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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/22/2005 9:12 PM   
DMyer


 

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From: Potomac, MD, USA
Status: offline 		This thread is reasons 1-10 to find something better to do... this hobby is supposed to be fun.. I feel sorry for those in a club situation where fun is no longer possible.



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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/22/2005 11:51 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Egos, jealousy, misunderstanding, stubborness, revenge, control, personality conflicts, it's all there. A GOOD sign that you just had a BAD contest is when ALL the losers walk away angry. Was that the case here, or were the angry losers just the guys in power ?


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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 3:44 AM   
HighPlains


 

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quote:

Keep it Civil!!!

No personal attacks, or I will lock this down.

I just edited my last post.


Please Dave, give me a hint of the kind of personal attack I have to make in order to close down (and even remove) this entire thread. What a waste of time! I even object to the subject line. I have raced in the past at Sacramento, I was not banned; therefore the best have not been banned in Sacramento.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 4:30 AM   
daven



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Status: offline 		Good try Bob, you'll have to do better.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 7:16 AM   
garys


 

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Status: offline 		Come on Dave, you mean Bob incorrectly claiming to be the best isn't enough to get this thread closed?

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 7:27 AM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: offline 		Gary,

You did notice that it was Sacramento? Wasn't that big of claim.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 8:19 AM   
garys


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah, but I raced in Sacramento as well, one time. Well, for a couple heats, the borrowed airplane I as flying had issues with keeping the firewall in place, so I left early...lol

Seriously, I think this thread has outlived it's usefulness, and I really doubt any resolution is going to come from it.

GS


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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 8:32 AM   
daven



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Status: offline 		Probably so, but were over 2000 views so far, someone is obviously interested.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 10:50 AM   
Tommy_Gun



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Status: offline 		I think the number of views is due to the NASCAR syndrome kinda thing.

They're all just waiting for the wreck.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 8:39 PM   
airnutguy


 

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From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Mr. Skids,

I really think you have a future in politics!! What a SPIN DOCTOR!! I think you could sell Katrina Victims beach front Condo's

If the SAM board spend $30,000 defending their positions because they illegally terminated 3 persons memberships, they should be removed for incompetence!!

My action against the SAM board was not a suit I never got to sue the board nor the club. The legal system in these types of cases is quite weak. If I had deep pockets I could sue and get some relief from this problem, but as the victim, I have to spend my money to bring these guys to justice. There is no !QUOT!public!QUOT! help for folks that find themselves oppressed by these kind of tyrants. Just the same the solution sought by the SAM board was called a !QUOT!Summary Judgment!QUOT!. That means that the SAM board lawyer spun the story that some how the violation of these members rights were not of any concern of the Court and that the court should ignore any further inquiry into the matter. Again, I could press the issue, but I would have to spend my money to resolve this issue.

I to really think that this is a waste of time and effort, because short of someone putting a gun to their head, the guys in power, will never come to a realization that there are people that see things differently and have a constitutional right to express their views.

Oh yeah, Mr. Shids, the ones that disrupted the meetings were the few minority board supporters that did not want their actions brought out in the light, not the persons that had their homes or persons threatened.

Those that are interested in fair and equitable representation are just going to have to wait until the rest of the folks see the light for themselves.

As far as my credentials and support of the hobby, here is the short list for anyone that may be jaded by Mr.Skids.

I have been racing at SAM since the very first race in 1992, when the Arizona guys handed us our hats. I did not get discouraged but made the choice to learn the game better.

After 10 years of dominating the SWRA gold class, the guys now making all the noise, chose to change the rules instead of learning what it took to compete. It's that simple, if you can't beat them, change the rules and ban them!

I had a team of pilots at the last warbird race we attended and every one of the 3 of us were shot from the sky. We have signed testimony of that fact from a person that witnessed these acts. The investigator report mentioned was never made public and the guy performing it was a drinking buddy of one of the offending board members. The only reason this investigation was done in the first place was because the AMA demanded it and it had to be completed or the flying sight would be shut down for good. Why the AMA let these guys off the hook will go down as one of the great mysteries of 2005

It is true I own Airborne Hobbies, I compete against R/C Country in a free and fair manner, if that is not true from their perspective, there is not much I can say about that. I treat all of my customers with respect and honor.

