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SSC and Open B - 10/4/2005 9:00:57 PM   
MarineDad


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: Saint Marie, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Being a newbe to combat, I have noticed that most of the competitions here in the South tend to relegate Open B to the back burner. Why is this? Of the contest I have witnessed, Open B seemed far more exciting than the SSC competitions. And, it seems that SSC has far more restrictions than Open B. These may be dumb questions, but I will plead rookie ignorance.
       Post #: 1

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/4/2005 11:44:48 PM   
Lou Melancon


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 10/13/2002
From: Alpharetta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		MarineDad,
Since I live in the Southeast and attend almost all the contests in the SE I can give you some of the answers you are looking for.

First, let me point out that SSC has been the most flown event not only in the SE but in the US during both 2004 & 2005. So it is not a localized phenomena, and the good thing for you is that Atlanta has had the most combat events annually in the last two years than any other area of the country.

Now onto the reasons:

1. CDs control what is flown, they choose events that will be most well attended.
2. There are more SSC fliers in the South than there are Open B.
3. Open B contests once held in Nashville, Orlando, Melbourne, Sharps, and West Palm are no longer held.
4. Former Open B fliers have "crossed over" and only fly one class.
5. One day contests, to attract out of town fliers, are now 8 rounds and it is almost impossible to run two classes during one day.
6. New clubs that are developing interest in combat are starting with SSC. The examples of this are Tuscaloosa, Jackson (TN), and Vicksburg (Ms).
7. SSC has been heavily promoted in the SE.

The speed of Open B is certainly a bigger adrenaline rush, but the number of cuts in SSC is higher than it is in Open B. This isn't a made up number or slanting of the facts. It is simply reporting the numbers as listed on the RC Combat Association web site (www.rccombat.com). So, for pilots, if the fun in combat is cuts, then SSC has more cuts.

I think all combat is good. I just wish we could generate some interest in Scale Combat down here in the deep south.

< Message edited by Lou Melancon -- 10/5/2005 12:26:49 AM >

_____________________________

Waco Brotherhood Member #110

(in reply to MarineDad)
       Post #: 2

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 1:13:46 AM   
rrh


 

Posts: 322
Joined: 11/16/2002
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Status: offline 		MarineDad,

I hope I can ask this without offending you but I probably will.....how can you, in one thread offer up such sage sounding advice on covering a wing with rip-stop nylon and in this thread ask this question about SSC vs Open B? You can plead "rookie ignorance" but what is the real question you are asking?

Once again, sorry if I offend, but anyone can register with any name and troll for trouble. Your 3 posts have trolled me in.

My class of choice is SSC. I'm from the north, an old geezer whose reaction time is slowing down but I still can get a cut or 2 in SSC and still fly Open B as well, adrenaline is my drug of choice.

rrh

_____________________________

Randy Hodges
RCCA 745

(in reply to Lou Melancon)
       Post #: 3

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 5:11:59 AM   
MarineDad


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: Saint Marie, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Randy:

My post about rip stop nylon was based on the fact that I just finished covering a wing in that manner. I am new to combat, and in fact new to rc flying. My flying history as a preteen and teenager was limited to building gullows kits and some of sig's control line. I got into RC this year (I am now 43) because my wife bought me a Great Planes p-51 kit (still havn't finished it yet). During the course of my training instruction I was introduced to combat. Since I had a 25 engine, I got an Open B airplane, and covered the wing with rip stop, using directions from some of the combat pilots at my field. I simply posted just what I learned.

My question about Open B vs SSC is based on the contests I have seen in my area in the past few months. More attention is being placed on SSC than Open B. In fact, some combat competitions are limited to SSC only. One contest I traveled to, I had intended on competing for the first time in Open B, but couldn't because it was relegated to the second day, when I had to travel back home.

