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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/17/2006 3:35 AM   
Fisher



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Status: offline 		You two seem to be moving right along. Ken you have so many irons in the fire, you will be launching a full fledged air force soon. I spent all day Sunday on the Air Force Base watching real planes do things my foamy has been doing. The F-22 Raptor is unbelievable.

Took off in a short distance. Retracted gear. Pulled into hi alpha flight and then went completely vertical. Then slowly flew straight up to ~3,000' laid it on its back and began a short inverted fall/tumble out of the sky. Corrected from this stood it on its tail and sat their for a bit before beginning another wild tumble. Brought it to a stop in the air and began a flat decent while turning 360 degrees in the horizontal . Did not look real. What man can do with a few hundred million dollars and a goal in mind is amazing! In the middle of all this two Sandhill Cranes flew over in perfect formation (the finest airships).

Took the kids out Monday to catch a few coho salmon. I got out fished by the youngins' as usual.

I should be back playing with my toys soon.

Cheers,

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< Message edited by Fisher -- 8/17/2006 9:45 AM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/17/2006 5:39 AM   
hccjon


 

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Status: offline 		Hello, I have been following this forum for awhile and decided to build one. I always liked the drone look for aircraft and when I saw
the camo paint scheme I was sold. I decided to build it a little different but stayed pretty close to the overall dimensions. I am using 6 mil depron, some ply and stock wing. I routed all pieces on my router and hot wired the wing. I have almost all the pieces so soon I will be assembling it.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/17/2006 6:56 AM   
hccjon


 

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Status: offline 		Here is some pictures of it put together but not glued. I made it all with tabs so it almost snaps together. It also helps keep everything square.

Let me know what you think.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/17/2006 9:53 AM   
Fisher



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Status: offline 		hccjon,

OUCH! I now see the true level I am working at. (rocks and sticks) You my friend are a one man plane milling machine. I assume that you are using a CNC router with basic CAD capability? If so do you have a CNC hotwire unit as well. How soon will you be kitting this plane? Can't wait to see the finished product. Should come in about 10 ounces or less I would assume. May even qualify as a slow flier. I need to start working with Depron. You have set the bar quite high for the rest of us new builders. Keep us informed and welcome to the thread.

You look much younger in the photo than I would have guessed.

< Message edited by Fisher -- 8/17/2006 9:55 AM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/17/2006 12:33 PM   
ken 68


 

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Status: offline 		WOAH !
Don't ya just love that depron ? I'v been watching how it works and hccjon really done it proper with the tabs. Fisher just be thankfull that you can take the kids fishing even if they do smoke you. I saw a demo. of the raptor a while back on TV and they must be one H**l of a plane. I thought Art Shoal put on quite a show with his chipmonk but the jet jockeys are doing the headache and more now. Don't the F-22 have thrust vectoring also ? hccjon You have woke up Fisher. He's up there where the sun don't know how to quit. And I thrive better when I have LOTS of projects going. Even been working on most of them. Well its
4:30 AM and im going back to bed. Happy Daze Ken

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/17/2006 5:37 PM   
Smooth Spanky



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Status: offline 		hccjon:
Nice!! I thought the same thing as fisher when I saw the picture...this must be a CNC routing job, unless you have the steady hands of a surgeon! Since you've taken the time to program this design, I'm sure you'll want to get a return on your time invested by selling kits to all of us! Put me down for one.

What are you thinking for motor/prop combination?

Keep the pics comin'

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/18/2006 1:14 AM   
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Status: offline 		I've still got to respond to a few prior messages in this thread but don't have the time at the moment. Wanted to say, though, that it's nice to see a few new names on this thread so Fisher, Ken, and I don't drive each other crazy. I very much like the hollow fuse and if she's built real light you shouldn't need any kind of reinforcement. As the others know I tend to build my planes to take everything short of a small nuclear exposion. If your weight is going to be anything much about 10 or 12 ounces I'd do something to strengthen the front hollow fuse area. Carbon rods, spray in "Great Stuff" foam from Home Depot, etc. Keep chiming in with photos and bragging rights as we need the diversion of a fresh face or two to spruce up this thread.