As far as why I don't carry the P-51 ARF you mentioned is quite simple. We sold what we had 2 years ago and it is not made available to my store any longer. Global has some sort of exclusive sweat heart deal with them and they WILL NOT sell them to us. I don't know if that could be considered a problem under anti-trust laws but I really don't care.

More folks have left the SAM sight due to the constant racing than I care to count. The fact that there are less than half the number of members left today when compared to 2 years ago tells the story loud and clear. The SAM club use to have 330 members, today it is less than 150. I may be wrong on the exact number because the board will not make a list of members public.

By the way, not making the membership list public information is illegal under California State law.

As far as supporting local clubs, my store donated over $6,000 in raffle prizes and discounts to the Woodland, Mather and Red Barons
clubs over the past year. If your club will not talk to us then I guess that is your clubs problem.

To all reading, if you ever find yourself asking questions that you dare not ask here, please feel free to contact me direct. I am always willing to talk to my fellow modelers and have nothing to hide.

To those who find this sort of information a bore, well I can only say I am sorry if you find this troublesome and hope we I have not offended any of you. I wish only to build, fly and have fun. As a past board member of the SAM club, I only hope that someday this club will once again be a fun and fair place.

I have a store to run, customers to help and planes to build and fly, so I have nothing further to add. If anyone needs to talk call us or find us on the web www.airbornehobbies.net

< Message edited by airnutguy -- 11/23/2005 8:45 PM >

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 8:41 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		I get a kick out of the guys who want to shut this down, isn't that called the BARNEY FIFE SYNDROME?


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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 9:44 PM   
John Casey


 

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From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Ok guys tone it down... The "bad guys" would love to have the free flow of information shutdown.

The conclusion that the "angry guys in power" are really the losers here is very accurate.

Back to pylon stuff...

The club has a standing rule "thats's been on the books" for some time now, that after every Race.

"the flying site must be returned back to a presentable condiotion and any pylons etc. taken down."

Its been quite a while after the kahuna Classic and the pylons are still up.

There are only 25 racing pilots in a club of 186.
Why are the rest of us forced to endure the constant race practice?

There is a nice photo on the clubs website of a fairly decent pylon race pilot holding his
very nice Waco biplane in a red and white color scheme.

This aircraft was needlessly lost as the pylon race pilot wiped it out hitting a pylon. (justice dispensed)

If he hit the pylon so will others.
The conclusion "the rules are meant for some but not others is also correct."

Bronze being the beginners class.? the 13.5 lb A1D skyraider /ys 91 flaps,retracts
dive brakes, panel lines, a fiberglassed airframe, and kicked the butts
of who were flying arfs weighing in at what 7-8pounds. Some aircraft are"flown" not aimed.
The Rhino as it was called,aquired fame in the racing circles beyound anything the
critics will ever accomplish.

They changed the racing breakout times to exclud this plane.... we adapted ,overcame, and still won first place.
The fun days with Pacini and the arizona boys are over because of petty hatred of the successfull.



< Message edited by John Casey -- 11/23/2005 9:45 PM >

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 9:50 PM   
Jimmy Skids



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Status: offline 		airNUTguy,

In response to your personal attack against me, Please re-read my post. Your comments with regards to Katrina victims just shows how childish and insensitive you are. The truth is that the club has spent more than $30,000 in law suits and RUNWAY repairs. If the board truely terminated individuals illegally then the courts would of said so. I'm sorry that your judgement has become so clouded that you are no longer able to be a member of SAM.

The club is a fun and fair place for the remaining members, spin or no spin!

Spin Master Skids.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 9:55 PM   
John Casey


 

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Standing rule of the SAM club Unanimously adopted by the board of directors of SAM Dec 7 2000.(before all the fighting)

"Sacramento Area modelers is a not for profit organizationand as such the board of directors has a responsibility to prevent even the perception that the club is being used for the profit oany individual or business.


There are two major RC shops in town RC country and Airborne Hobbies(jeff weiss's Shop)

Guess whos getting all the clubs monies in violation of the clubs rules???

