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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/4/2012 5:27 AM   
Canuck1



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Status: offline 		I used large pieces for my wings so I did not have a seam. I also used lover all and dope.
I went with two aileron servos one in each bottom wing, and it worked fine.
I would imagine you could do actual cables and wires, that will just add to the set up time at the field.

Here are a couple of pics of what I am currently working on

Craig

Do you recognize the pup parts on the back wall

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/4/2012 5:29 AM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		Just did a rough guesstimate in my head ....36 FEET for the wings !


I used Sig stix-it and this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ceconitefabric2.php

The ceconite is 72 inches wide by the meter...

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/4/2012 8:58 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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ORIGINAL: valleyk
1/3 sopwith pup covering tips.I’m at a point in my life to cover this beast. Will one ten meter roll of solartex do it. Can I cover the wing in sections or does it have to be one piece top and bottom. Worried that the fabric seam ironed together will separate at rib joint when shrinking using the section method. Also still toying with the idea of pull pull cable ailerons but can’t figure out how to have a redundant system using two servos not fighting each other.

Boy,I wish i could talk ya into the Sig koverall and the Minwax poly. Im supprised Craig didnt try to talk ya into that. It sure switched me over-Permanately. Craig,Hows that Dr doin?? Stuka huh?Ziroli-Very cool plane. At my field, a guy has a 90-100 incher with the siren and all-Awesome piece! I will look and see if his cutters have it. There are a few. I also have a question for ya Craig. I made my own stitch tape and kept the spaceing a little closea little over 5/8 apart. I have seen guys use an inch,and i personally like it at where i have spaced it. Is a little over 5/8 to close.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/4/2012 9:09 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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ORIGINAL: Canuck1

Master, lol, you are making me laugh.
Not near that quality. Mustang has not budged. I am still debating the power plant, and did not want to part with the cost, but ended up spending more money on the DR1.
Nothing special on the building board at the moment. A Ziroli Stuka has always intrigued me, so that might be a future project. Eastern white paint scheme is the color I like.
Glad to hear you are back on the pup, wish I still had mine.
So many planes I would like to build, so little time.

Craig

YEA Master-That term is relative. To me you are. Its guys like you,Bob H,Foodstick,Pook,etc,and MANY others that make this hobby awesome. I have read your pup build for two years before i started. I have learned Much,as well as taught some. I look,as well as others,very forward to seeing you dig in.It was a sad day to see your pups demise.I will look int the Stuka for ya.Craig,have you heard from Pook? Is he still around doing ok?

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/4/2012 9:40 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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Status: offline 		Hey Craig, I want to do my pup in this scheme,but have yet to be able to identify it-could ya take a look-I have researched,and have come up empty- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5062dfEgtc0 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeAg6YDvEYw

< Message edited by rotorboy2.4gh -- 12/4/2012 10:33 AM >

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/9/2012 10:13 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canuck1

I used large pieces for my wings so I did not have a seam. I also used lover all and dope.
I went with two aileron servos one in each bottom wing, and it worked fine.
I would imagine you could do actual cables and wires, that will just add to the set up time at the field.

Here are a couple of pics of what I am currently working on

Craig

Do you recognize the pup parts on the back wall

Hey Craig,Did you get a chance to look at that video to see if you can identify that Pup?Frank.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/9/2012 4:33 PM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		Thanks for the link on those two videos, I had somehow missed those online.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/10/2012 1:00 AM   
Canuck1



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Status: offline 		I have no idea of the actual aircraft in the video.
Jim Ellis is the owner, maybe he is on the web somewhere and can identify the owner or some documentation of the real plane.

Craig.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/10/2012 7:34 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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Status: offline 		-Thanks Craig. I tried that with no response. I have researched the roundels-two white vertical rear fuse stripes-color-Everything! I cant imagine a non scale pup of that Magnitude.I would also like the Vickers gun sound as he did as well,BUT-more important would like to find the plane its self-Nice Plane! Foodstick or any one can help-It would be appreciated.Frank.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/29/2012 3:39 PM   
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Status: offline 		Canuck1,  I just started to biuld the 1/3 scale sopwith pup and I have been searhing all over the internet to find good pictures so when I get stumped I can check out other builders. An then I came across yours, WOW what a great job you are  doing building, and displaying your work.. I am retired from Ford Motor company with thirty two years servive and I have taken up R/C flying( flew the real ones all my life with my Dad but since his passing I can't afford it any more!!). Anyway I have the lower wings, the horizontal stab, and the upper center wing done. Couple of questions would be 1.are the 1/8 washers really needed on the upper wings? and is that 21/2 inch block up on the upper wings for the dihidryl( don't know if I got that spelling right). Your pictures are great and they have helped me alot, and I pit them in my favorites because I will be looking at them alot..Thanks for your work and sharing it with all of us beginners in the 1/3 scale field....