I just came from the garage and a bit of work on the plane. After soldering up the electronics the other day I installed the motor onto it's mounting plate and held the electronics to the side of the plane where they should be so I could trace around them with a magic marker. Then just took some heated up aluminum via the good old propane torch and melted out the chambers. I like to install the electronics on the right side of the plane just deep enough to hide them since this gives the right side slightly more weight and should help compensate for the left pull these planes seem to have at neutral trim (due to the aileron disrupting airflow and causing the left wing to dip). This should help reduce the need for right trim some.

I also decided I wanted some flat carbon on the bottom of the fuse to the tip of the nose since this part of the body takes the most abuse on a less than graceful landing. However, I was out of flat carbon long enough and it won't bend around the shape of the nose anyway. I did happen to have some fiberglass rods sitting around (If you see an umbrella or a patio one in the garbage grab it because they have nice thin and light fiberglass rods in them) so I melted the belly of the fuse from nose to tail and glued it in. I wanted to front end of the rod to just reach the very tip of the nose so I had to melt the chamber a good 1/2" to 2/3rds of an inch into the foam so it could go in straight from nose to tail. On a hard nose in the rod should take the abuse and not squash the nose. I cheated and poured in some Weldbond glue pretty thick so this is going to add some weight to the plane...but it will mostly be nose weight and in my experience this plane needs it. If anybody does this just keep in mind that you can't go too deep with the rod in the body or you may block the foam where you need to melt the battery chamber once you've *completely* built the plane, tape and all, and have only to find where the battery needs to sit to get COG proper. Since I moved my booms forward to the very leading edge of the wing and extended my ESC/servos as far forward as they can go as well I'm hoping there will be no need for a nose weight to fix COG this time.

My booms are one inch further apart than the plans call for. I wanted to do this so the one sat flush with the aileron's edge and thus my servo and control horn would be right in line with each other. A smarter approach would be to make the aileron 1" or so longer than the plans as the bigger it is the more control you'll have. Mine is wider, though...and that should help the right/left. Since the stabilizer and elevator are thus one inch longer I made their width one inch shorter than the plans. That should keep the surface area the same and not screw up any lift? It may reduce my left/right ability as the tail is now wider but hope the bigger aileron compensates. This plane already has huge ability in elevation control and I can imagine what a shorter plane is going to do to increase that.

I'm going to throw up some photos and more endless/needless/painful details soon. Maybe tonight...

By the way, hccjon...Nice job!

PS- Before I forget, have any of you guys seen the new Super Cub by Parkzone? The local hobby store had this thing hanging from the ceiling and I plane to by the body parts to throw my own electronics into. Always wanted a cub and this thing is very pretty. It's large (Like Aerobird Extreme large), made completely of foam (I plan to make some jigs to copy the body and start hot wiring out my own), and even has a foam wing with an airfoil much like the ones we are cutting out. Keep this in mind if any body following this thread doesn't want to tackle the wing just yet...$19 and on the shelf at most hobby stores. The thing uses a 480 and a rudder, elevator, and steerable tail wheel. Another winner for Hobbyzone/Parkzone in my opinion. Hear it flys real nice too...




< Message edited by critterhunter -- 8/18/2006 1:31 AM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/18/2006 7:36 AM   
hccjon


 

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Status: offline 		Yes I do have a cnc router which I used to cut the flat pieces. The wing I had to do old school, which is the first wing I've ever done. That's not counting the two I scraped. I have never built a plane from scratch before and the last kit I built was about twelve years ago. I bought an electric heli this summer and it got the juices flowing. I swaped the brushed motor for a brushless so I was going to use the brushed motor in the plane. It's a 380. I did spend a lot of time on drawing it, one can be amazed how something that is all straight lines can consume so much time. It is you guys that inspire me.