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 9:57 PM   
BasinBum



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

If the board truely terminated individuals illegally then the courts would of said so.


Not true, small claims courts do not rule on such matters and can only make monetary judgments.

You must admit you keep trying to "spin" it that way.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 9:59 PM   
John Casey


 

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Status: offline 		If you read the newletters and visit the website you will see a $35000 botched
runway repair and about $3000 per case per suite.

Someone did muddy the waters

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/23/2005 11:52 PM   
airnutguy


 

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Status: offline 		Mr. Skids,

The courts never were allowed to hear the testimony or eveidence on the case. The SAM club short circuited that with the summary judgment. The only judge that took the time to hear the facts made the right choice. To bad our legal system can be manipulated for the wrong reasons.

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/24/2005 1:03 AM   
Jimmy Skids



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Status: offline 		Mr. airNUTguy,
The was over turned on appeal for not having jurisdiction over the matter. Let it go and move on already! Hasn't your ego cost you enough business already?

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/24/2005 1:45 AM   
garys


 

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Status: offline 		This thread reminds me a traffic accident on the side of a freeway that everybody has to slow down and watch.

I don't know anybody on either side of this arguement, and in my opinion both sides seem to have some issues with how they have handled this ordeal.

Other than the fact that a couple of the people that have been banned flew in some warbird races, what does this discussion have to do with pylon racing? Did the lawsuits, ect, have to do specifically with racing? These are club/board/member issues, not racing issues.

If this means I suffer from "Barney Fife Syndrome", which I've never heard of, so be it. I'm entitled to my opinions as much as anybody else.

Quite frankly, the everyday bystander that doesn't read the whole thread will attribute all this he said, she said crap to racing, and immediately lose interest in even trying to get involved in racing. If one person were to decide against trying out racing because of this political BS, it's defeated the primary purpose of even having forums to support this hobby.

GS

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/24/2005 2:38 AM   
Tommy_Gun



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Status: offline 		Well I KNOW I have had plenty of fun racing in the SAM Warbird Races,
and I plan to continue doing so as long as they continue to hold them.

< Message edited by FlinVR -- 11/24/2005 2:42 AM >

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/24/2005 3:04 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		With regards to this thread, all you gotta do then[if you don't like it] is look past it, and don't click on it. You are the one in control of how you want to spend your time, just don't try to decide how others should spend their time looking at threads that interest them.

Is this thread relevant to this forum? In a way. This kind of stuff has happened in other racing clubs before, maybe not to this degree. I have seen silly feuds develope in other forms of AMA competition also. Having rules that are subject to opinion are dangerous in any category of sports. The events that have the fewest problems have the fewest rules, and what rules they DO have are well defined and indisputable. The higher the stakes, the more potential for out comes like this also, but regardless of the prize, what could be more valuable to an individual than the respect of his competitors, whether in victory or defeat?

< Message edited by combatpigg -- 11/24/2005 3:24 AM >


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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/24/2005 3:07 AM   
tukkus


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: garys


Other than the fact that a couple of the people that have been banned flew in some warbird races, what does this discussion have to do with pylon racing? Did the lawsuits, ect, have to do specifically with racing? These are club/board/member issues, not racing issues.

Quite frankly, the everyday bystander that doesn't read the whole thread will attribute all this he said, she said crap to racing, and immediately lose interest in even trying to get involved in racing. If one person were to decide against trying out racing because of this political BS, it's defeated the primary purpose of even having forums to support this hobby.

GS


i'm assuming that since the original poster believes this all started because he and some others were dominating the pylon races that it belongs in the pylon racing forum. I'd also have to assume that since he races, that this is the forum he is used to going to.

if the everyday bystander doesn't want to get involved with racing because of this thread, then they should just sit on their hands for the rest of their lives because there is good and bad in all aspects of life. Forums like RCU isn't just about all the good stuff, it's about information, and leaving the bad out isn't going to solve any problems.

< Message edited by tukkus -- 11/24/2005 3:09 AM >

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RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento - 11/24/2005 4:09 AM   
daven



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Status: offline 		I think this has run its course. I think its time to shut her down. If anyone has any constructive info to post, I'll reopen it, just PM me.

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