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/29/2012 4:59 PM   
Canuck1



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I am not sure which block you are referring to with regards to the dihedral?
I used the spacers on the top wing. They worked great and made it so much easier to remove the wings. If you build as for the plans, you should have no issues. The pup is a great airplane, still wish I had mine as it was a great flier.

Craig



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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/29/2012 8:11 PM   
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Status: offline 		Canuck1  Step 2 of the upper wing build say file out the bottom of the dole holes on the inside plywood rib.Then insert the wing inplace with plywood washer between the wing andcenter section and block up the last wing rib 21/2. They say the dowels should clear the holes. If they don't, file them out untill they do.Note The ribs will tend to sag back a little but this should not be of  concern, as the cable will keep the diehedral correct. That is what the instructions tell me to do. Was just trying to make it clear because some times these build instructions can be confusing!! Thanks for the rapid reply!!!                                                                    

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/30/2012 5:57 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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Status: offline 		I think what you are reffering to is the dihedral in the upper wing-you are correct that it has thatI just used the plans to go by as you can measure how high the wing tips are as my plans are actual size. AND YES,I had to take a little off my dowels or they would have protruded down below the rib surface on the underside. Hope this helps. I am still building mine as we speak. I have just made all my own rib stitch strips and applying them. I definately got my influence from Craig as well. I believe he has had that affect on many more people than he has realized. I dont want to confuse things,but i actually put brass tubes in my ribs and made them as long as possible to support for the dowels to go in to. You dont have to do that though. The flying wires will keep your dihedral correct. I had talked to Ron Bush from Balsa USA before he passed,and he spoke of the one main issue with the plane,and that was he suggested to make sure that if you can,use some kind of block and wing bolts to hold the lower wings on. Also to put the servos in the wings instead of bellcranks. He said there were way to many reports of the wings folding up. Im sure many people did NOT and still had success,but i attached mine! I think Craig is very busy on building other stuff right nowhe is a building machine-for sure! I will help when i can if you need,just not very many at the moment on this but you and I. I would like to see more. Frank.

< Message edited by rotorboy2.4gh -- 12/30/2012 6:18 AM >

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/30/2012 9:24 PM   
crashwilson


 

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Status: offline 		Frank, Thanks for the reply. Learning alot from you guys and really appreciate it. I know some times the questions I ask are as plain as day, but I just want to be sure. I would like to do the stiching on my plane but I think I am going to use the Solartex covering.(my wife has many lung problems and she can even smell thru walls.so using all the dope procedures would probably make me lose my happy home)!!!Can you put stiching on Sorartex?and were do you buy it? Also Craig what did you use to build up the tops of you ribs?And I suppose that your horizontal stab( those short ribs you put on the leading egde are your idea?) My print does not show that set-up.And I like the way you are doing your servo's in the lower wing. Do you think that being that close to the trailing edge that it will cause any trouble?Talk to you guy's later want to go see if the Packers are going to win today!!!!