I am now building the molds to vacuum form the nose, cowl, wingtips and front covers for the tail booms. I will post some more pictures when I get there.

Everyone I love looking at the pictures of your projects so keep them coming.

hccjon

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/20/2006 4:28 AM   
critterhunter



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Status: offline 		Hccjon,
It always amazes me to see how many different approaches people can take to the same set of plans...From the light and "simple" route that Fisher took, to the "flying tank" approach I'm taking, to a more refined art of CNC building that Hccjon is progressing with. Then there's the fact that these plans have mutated from the original brushed 400 and nimhs to brushless motors like the BP21 and lipos. In the past we've seen others mod other plane wings to this thing and even build it out of a different kind of foam. Don't forget the talk of using floats for water take offs and landings...Something we still haven't heard the end results on. I might have to try that in the future. I've been playing with ideas for homemade floats that will quickly and easily detach from the plane when not doing water takeoffs/landings. One day maybe Fisher, me, or somebody else will finally do the upscaled size 540 motor/Sub C nimh or lipo build. That's going to be something to see. How about a scaled down version of the plane for indoor or front yard flying? I've been toying with using the guts from one of my Aero Aces for a tiny flyer.

Still don't have the time to do some responds to older messages (Ken, etc...), but give me a day or two.

By the way, I picked up some thin balsa stock today. Going to soak it and bend it around the entire nose/fuse and secure with foam safe CA. Even though I'm putting Extreme strapping tape around the entire fuse I figured it would only help and keep any road rash from chunking foam under the tape. Never played with soaking balsa so it will bend properly without breaking. Any advice on how to do it? How long to soak it? Does it have to dry out held in place on the plane before gluing? Etc...


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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/21/2006 9:43 AM   
hccjon


 

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Status: offline 		Hey How was everyones weekend. I took my son to the rc airshow that they have every year here. Those real turbines are incredible!!! One guy had this huge yak with a turbo prop. He said that there is a four second delay between when you give it gas to when the motor will spin up and visa-versa on the slowing down. He would hover the thing with his rudder only a few inches from the ground. The amazing thing is that he had to do every movement four seconds ahead of time, so much for trying to get out out of trouble at the last second.

Made some good progress this weekend. I decided to go with two ailerons, so I made them two inches instead of three. Has anyone else done this? I put some carbon rod in the wing, there is three mil on the front and one and a half mil on the trailing edge. I know you get better results putting them around the thickest part of the airfoil but I was trying to kill two birds with one stone by making the leading edge less prone to damage.

Critterhunter, I know you can glue balsa when its wet with regular ca but I do not know how the foam friendly stuff will react. This is the first time I have every used it. I would think that a simple test would remove all doubt.

Has anyone been flying their So. I think we need a new name for the aircraft. Maybe because everyone's plane is so distinctive to each builder we all need a different name four our planes.


hccjon

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/21/2006 10:00 AM   
hccjon


 

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Status: offline 		I did some vacuum forming on Saturday night and I need some constructive criticism on the way it looks. The boom caps I'm okay with but it is the canopy that I'm not sure I like. The nose was ok but it was a bit flimsy so decided to put some pour foam in it to try to give is a little impact resistance. It turns out that that was a big failure, so I included a picture for everyone to see what not to do. I will have to try again. Please be honest on your opinion of the canopy.

If anybody has the weight of their plane before electronics I would appreciate if you could post it.

hccjon

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/22/2006 12:32 AM   
Fisher



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Status: offline 		hccjon,

I used two ailerons on my last build. It does give a bit more maneuverability but not as much as I had expected. I kept both ailerons full sized. I think yours will be so light that it will not make any difference having two servos instead of only one.

