RE: RC turbo design problems...  
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All Forums >> RC Cars, Buggies, Trucks, Tanks and more >> RC Car Engines >> Car Nitro & Gas Engines >> RE: RC turbo design problems...
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RE: RC turbo design problems... - 10/23/2005 5:33:51 AM   
Moparman1


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I was thinking about "inkfreak's" idea to use a fiber resin the other day then I thought "hey, why can't I put metallic fibers in the molten aluminum?" I could put steel chips or fibers in the molten aluminum before the castings were made and greatly strengthen them for next to free! Machine shops always have tons of shavings left over after machining parts, so why can't I use them? I called up my local machinist and gave him my idea and he said he'd give me the shavings for free. I'm going to have a test casting made to see if it will work and then post the results here.

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       Post #: 26

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 10/31/2005 5:48:30 PM   
Moparman1


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		The first casting didn't turn out right because the metal chips settled to the bottom of the mold while cooling, but once we started using smaller metal chips the suspension problems were solved. They are substantially stronger now, which means I can continue refining the design. If it goes into production it'll probably be through an rc company that already exists, I don't have the recources to produce them on my own. I'll need to research patent assistance and licensing as well. Designing the turbo has been the easy part, it's all the legal crap that'll be hard.

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       Post #: 27

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/8/2005 9:04:27 PM   
TbirdMan


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Sugar Grove, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Not seeing your design I can't say if this would work, but Carbon fibers are strong and very heat resistant, a pattern running latterly out from the center should be very strong centrifugally. Also there are carbon composites that should stand up to the heat and rotational stresses involved, look at Racing brake rotors. But there again you have issues of cost. And just for reference there is always RP46, though that would likely be EXTREMELY pricey, but can be compression molded.
http://www.federallabs.org/servlet/FLCItemDisplayServlet?wItemID=2005-09-20-14-52-06-328-Item

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       Post #: 28

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/8/2005 9:16:13 PM   
TbirdMan


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Sugar Grove, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Also, It might not be a bad idea to look into packageing a pipe specificly tuned to the turbo along with it, I am no expert but i imagane the shockwaves bouncing off the trubo into the Expansion chamber would throw things off.

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       Post #: 29

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/9/2005 2:15:26 AM   
Moparman1


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the help but I'm going to stick with the metal shavings idea, it seems to be working out pretty well. Carbon fiber and carbon composites would work great in this situation because the turbine would be extremely light and spool up almoast instantly, as well as the benefit of no thermal expansion, but like you said it's just too expensive. If you read back a few posts I got in a discussion with a few guys about the effects a turbine would have on the "tune' effect of a tuned pipe, which is why the turbine is mounted after the tuned pipe. When I first started this project I realized putting a turbine in front of the tuned pipe would mess things up so it had to go after the tuned pipe.

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       Post #: 30

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/9/2005 3:26:19 AM   
dannthenitroman


 

Posts: 2097
Joined: 9/10/2005
From: scone, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		thats very clever , what sort of boost would it be possible to produce through this system?

Dann

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       Post #: 31

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/9/2005 11:17:38 PM   
Moparman1


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't been able to measure the maximum amount of boost it can produce because most engines will stop dead when boosted over 10 psi in the crankcase. I've seen momentary peaks of 16 psi at full throttle on some engines, but it's impossible to run it at that level for sustained periods. I prefer to measure psi in the crankcase instead of the base of the throttle because it provides a more accurate pressure measurement when the additional pressure the piston exerts in the crankcase is considered.

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       Post #: 32

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/9/2005 11:27:27 PM   
SManMTB



Posts: 4793
Joined: 4/28/2005
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moparman1

I haven't been able to measure the maximum amount of boost it can produce because most engines will stop dead when boosted over 10 psi in the crankcase. I've seen momentary peaks of 16 psi at full throttle on some engines, but it's impossible to run it at that level for sustained periods. I prefer to measure psi in the crankcase instead of the base of the throttle because it provides a more accurate pressure measurement when the additional pressure the piston exerts in the crankcase is considered.


So you have a prototype up and running?

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       Post #: 33

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/9/2005 11:53:55 PM   
Moparman1


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I'm experimenting with 3 variations right now.

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       Post #: 34

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/18/2005 8:27:23 PM   
TbirdMan


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Sugar Grove, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I happened on something that would Greatly simplify and lower costs. A tesla turbine, you might have issues with slow spool up, but then again maybe not. It uses bladeless disks in a scrolled houseing and thus dose not require cast turbine. you could stamp them out f alu or SS or whatever. you should really research and maybe add a fourth varation to the mix.

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       Post #: 35

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/18/2005 8:45:04 PM   
SManMTB



Posts: 4793
Joined: 4/28/2005
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: online 		Tesla Turbine

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       Post #: 36

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/18/2005 9:32:22 PM   
primedynasty


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: , IN, USA
Status: offline 		The cost effectiveness of the tesla and its ability to reach rpms up to 100,000 is impressive. However two things I would be concerned with: First, it takes something like 40 PSI to get the motor they use spinning at 25k RMPs. How that transfers to air delivered to the engine through the compressor I don't know, but I would be worried about getting that kind of air flow from the exhuast of an RC engine. Second, there is nothing stating what kind of temperture the telsa can handle. Running compressed air is far different from expelled gas tempertures. I will admit I breezed through the reading on the turbine but those were just some of my intial concerns. Anyone with more info?

I would also just like to say hats off to Moparman for taking this all the way into the testing phase. I would love to see a picture but I can understand for innovation reasons why you wouldn't want to do that. Again great job!

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       Post #: 37

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/18/2005 9:42:03 PM   
Moparman1


 

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/16/2005
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I just did a quick search on google to get some info on tesla turbines and you've really got my attention "TbirdMan". They have the potential for incredible abdiatic efficiency, verry light weight, high power output and high boost delivery all from a bunch of polished discs! Why haven't these turbines been used on full scale cars?!!! Or better yet, why aren't they the whole freakin' engine?! I'll have to do some design revision to the turbine housing to get it to work properly, but if it works I might throw the other turbine designs out the window! I might even have one made for my fullsize car. Calculating how much air it can deliver would be very simple, and very cheap. Thanks for the idea, this is just what I've been looking for.

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       Post #: 38

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/18/2005 9:55:49 PM   
TbirdMan


 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Sugar Grove, NC, USA
Status: offline 		http://xt6.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2658&start=30&sid=429d4f730a33ed87a90da4fc8c4b38d0

one company is currently designing an electric Tesla Turbine for full size car engines. Also one reason their turbines take more pressure is their large size and fairly hevy disks. Tesla (a really underappreciated genius) Believed his design, in a turbine motor application could produce 10hp per lb. what made them great was the simplicity, but turbine motors with this design tend to spool up slower, so i am not sure how they will work here, though the oil in the exaust SHOULD increase efficency.

< Message edited by TbirdMan -- 11/18/2005 9:57:23 PM >

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       Post #: 39

RE: RC turbo design problems... - 11/18/2005 10:37:17 PM