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/31/2012 2:21 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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Status: offline 		Oh brother-Better than that-Minwax polycrilics-water based-not toxic-no smell=AWESOME!! Canuck1 turned me on to that and now is what he uses only.I used Sig Koveral. First,because it is not adhesive backed,you use Sig stix-it on the wood-let dry,then put the Koveral on then iron down. I like that best because of the underchamber needs not to pop loose. I would assume if you use the solortex, you can still use the stix-it on the underchamber to prevent it from coming up. AS for the stitch strips i made, you could put that on the anything,then follow up with a cover strip of your covering,then minwax again-then prime. I will post pics on how I made them.Quite simple. I laied an 18in by 18in piece of wax paper on a piece of wood. Then laied the same size of my covering over it. I just CAed around all the edges to keep downthe wax paper to. THEN,i measured about 5/8in apart(or whatever spacing you want) all the way down the board(top to bottom).I then took regular sewing thread and laid it along my spaced lines(CAed the ends down)So you then have a full board of spaced thread lines(Horizontal).I then took my Minwax polycrylics,and just brushed it on,as to(soak in the thread)as well as stick the thread down to the board,-Carefull not to move the thread. Wait for the first coat to dry(15 mins or so),then one more coat. After it dries,cut vertical strips however wide your ribs are,and PRESTO!!You have strips that simulate stitch that are now 18in long. I used stix-it LIGHTLY- to stick them down to my ribs-on top of your covering of coarse,-then,i took some paper tape,and made stripes slightly wider,and laied them over.-Followed up with some minwax poly-let dry-then primer!! Really cant tell between real and this.I will get pics up soon for ya. Ya ought to think about Sig Koverall20.00 bucks for 4ft by 5 yards straight from Sig!GREAT STUFF.Frank.OH YEA,You can use Latex paint for final-!-Wife will love ya for that!!Check out post 697-703-714-to give you an idea on the Sig Koverall and Minwax.-Craig also gave me the idea on the stab, to simulate a real airfoil-I used cap strip material built up, then sandThose guys are BRILLIANT!-Also if you dont want to make your own stitch,RCstichh- think they changed the name,but if you punch that in,you will find it. Makeing them is easy,and rewarding. As i said-i will get pics up fast!!

< Message edited by rotorboy2.4gh -- 12/31/2012 2:52 AM >

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 12/31/2012 6:33 PM   
Eindecker_pilot



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ORIGINAL: rotorboy2.4gh

I think what you are reffering to is the dihedral in the upper wing-you are correct that it has thatI just used the plans to go by as you can measure how high the wing tips are as my plans are actual size. AND YES,I had to take a little off my dowels or they would have protruded down below the rib surface on the underside. Hope this helps. I am still building mine as we speak. I have just made all my own rib stitch strips and applying them. I definately got my influence from Craig as well. I believe he has had that affect on many more people than he has realized. I dont want to confuse things,but i actually put brass tubes in my ribs and made them as long as possible to support for the dowels to go in to. You dont have to do that though. The flying wires will keep your dihedral correct. I had talked to Ron Bush from Balsa USA before he passed,and he spoke of the one main issue with the plane,and that was he suggested to make sure that if you can,use some kind of block and wing bolts to hold the lower wings on. Also to put the servos in the wings instead of bellcranks. He said there were way to many reports of the wings folding up. Im sure many people did NOT and still had success,but i attached mine! I think Craig is very busy on building other stuff right nowhe is a building machine-for sure! I will help when i can if you need,just not very many at the moment on this but you and I. I would like to see more. Frank.


In regards to the comment about the lower wings needed additional attachment blocks, I'd have to agree. The dowels on the lower wings are very short, not more than an inch I think. So if over time one has any flying wire stretch (& you will), plus a high-G manuever (depedent on flying style), this could pull the dowels out of the holes in the fuselage sides. I think that's the failure mode that Ron was describing.

I think if Balsa USA simply modified the design to include longer dowels on the lower wings, this would have prevented the issues. Having said that, it's not like they all fail, in fact far from it. Just a few incidents though is too many. I flew mine in the stock condition & never had any trouble but I don't do a lot of high-G stuff. If I had to do mine over again, I'd lengthen the dowels on the lower wings just as added insurance. I didn't hear about this potential failure mode until after I built my Pup, so when I realized the risk, I added a cross wire that connects the two lower wings together under the fuselage & prevents them from ever pulling out of the dowel holes. It was very simple to do. The cross wire simply attaches to blocks in the root ribs of the lower wings.

-Greg


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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 12:02 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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Status: offline 		GregYea,I was lucky to be able to talk to Ron when i did. My cowl had large tool marks,in which they sent me a new one but he brought up the subject.I had already built my wings,so what i did was put a block behind each dowel hole. THEN,just on the side of each hole-i put two more blocks-then aligned with those, i put two blocks opposite those on the inside of the ribs,and just used nylon wing bolts. Just like you,if i had to do it again,not only would i have made the dowels another two inches longer,but would have also done the block for them to go in. Then i really doubt that any bolts would be needed at all. Many right ways to do it im sure. -Tonight i will put some pics up of my self made rib stitch strips.Frank. You still flyin yours Greg?

