jjpetro

I'm in the process of finishing up the assembly drawings for a Kwik Fli III replica. I have a copy of original MAN plans and the article. However, it is difficult to ascertain exactly how the stab is nestled into the aft portion of the fuse. According to the drawing, it looks like you just cut a slot into the 3/16" aft fuse sides and stick the stab in and glue. Seems too easy and not stout enough. Should be some sort of bed or reinforcement around the slotted opening (if that is actaully what it is). Anybody remember how the original was built?

Hopefully, I will have kits ready by Christmas.

jlingrel

If it is better than the old Graupner kit, I will buy one. Just let me know. And if I remember on the Graupner kit, it was just put in a slot. I think (this was 35 years ago) I added some triangular stock to "beef" it up a little.



John

8178

My Feedback: (17)

It just slid in the slots in the 3/16” balsa sides. Are you going to offer a tapered wing?

jjpetro

For the tapered wing, initially, no. If enough requests, then later on I will. I'll need plans, or a plane to measure, or good wingfoil plots to do it.

I'm planning to offer it modified for today's building techniques (like I did the Primus/Taurus) AND offer it as the MAN magazine article showed - both in the same kit. Same lines, wingfoil, fuse shape, etc in both renditions.

Should make the AMA/Vintage/Concours fellows very happy.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Have you thought about what the kit will include and the price?

xcead

jjpetro: for my kwik fly mk III the fuselage has 8 x 8 milimeters balsa sticks at each top side of the 5 mm balsa sides, and under the 10 mm top balsa coverage and the stab is glued under these sticks,
i can tell you that resists any manouver very well
of course you have to sand them to match the 6 mm rudder with them

sorry for my english, any doubt let me know

jjpetro

Yes, I have given it some thought, thanks for asking. Obviously, the full kit won't include the engine, radio, wheels, clevises, linkage, etc. It will include everything made of wood that you'd expect including: laser cut parts, canopy, landing gear, dowels, hardwood blocks, ply, balsa, drawings, instructions, etc. It will have around the same content as the Primus/Taurus I currently kit.

As for price, the Taurus/Primus sells for $165 (includes shipping). I believe the Dyna Fli (as I will probably call it, any suggestions? Gotta watch the name game!!) will come in less. It is not as large as the Taurus and has fewer parts. I have to get parts laser cut, assemble a kit....count the cost....before being certain. Right now I'm guessing $150-$165 (the price includes shipping). We can certainly hope it will come in less, can't we?

I'm sure you are probably aware of this being the avid Kwik Fli fan that you are (GREAT build article a few months ago!!), but, perhaps others reading this are not aware. Phil Kraft did not call this plane the Kwik Fli because it is fast or maneuverable. It is because it is Kwik to build and Fli. This helps a small time, classic pattern plane kitter, such as myself, keep the kit prices fairly reasonable for a specialty plane.

Again, thanks for asking.

jjpetro

Thanks Torino, was that inlcuded in the kit? If so, which kit manufacturer is it? It is not denoted on the original plans.

EXCAP232

My Feedback: (12)

Just looked up the plans from the Graupner kit. It shows the stab just inserted through the fuselage. I built both the Graupner and Top Flite kits. The Graupner was far superior. However with both I added a piece of 1/8" sheet under the stab and added triangular stock under the stab and then carved that to a fillet shape.

xcead

jjpetro ;
no , the plane did not came from a kit, but from plans bought in a hobby shop here in argentina, is the original plan desinged by phil kraft,
in the pics attached if you look in detail you can see the stab and the sticks above it.

yes yes i know, .....in a terrible buildiing mistake the rudder and the fuselage size dont match!!!!! the fuselage is much wider , ouch..dont kill me....ajajjajajja

hope this helps
again sorry for the english

jjpetro

Nice looking plane Torino!! I must admit, that's the first model airplane I've seen with a "Honda" sticker on it! How long ago did you build it?

xcead

jaja , thanks, well the building process started in january 2004, but the plane was finished in november 2004 because university takes me a lot of time, the maiden flight was in january 05 and still flying very well indeed!!!!
it has a super tigre 45 gs, apc 11 x 6

the honda sticker....well just to decorate the plane
thanks !!!!

jjpetro

EXCAP232,

Thanks for taking the trouble of looking up the Graupner plans for me. Sounds like all the kitters and the original designer only had a slot. I think I will provide the same and include an optional lite ply doubler inside the fuse sides and also include triangular stock for fillets. That will let the modeler choose for the original vein or to modify to his own liking.