So I guess I am asking if there is really a shift by the pilots to SSC, or are pilots having to shift to SSC? I'm not an accountant, but I did take a statistics course in college, and it seems to me if you only hold SSC competitions, you get more statistics for SSC than Open B. Kind of like a third world dictator winning an election because he is the only one on the ballot.

(in reply to rrh)
       Post #: 4

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 12:44:47 PM   
Lou Melancon


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 10/13/2002
From: Alpharetta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		MarineDad,
Year to date in the SE there have been nine combat contests: four in Atlanta, two in Tuscaloosa, one in Nashville, and two in Jacksonville. The breakdown of events is:

- 8 SSC
- 3 Open B
- 1 Scale 2548

By thhe end of 2005 there will have been 11 SSC contests, and four Open B events.

Only one of the contest organizers noted above is an Open B flier. The other CDs or organizers fly SSC only.

If there were more Open B CDs there would be more Open B contests. I don't think you can blame a CD who only flies SSC for holding an SSC only contest. Two of the three Open B contests were in Jacksonville but the Open B turnout was so low in both events that the organizer is now questioning tying up his club field for contests that only draw 8 or less participants. His problem is that he wants to hold Open B events but is not getting enough Open B flier support.

The secret to growing any class of combat is to have contests. For Open B to grow more of the Open B fliers need to organize and hold contests. They also need to attend the contests that are held so they don't lose the ones they already have. Neither of these things has been done in the SE for the last couple of year. The driving forces of combat contests: Don Pruitt, Eddie Fulmer, Michael DeWoody, Patrick Lanfri, and I fly SSC (Patrick also flies Open B). So the contests we have held are for SSC which is the event we both fly and promote.

Let me ask you a question. Why should a Contest Director, Event Organizer/Promoter, be required to host events that he does not fly? Isn't it up to the folks who want contest for a certain class responsibility to plan and organize them?

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Waco Brotherhood Member #110

(in reply to MarineDad)
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RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 2:05:46 PM   
MarineDad


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: Saint Marie, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Lou, you just answered my question. From what you said, there are more CDs for SSC than there are for Open B, so I guess the latter part of my statement on pilots shifting is true.

(in reply to Lou Melancon)
       Post #: 6

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 2:49:42 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4630
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Over time, SSC has shown itself to be less stressful and with the current competitive SSC planes, easier to fly and maintain. It's cheaper to get in to, and cheaper to fly on a regular basis. I'll do practice combat with streamers with my SSC planes, but not with my B ships (and you can forget about anything close to practice with scale planes).

And while SSC planes are slower, the action tends to be low and close in and rather tightly flown, making for some very intense flying.

As Lou pointed out, the scores are higher in SSC. I'm honestly not sure if anyone flys SSC just for the higher scores though.

SSC planes also generally survive better than B planes in mid-airs and dirt naps. While nothing stops a propeller from tearing things up (most SSC planes I've seen written off have been due prop cuts), SSC planes usually take less damage from wing taps and ground impacts. (there was a lot of hype early on about SSC and how "surviveable" the planes were or weren't. Things have settled down, and while SSC pretty much proved you can't have indestructable combat as long as you have props, the planes do live longer on average when designed well)

That's not to say there isn't still a lot of interest in B class, and these things do tend to go in cycles.


_____________________________

Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to MarineDad)
       Post #: 7

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 3:30:24 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 2621
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: online 		In Holland (Europe), we fly 1/12 scale planes, and beside the adrenaline, a lot of discussion is going on about the high mortality rate of the planes. Nobody here likes to fly combat with ugly planes.
Building sloppy scale is no fun, but building nice looking planes is very contra-productive. Many pilots loose interest because of the number of mid-airs, and subsequent repairs that are needed, so the number of drop-outs after initial high enthousiasm is quite substantial.

We organize events for the fun of it, and competition is fierce. We are watching USA trends, and the lower speed SSC or 1/8 WW1 seems the answer, because we are reluctant to let go of the scale part.
A dish should not only tate well, It should look well too. Because of that, the spectators just love our competitions and the action that comes with it.
We are weary of the USA trend, that SSC will eventually kill 1/12 scale, which would mean the end of this beautiful and exciting game.