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 12:06 AM   
Eindecker_pilot



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Status: offline 		Oh yes my pup's still flying high! Next year will be her sixth flying season.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 12:12 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

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Status: offline 		Awesome! What do you have for power?




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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 12:38 AM   
crashwilson


 

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Status: offline 		I like the idea of the koveral and Minwax!But you still have to paint it.And that requires spray painting I presume!Can't wait to see how you made that stiching,Also is pook still around? I read his reply on the landing gear and I wanted some more info on them.The pictures he posted were real nice and I would like to try and come out with something like that on mine. My Pup is coming along at a good pace,but everytime I read you guys comments I want to incorperate them on mine.I have a brand new Zenoah G62 still in the box and somtimes I think I hear it tring to start up!!!! Can't wait till that Day.

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 2:01 AM   
mothy1946


 

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Status: offline 		Hello everyone,

I have a !/3 BUSA Pup as well which I have built over the passed 2 1/2 years . A bit slow but I've had other builds going on at the same time. My model is scaled on a flying full size replica ( original flew in 1916 as a trainer in the UK) that is currently in the RAAF museum at Point Cook, Australia. This is interesting as the colour scheme ( as was the original ) is all white with the large red white and blue roundels on wings and fuselage and a red band around the fuselage just behind the cockpit with a large white emu ( denoting an Austalian pilot) on the red background.
I was able to visit the museum and take a lot of close up photos to get the detail correct for the model.
For what it is worth, here are a couple of ways I dealt with some of the issues that I've noted in the forum. I simulated the wing stitching by carefully placing thin bands of white glue across the ribs at the correct interval . When the covering goes over them the end result looks the same as stitching. The wing tapes on the original Pup were just torn strips of linen with raggardy edges and doped on This method was used up until the early 1920's I'm told but looks untidy. Luckily the replica I'm scaling has the saw tooth pinking edge tapes and I was able to get Mick Reeves to supply these already cut even down to the scale number of serrations per inch that is correct for 1/3 scale. He provides these in solartex and in the standard Pup olive drab and linen colors but will cut them in ( as in my case ) other solartex colours if asked.
The model is covered with solartex which I've used for years and found to be both rugged and easy to work but because of the undercambering of the wings I did use Sig stixit as well to get the extra grip.
Solaretx while a fuel proof and finished surface as applied, does get dirty easily because of the weave and is hard to clean so I painted the covered model with automotive 2 pack as well . Just enough cover to provide an easier to clean sealing surface without being too thick which would result in loss of the fabric weave appearance. I've used a lot of other Mick Reeves accessories for detailing including his wire bracing, wheels dash instruments etc. Mick is a stickler for getting detail correct and this is reflected in the quality of his accessories but also service and prices as well
I was also worried about the short locating dowels for the lower wings and over came this by epoxying 3 inch ( approx ) lengths of brass rod over the rear wooden dowels as supplied and then epoxying a brass tube ( next size up ) across the fuselage from side to side into the existing holes that the original dowels would have located in . When the wing is attached this results effectively in the rear dowels almost meeting in the middle and the friction ( despite some silicone lubricant) of brass tube within tibe makes it very unlikely that the wing will pull out.
I've opted for a Zenoah 80 twin in mine and this is grossly overpowered but the twin vibrates less and the model flies well at about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle.

The main reasons for using this motor however was to eliminate the need for ignition batteries etc just to simplify things ( magneto ignition but still with a transmitter ignition cutodff fitted) but more particularly as a short nose moment aircraft the extra weight up front of this heavier power plant meant that I didn't have to add any lead to the firewall to balance. The firewall did need reinforcing though to take the extra weight. I kept checking the C of G as I went along and placed all the heavy bits such as flight batteries etc so that the C of G came out spot on with out extra ballast.

In Australia models over 7 kg have to be inspected by a heavy model inspector and certifed to fly. The process involes a static inspection for structural integrity as well as a sign off on the first flight for both the model and the pilot. This is for insurance purposes and has to be renewed 3 yearly or if any changes are made to the model in the meanwhile such as an engine / radio change of repairs. I'll be organising this in the next few weeks and hopefully the model will have it's first flight at that time. However having flown a friend's 1/3 BUSA Pup with the same motor and set up I don't expect this to be a big problem. They are a very slow and docile flyer that is airborn in 20 feet but they don't like cross wind landings even in a gentle breeze. With the large diameter ( 10 inch ) narrow tyre wheels unless the tyres are well secured in the rims this results in the tyre separating from the rim more often than not and with the rigid undercarriage as supplied in heavy gauge wire it puts a lot of strain on the U/C. I had a friend make a bungee cord sprung Scale u/c as per the original which looks like it will absorb these landing stresses better. Time will tell.

