
vicman



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Status: online 		I'm doing pretty good. Sooner or later you are just going to admit that I am right.
Funny to think back, when you and I first started conversing many years ago... The F-20 seemed like an insane fast plane to me. I have now gotten to the point that if it aint Q40 it's a sport plane just up from a trainer. LOL.


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 8/26/2012 5:22 PM   
hamid jr


 

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From: shiraz, IRAN
Status: offline 		hi dear
my location is shiraz- iran &
i am sorry because of i cant speak Eng. very well
i have a problem with my airplane & nobody can help me
i have a f-20 tiger with  asp 52
when i want to take off with this , i must to pull elev. stick down seriously
i think that noise of airplane is very heavy  . thats right ??
is right that CG is locate in 15 cm back of the edge of wing ??
and in the air when throttle is full airplane increase the height very much
can you help me plz...
thanks



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 8/26/2012 5:23 PM   
hamid jr


 

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From: shiraz, IRAN
Status: offline 		hi dear
my location is Shiraz- Iran &
i am sorry because of i cant speak Eng. very well
i have a problem with my airplane & nobody can help me
i have a f-20 tiger with  asp 52
when i want to take off with this , i must to pull elev. stick down seriously
i think that noise of airplane is very heavy  . that's right ??
is right that CG is locate in 15 cm back of the edge of wing ??
and in the air when throttle is full airplane increase the height very much
can you help me plz...
thanks



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/19/2012 4:08 AM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Howdy gents.  Been awhile since I last posted.  Here's a good one.  I am in the process of installing eflite electric retracts in my already highly modified F-20.  Just getting started literally tonight, and I posted some pictures of what madness I get into when bored.  I had seriously considered doing this some time ago, but the Hangar 9 Jackal was temporarily the plane to have these retracts.  Well I don't like the Jackal.  Not that fast, too heavy and not very maneuverable - it high speed stalls in anything but turns the size of Rhode Island.  I almost lost it twice because of this.

Anyway, I thought that this F-20 with all of the mods I already made (see earlier posts) would be phenominal with retracts.  And if the already zippy OS 55 wasn't enough, I can always put my Jett muffler on it to turn a 10.5x6 or 10x7 APC prop at 16,000.  That should make this puppy just short of a rocket ship.  I can only hope it doesn't disintegrate at what I expect to be over 140 mph.  If this works out, I'll get another one and do all the mods and then some to prepare it for near sonic speeds like better hinges and a direct linked servo for every surface.  I have already tried setting the ailerons to work as flaperons which worked fine but wasn't needed at normal weight, but flaperons should tame the moderate (12 oz) weight increase (if needed at all).

I post more pics as I go.  You can see in the attached pics that I simply added a plate to the front end, just short of the firewall.  I left enough room to fit my Perry Pump.  The full tank will go over the wing by moving the throttle and nosewhell servos aft a bit.  One advantage is that there will be no CG shift with fuel burn.  More to come...

Cheers,
Mike




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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/20/2012 2:33 AM   
vicman



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Status: online 		Looks Great so far Mike.


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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/21/2012 4:18 AM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Got the fuel pump installed, neatly tucked in behind the firewall and surrounded by foam.  I don't think it will go anywhere, but I'll put a block of stiff foam over it under the new hatch.
Nose gear is in and tested - love those electrics!  Next step is to move the servos and make room for the tank, then reconnect throttle and steering.  Finally, for the fuselage, make a new front hatch
and clean up and seal the wheel cutout.  After that I'll attack the main gear in the wings.  The mains should not difficult, but it will take some work to cut out the fixed gear blocks, add new rails and make the wheel pockets.

Anybody know where I can get some plastic moulded wheel pockets that might fit?  Sure would save some time.



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/21/2012 2:26 PM   
BIuehawk


 

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Status: offline 		Try spray paint can plastic lids...they make great wheel wells!

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/21/2012 5:19 PM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Great idea Bluehawk.  I thought about plastic cups, but generally too large.

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/21/2012 6:55 PM   
BIuehawk


 

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Status: offline 		Glad I could help...hope they work for you!

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/24/2012 6:23 PM   
Sygy00


 

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Status: offline 		Ready to fly the F-20 with nosewheel retract only.  I want to make sure the pump handles the remote tank OK before I commit to the main gear.  This worked fine on my flying wing, but the tank here is little farther back..  See pictures for new servo and tank location.  Since the tank is now higher than the engine, you must use a "uni-flow" type tank setup or you will never get your engine adjusted.  If you do this, run the new vent line (on the second clunk) to just under the engine.  This will also be your fill line, so make it handy.  You can look up "uni-flow tank" on several sites on the internet.

The blue thing in the middle is a small 1000 mah battery for the retracts.  Never power electric retracts from your radio battery.  A nice thing about the electrics - I can cycle the gear about 200 times on one charge of that small battery.

I didn't even have to change the throttle and steering guide tubes, just had to use a longer pushrod.  Another thing I like about the efite gear is that the nosewheel steering is via a pushrod rather than those messy and troublesome pull cables.



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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/26/2012 11:34 PM   
cap3Der


 

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Status: offline 		CG location is correct, it is 15 cm(150mm) from a front edge of wing at close location to fuselage, fuel tank should be dry(NO fuel). It might sound like you have a problem with elevator surface, also called "trim". When you turn radio on, make sure that elevator is on the same level with a horizontal stabilizer flush(not pointing UP or DOWN), and also make sure that that elevator have movement at least 1,2cm(12mm) UP, and 1,2cm(12mm) DOWN! Let us know if the problem is still there, Good Luck!

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RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ? - 9/26/2012 11:37 PM   
cap3Der


 

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Status: offline 		Sygy00, thanks for doing this build, I can hardly wait for the results and flight report.

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