Best racers banned in Sacramento

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John Casey -> Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/27/2005 9:24 PM)
For those of you that attended The sacramento Big kahuna Classic... The best pylon warbird race pilots were banned from attending the race. SAM Bronze race champion John Casey... "The Rhino driver" and Sam Gold race Champion Jeff Weiss If they don't like you they just shoot you down.... politics really sucks

hattend -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/27/2005 10:55 PM)
What did they do? Don

TIA -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/28/2005 12:07 AM)
Banned or disqualified? I would think banned would be from being caught cheating too many times.... What happened? Maybe a misunderstanding?

crashdude -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/30/2005 2:08 AM)
Banned? Or maybe EXPELLED from the SAM club for unsportsmanlike conduct. I think Expelled is a fact.

luv to race -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/31/2005 2:41 PM)
There is absolutely NO room for un-sports-man-like conduct in our hobby. smoke

hattend -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/31/2005 5:18 PM)
I guess you had to be there. Again...What did they do? Don

TIA -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (10/31/2005 6:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Casey For those of you that attended The sacramento Big kahuna Classic... The best pylon warbird race pilots were banned from attending the race. SAM Bronze race champion John Casey... "The Rhino driver" and Sam Gold race Champion Jeff Weiss If they don't like you they just shoot you down.... politics really sucks So John, Was this a hook or were you just blowing off some steam publicly?

John Casey -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/5/2005 1:22 AM)
If the club gangleaders can't beat you voting, can't build better than you, fly better that you, they just come up with a Bs reason and write up a termination letter. I was terminated after calling for the dismissal of the board, because they stole $1300 of the clubs money to indemify themselvesjust prior to terminating my membership along with a founding father of the club and Jeff weiss a hobby shop owner. What should have happened was "A VOTE" by the membership.

Bill Vargas -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/5/2005 7:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Casey If the club gangleaders can't beat you voting, can't build better than you, fly better that you, they just come up with a Bs reason and write up a termination letter. I was terminated after calling for the dismissal of the board, because they stole $1300 of the clubs money to indemify themselvesjust prior to terminating my membership along with a founding father of the club and Jeff weiss a hobby shop owner. What should have happened was "A VOTE" by the membership. What is their reason for this $1300.00 that they compensated themselves for? Was it something for the field? BV

Tony Pacini -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/8/2005 4:42 AM)
Our Arizona group ran into some similar situations at that club. One year we showed up with Nelson-powered NE-1s (warbird/recon version of the Piper Cub), trophied in Gold, and were promptly told that they wouldn't be allowed the following year ("they're not warbirds"). We showed up the next year with T-34s. Definitely a warbird, right? Using YS .91s and fixed-geared aircraft we again took some of the top trophy spots even though most of them were flying 1.20-powered birds with retracts. We were later notified that the T-34s, too, had been outlawed. Their definition of a warbird has evolved to "must have left the factory in mass numbers armed with guns or capable of dropping bombs" or something to that effect. In essence anything with a "T" designation (trainers) would no longer be allowed. The next year they announced that the engines had to be able to idle below a certain RPM figure for so many seconds before being allowed to take off. Most of us showed up with Mustangs (kind of tough to outlaw them in a warbird race) but a few of us were told that "technically" our "Miss Ashley II" models didn't fit the defitinition of the warbird rule. Let's forget that this is a warbird race that is supposed to be patterned after the full-scale races in Reno, and that MAII was developed specifically for that class of racing. They let us fly them, but only after letting us know that yes, again, we were on the verge of breaking the rules. It became painfully obvious that their new rules seemed to be aimed at us and because they couldn't beat us they decided to outlaw our equipment. We haven't been back in a couple of years, either.

BasinBum -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/8/2005 6:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Casey If the club gangleaders can't beat you voting, can't build better than you, fly better that you, they just come up with a Bs reason and write up a termination letter. I was terminated after calling for the dismissal of the board, because they stole $1300 of the clubs money to indemify themselvesjust prior to terminating my membership along with a founding father of the club and Jeff weiss a hobby shop owner. What should have happened was "A VOTE" by the membership. I'm sure there is another side to this story, your's has a bunch of holes in it.

daven -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/8/2005 6:39 AM)
I have been keeping a pretty good eye on this thread, as I am concerend about it blowing up into personal attacks. Up to this point, it has been VERY civil. If everyone wants to keep this thing up, lets keep it that way. Personally, I'm curious as to what happened.

Jim Wolfe -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/8/2005 9:51 AM)
Hi guys ! I did a little Google searching, and came up with this. http://www.sacramento-rc-flyers.org/newsletter.html Start reading somewhere around the April/04 newsletter. Might help explain some of whats going on here. Jim

kf6gub -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 3:14 AM)
Surprise! Surprise! I used to be with Sacramento Area Modelers until I moved to Austin, Tx, a month or so ago. I've never read the newsletters before; I joined the club last November. They will make interesting reading for me. Nice part is I can put a face to several of the characters--but not that many. Still, interesting reading. thx Jim

HighPlains -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 4:03 AM)
quote: "technically" our "Miss Ashley II" models didn't fit the defitinition of the warbird rule. I believe that is true, the Miss Ashley was a H model Mustang fuselage built from scratch with a Lear wing and tail. So it really isn't a "warbird". Reno doesn't require warbirds, just pistons and props. I read the newsletters - interesting, but a lot of details left out/vague. quote: $1300 of the clubs money to indemify themselvesjust This was no doubt to protect the assets of the board members, since there were so many people (ex-members (people thrown out of the club)) suing the club. Prudent. The club meetings sounded like fun. Being thown out by security guards from the people that let the club use the room three meetings in a row must be some kind of record. Having the flying site unavailable for a month (closed by the AMA?) because of people shooting people down with radios. Mature behavor. It looks like the club membership has dropped by about 30 members. Was it worth it?