Cheers,

Tim

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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 2:43 AM   
valleyk


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Tim

Thanks for sharing us your advice and building techniques. I too am finishing up a 1/3 busa pup and maybe following a parallel path except I chose to install a DA 100 twin. I just finished a book entitled, No Parachute, a fascinating diary of a WW1 British pilot flying pups. The diary mentions the pup having a brownish mud like color so I think I will go with that. Also I was curious, have you ever been to the museum in New Zealand that was recently built displaying WW1 aircraft.




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RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 4:30 AM   
mothy1946


 

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Status: offline 		No Valleyk.
Haven't neen to the NZ museums but that is a plan for 2013. New Zealand, for such a small country ( population wise it is about the same size as Sydney) is renowned for it's historical aircraft and restoration industry. The biannial airshow at Wanaka ( South Island ) is very special and is said to rival the best in other parts of the world. It is held at Easter and the next 3 day event is in 2014. I've also been watching via the internet the rebuild of a De Havilland Mosquito in NZ and an elderly friend of mine ( 92) who flew Lancasters with 617 squadron RAF ( Dambusters WW2) recently visited NZ and went all over a Lancaster that has just been restored with great love and care on the North Island just outside of Auckland. It was not restored to airworthy condition ( only static display) as the funds to do this were welll beyond the resouces of the hard working team of volunteers.

I think the DA twin is a good choice for your Pup again because it is a quality motor and low in vibration. Again you will only need to breathe on the throttle. They will fly competently on 50cc or less but there is a lot of drag and having the reserve is prudent.

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       Post #: 748

RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 8:54 AM   
rotorboy2.4gh


 

Posts: 97
Score: 100
Joined: 4/2/2009
Last Login: 5/15/2013
From: st. louis, MO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crashwilson

I like the idea of the koveral and Minwax!But you still have to paint it.And that requires spray painting I presume!Can't wait to see how you made that stiching,Also is pook still around? I read his reply on the landing gear and I wanted some more info on them.The pictures he posted were real nice and I would like to try and come out with something like that on mine. My Pup is coming along at a good pace,but everytime I read you guys comments I want to incorperate them on mine.I have a brand new Zenoah G62 still in the box and somtimes I think I hear it tring to start up!!!! Can't wait till that Day.

Look at post 679-and 682,I also followed their approach on the scale landing gear. Works awesome. Once you primer the Koverall after the minwax-Latex paint is what most are doing now. Yea,the 62 is a good fit. Im going with the G38 with the Toni Clark Gear reduction and swing the big 32in prop. I think i have the pics of the stitch loaded here. I am no great scale builder,-Just havein fun. Thats my first attempt at any kind of stitch. I figured,ya cant learn if ya dont try. It looks good enough to me. Thats what counts i guess. Im sure some could rip me apart,but its about the effort and learning. I really am haveing fun.Frank.PS-I have ask about Pook many times,and no one will answer about him.Im sure hope my fears arent a reality. This whole group of guys were so inspiring to me,Canuck-Pook-Foodstick-Tmoth-Frank S.too many names to cover. Im with ya there.I will though embrace any advice on my stitch attempt-VERY WELCOMED!!

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(in reply to crashwilson)
       Post #: 749

RE: BALSA USA 1/3 SOPWITH PUP????? - 1/1/2013 3:12 PM   
crashwilson


 

Posts: 27
Score: 100
Joined: 12/29/2012
Last Login: 4/20/2013
From: DeMotte, IN, USA
Status: offline 		rotorboy, Nice pictures, and they due look pretty darn good to me.I checked out the posts for the gear and it cleared my mind up some,I know that the two pieces are solder together.I see two pieces on the bottom, one long one which I think is the axle and then another  shorter one. in the the middle I can't quite make out how they are connected!. then what keeps the axles from bendining up with wheels on and landing?WHAT KIND OF THREAD DID YOU USE FOR STICHING?

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       Post #: 750

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