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Pe, Dealer for MVVS, MTW and Mejzlik; www.mvvs.nl
There is sanctuary in analisys.

(in reply to Montague)
       Post #: 8

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/5/2005 3:47:20 PM   
Lou Melancon


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 10/13/2002
From: Alpharetta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Mr. Reivers,
Since the advent of the "Open" classes the participation in "scale" combat has been steadily declining. I think the two are related. In my area of the US there are only a couple of participants in scale combat. The time to build, lack of suitable kits, and the high loss rate of the scale planes all combine to relegate it to the back burner.

MarineDad,
There is an Atlanta SSC contest on October 22nd. I will give you two planes, ready to fly, a computer transmitter, fuel and pit the planes for you for this contest. If they get broken, such is life in combat, no harm no foul. All you have to do is come to the contest and fly, I will take care of all the details for you. The planes are competition grade Georgia Gorillas that have flown at the US Nationals and at other contests since. Both are in top competitive condition and the engines run very well. I will start them, needle them, and launch them for you to try out a combat contest.

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Waco Brotherhood Member #110

(in reply to pe reivers)
       Post #: 9

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/6/2005 12:34:04 PM   
Capn America


 

Posts: 237
Joined: 9/22/2003
From: Holiday City, OH, USA
Status: offline 		You just cant beat a deal like that! Ive been flying open B this my rookie year in combat. So far 10-12 rounds flown a couple mid airs and no unrepairable damage. I think i would prefer to run Open and Limited B if given the choice. One plane to build, one engine to stock. I like the sound of that. I am building an SSC ship this weekend to give it a try but im having trouble getting excited about them at the moment. I guess we will need to get our own CD here in the future so we can be more flexable. Currntly we have been flying open B and C. I like it fast, but i also see the down side of open planes and the rebuilding time. Guess i wont Knock it till i fly it.

(in reply to Lou Melancon)
       Post #: 10

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/6/2005 3:13:26 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4630
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Well, if you really want to go fast, get in to 2610 .

fwiw, my 2610 gear lasts longer than my SSC stuff, and a lot longer than my B gear. The impacts are a lot harder in 2610 scale, but the speeds are so fast that the furball doesn't form up nearly as tight, and it's much more persute flying, so mid-airs are a lot less common. Of course, I'm not flying wood planes either.


_____________________________

Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to Capn America)
       Post #: 11

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/6/2005 6:18:22 PM   
MarineDad


 

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: Saint Marie, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Those last two post bring up an interesting point of view, and an observation that I made this past weekend. I can't downplay the number of midairs that I saw in either competition at Gateway. But, I did notice more repairs taking place during the SSC competition than the Open B. To be fair, a few pilots were switching planes in the Open B, but there was just as many switching in SSC. Is there a substantial difference in the survivability rate between SSC and Open B?

Lou, I will check with the boss about that Saturday.

(in reply to Montague)
       Post #: 12

RE: SSC and Open B - 10/6/2005 8:34:34 PM   
Lou Melancon


 

Posts: 273
Joined: 10/13/2002
From: Alpharetta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Bruce,
I think you will get different answers from different folks. This year I've flown 46 rounds of combat without losing a plane. SSC has a lot more bumping because we fly closer in, in a tighter airspace. I think the lower speeds result in lesser amounts of damage. Again, other's results will vary. I do know I don't ever want to go back to the carnage I had to build through several years ago.

At Jacksonville I lost a coroplast stab when someone flew right through it. I set the plane aside instead of taking the time to bolt on a new stab.

At Tuscaloosa and Bon Aqua I flew the same single plane all day. Some of it is the lower speed, some of it is me being a little bit more wary of barreling through the fur ball to get a cut and some of it is the other pilots are now concentrating on staying up the e