Thanks again,

8178

My Feedback: (17)

When will you be shipping Kwik Fli III kits?

xcead

jjpetro: could you show us some pics of the kwik fly III prototipe you re gonna sell?

just for curiosity, and compare ir with mine

jjpetro

Will probably have kits ready by December/January.

jjpetro

Torino, I don't have the prototype ready yet. I'll post it when completed

Thanks,

RCDENT

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry to be so long in responding. I was a Phil Kraft admirer back in the days (still am) and had several Kwik Fli's II and III. Then we covered them with old fashion silk and dope which is what the plane was designed for. Usually stab and rudder fillets were done with an epoxy fillet material which really locked the stab in place. After a crash, you usually still had a totally intact tail section! Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add some internal balsa doublers for the more modern film covering techniques without a fillet. Very excited about your kit. Do you have a website? Good luck. I'm going to start shopping for an NOS Enya .60 III!

jjpetro

RCDENT,
I am close to finishing the laser cut files for the first pre-production planes. Will send them out shortly. I won't make my self-imposed Christmas deadline but should be ready in January. I and another Kwik Fli modeller will build a couple of kits to check dimensions, construction, etc.

You asked for my web-site, it is www.homeandhobbysolutions.com.

Thanks

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Keep in mind that the original was flown in an era when the average high performance .60 sized engine were much less powerful than many of today's .46's.

I would not hesitate to add doublers to the fuselage in that area, a solid balsa bed and even some triangle stock. Besides, many old drawings have survived that were just project sketches and which do not reflect the actual construction techniques that were used for the real models of the day. If common sense says it is inadequate, chances are it is.

jjpetro

Thanks Ed,
Your points are well taken, I plan to offer reinforcement in critical areas.

xcead

jj petro, have an idea that my kwik fly mk III has a Super Tigre .45, apc 11 x 6

one word: BALLISTIC

jjpetro

Several engine sizes have been mentioned in this post. As most of you know Phil Kraft designed the Kwik Fli III for an Enya .61. Compared to most of todays .61's it is a short shaft engine and actually is dimensioned the same as most .45's, .46's and .51's. I know of several modelers who have built the Kwik Fli with a K&B .61. The cowling has to be lengthened by .25-.375 inches to allow for its longer shaft. I will be allowing for this in my kit should anyone want to install a big .61.

Paternguy

My Feedback: (1)

What about a Kraft 61 (RJL)?

8178

My Feedback: (17)

The other thing that Phil liked to do was mount the engine with an aluminum plate that attached to the back of the engine. I’m not sure if he drilled the back of the Enya 60 case to mount it or not but there were available tabs in the case. The plate was around 1/8” thick and the Jenson kits came with the plate. This mounting system results in the Kwik Fli III firewall being very far forward. Only about 3 ½” on the original Kwik Fli III design.

When I built my Howard Engineering Kwik Fli III taper wing 30 years ago set the firewall at 4” because I was using a Kraft/Hays mount and a Webra Blackhead. I also was using a firewall mount Rom-Air retract unit and I didn’t want to cut away much of the wing for the wheel to clear when it was retracted. When I started working on the kit again last year I was able to stuff an Irvine 61 in the space by counter sinking the engine back plate bolts into the face of the Karft/Hays mount and using a Goldberg spinner. On my new Cold Duck I set the fire wall at 4 1/4 “ and that space works will with a Dave Brown mount and modern engines but I had to mount the nose gear on the front of the firewall.

You all are going to think this is nuts but if you plan on building a Kwik Fli III for SPA http://www.seniorpattern.com/ competition and you want to be completive a modern 46 or 61 2S will NOT be enough power for the SPA pattern routine. All of the top SPA flyers use OS 91 4Ss and you will need to set the firewall back to about 4 ¾” for the 91 fit. With the firewall at 4 ¾” you almost need to build a sub member in front of the firewall to mount the nose gear. If you wanted retracts (SPA does not allow you to retract them in competition) you would need to build a belly mount system to get the gear leg far enough forward.

Howard Engineering Kwik Fli III taper wing build:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2434444/tm.htm

Cold Duck build:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3092876/tm.htm