Bill Vargas -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 4:23 AM)
Certianly a bummer for those that got shot down and I kinda doubt we'll ever know what really happened. BV

Tony Pacini -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 4:28 AM)
Yes, the MAII wasn't a warbird but she was built for and did race at Reno. The SAM warbird racing rules were adopted from the SWRA event, and the SWRA rules allowed models of purpose-built aircraft for closed course racing. SAM just started removing the rules they didn't like, and evidently this might have been one of them. It's absolutely their right to do so, but the original event was meant to capture the spirit and excitement of Reno-style unlimited racing. I can't imagine how allowing aircraft like the MAII, Tsunami, Pond Racer, etc. could possibly hurt a warbird racing event. It's seems like they're more concerned with being able to legislate themselves into the trophy positions than they are with the actual event itself.

HighPlains -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 4:44 AM)
Well that's known as "home towning". Interesting that the three airplanes mentioned all came to tragic endings.

John Casey -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 10:14 PM)
"This was no doubt to protect the assets of the board members, since there were so many people (ex-members (people thrown out of the club)) suing the club. Prudent. They went and purchased (AHEAD OF TIME) the insurance as to monetarily insulate themselves "PRIOR... to wrongfully terminating several members." They knew what they were doing.. the club had not been sued as of yet but they knew once they started terminating people they would be. Its cost the club over $6000 bucks so far.

BasinBum -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/9/2005 10:19 PM)
I don't blame them. It looks like Weiss only recieved two votes last time he ran for office. If the mebership disagrees with the board they can easily replace them. If things got that bad and they knew what was coming than being prepared was prudent behavior. To work as a volunteer for a club and then get sued over it and have to pay out of pocket would be infuriating to me. To plan ahead and protect the board is in the best interest of the club otherwise nobody would run for office in the future.

Liberator -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/10/2005 3:20 AM)
What is it about this sport that brings this type of behavior forward? I was listening to my local club talk about a guy that REFUSED to allow his radio to be impounded. When they told him he had no choice, he threw a tantrum and acted like a 2 year old. I guess I will never understand why talking things out is a bad idea. Bringing dirty laundry here is just goofy.

kf6gub -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/10/2005 6:31 AM)
Although I was a member of SAM (Sacto Area Modelers), it was for a relatively short time: from November '94 through September '95. All that stuff went down apparently before my tenure with the club. The current president, a past president, and several of the current board members were particularly helpful in getting me started with flying. My experience with SAM was one of a positive nature because of present and past board members. None of them alluded to the turmoil of months ago--maybe out of embarrassment for the club or maybe because attention to that kind of conflict is not in the best interests of the club. Jim

Jimmy Skids -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/10/2005 10:09 PM)
As a 6+ year member of the club in mention I would like to stick my neck out and respond to two of the paths that this thread has taken. First in response to T-pacini: I for one miss the competition and fellowship that you and the rest of the Arizona boyz brought to the races. BUT, you are wrong when you feel that the rules were changed because of you guys. The Cubs and T-34's (neither a War-bird in my opinion) didn't meet the spirit of the rules when it comes to WAR-BIRD racing, and the idle rule was put in place in the interest of safety. It's too bad that you feel as you do and the presence of the Arizona gang at the races is missed. Secondly, in response to John Casey's message: Both John Casey and Jeff Weiss were not !QUOT!banned from attending the race!QUOT!, They have both been expelled from the Sacramento Area Modelers and as such are not allowed to fly at the site. John Casey has sued 3 times in an effort to be reinstated and has lost each time. It is really unfortunate that such a sad state of affairs has tarnished this wonderful hobby/sport. Lastly on less of a professional note, If John Casey is such a great pilot !QUOT!The best pylon war-bird race pilots were banned from attending the race!QUOT!, how is it that he never moved up from the !QUOT!beginner!QUOT! class? In closing I would like to say that since joining the Sacramento Area Modelers in 1999, I have found that the majority of the members are a fantastic bunch of guys[:D]. In fact it was more the fellowship of the membership that encouraged me to stay in this hobby more than anything else. As with anything else in life there is always a second side to the story. Good Flying to all, Jimmy Skids

Bill Vargas -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/11/2005 3:46 AM)
Skids wrote>>>"The Cubs and T-34's (neither a War-bird in my opinion) didn't meet the spirit of the rules when it comes to WAR-BIRD racing" From the SWRA Rules,,, Civilian aircraft that were not designed for, but were used by the military, will be allowed only if documented and presented in the military paint schemes and markings. BV[:D]

airnutguy -> RE: Best racers banned in Sacramento (11/14/2005 11:01 PM)
I have stayed out of this discusion but the truth seems to be missing. John Casey asked for the Presidents resignation due to illegal activity as defined by the State of Californis Corporation Bylaws. The members have the right to remove any board member at will at any time. John then had his membership terminated. A founding members rejoined the club to help try to get things set properly. He was terminated and his home and wife were threatened. I became involved in an attempt to provide the leadership with a solid understanding as to there failings under the California Corporation code but had my membership terminated. My action were in the interst of getting the THRUTH known by all members. After providing the AMA with first hand documentation as to the inappropriate acts of some members, I was served a termination letter that said "Your continuted participation in the SAM club was no longer desireable" . The last warbird race that I flew in ended with my aircraft and the 2 other members of my team all being "Shot Down" by a member of SAm. He was protected by the board and that is the real truth. Since that date I was told that could no longer enter the event or even pit for someone. But remeber that I was the victim here. The only thing I did wrong was to try to defend myself, my team mates and my business. AND also I am a Hobby Shop owner, does this kind of activity help there club? If you really want to talk FACTS just call me (916) 332-4661 Jeff Weiss[X(]

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