Boom covers, and canopy look very good. You might bubble the canopy and move it forward a bit if you want to pickup the A-10 look at all. Otherwise it looks great. The nose is in need of a complete rework. You might consider building the nose out of the same material you built the wing out of. You might also consider making it replaceable like the Stryker nose, put magnets on it to hold it in place. Just a thought. You definitely seem to have the right mind set to refine this plane into a kit if were so inclined. The way the boom covers and canopy overlap the wing will add quite a bit a strength.

As for the name I do not have any suggestions yet. I stayed with the SO series to remind me who really designed this thing. I did add the What. So I think I will keep the SO What # series for my planes. Maybe after you get her in the air you will receive a little inspiration.

Lookin' Good!

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/24/2006 3:01 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hccjon, my opinion mirrors what Fisher had to say. I really like those boom covers! Going to have to try my hand at injection molding sooner or later. Another toy to build. One other thing to keep in mind about aileron control...Perhaps using a long control horn on the servo like the ones they use in 3D would give the aileron so much deflection that one aileron can do very well? Of course, before going to that there is always increasing the rates on the radio to give larger throws. Might be a good time to remind anybody new to this plane that the elevator on it gives a huge response. To start out, drop your rates on it to about 60%. I'd increase the aileron rates to the full 125%. It's also a good idea to give it just a bit of right trim in the aileron until you figure things out trim wise. Safe yourself from the mistakes I've made and test throw the plane before trying to fly it. I like to get down on my knees facing into the wind and throw the plane flat and level over some tall grass as close to the ground as possible. After a few throws you'll soon figure out the proper trim. If should for the most part sail straight and land flat.

Still haven't got around to responding to older posts or finishing my plane up for that matter. I've stopped progress until I get out my camera and take some more photos to post.


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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/31/2006 1:30 AM   
Fisher



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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 8/31/2006 3:11 AM   
ken 68


 

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Status: offline 		And Fisher awakes from a deep sleep. Howdy Its been slow here. I got my little Jet all together and had to rip it apart. It seams when I checked my balance I had a heavier battery in it but gross weight was to heavy so I bought some lighter batterys. I had moved the fan back and forgot NO MAKE THAT got stupid and didn't make one last check. I bought 3 of them so # 2 is comming along and I have figured how to fix # 1. I had moved the fan back 3/4" to balance so im going to get a GWS 55 fan with a lighter motor and put it back together the way I had it with lighter fan and the heavy batterys. The 55MM fan with a brushless will be stronger than the one I took out I will have to glass the fuslage cause it will be thin but it will work. I bought a Cheepmunk on the Hobby Lobby Crash sale and in progress of modding it Remove the brush type 64 gram motor and putting on a 40 gram brushless
Among other things Suppers ready . More to come. Ken

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/1/2006 3:01 AM   
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Status: offline 		i built one of these from pink foam. changed a couple dimensions, such as wing span and wing cord. weighed in a bit heavy, but running it with an eflite 480 910kv outrunner and a 7x6 prop. i've flown it about 5 times. not getting the best performance i'd hope for yet, but i'm pleased that it at least flies right now. i did add a second aileron, because i wasn't getting enough response from the single. that made a big improvement. i'll try to get some pics up this weekend.

i'd like to know what kind of performance everyone is gettiing with their plane, so i can better judge what i can expect as i make further adjustments.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/1/2006 7:40 PM   
Fisher



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Status: offline 		Ken,

You have so many projects in the works I cannot keep up. Wears me out just hearing about them. So I'll bet your heart is probably stronger than mine.

geo8498,

Since I am not a very experienced builder or pilot I am not sure what you are looking for with regard to flight performance. My three attempts at this plane have all flown very well. They can do most any aileron based aerobatics and with the brushless motor I get pretty good speed and performance with a 7x4 slow flyer prop. I put two ailerons in the last one and it did help with low speed handling. My planes have never drilled a hole in the sky with regard to roll rate. Would probably have to make some significant modifications to get the handling to improve much. The AUW has been coming out around 16 oz with the 2000 mAh 11.1 v lipo. I have kept it as light as possible. I put a $15 BP-21 outrunner on it and it moves right along. Not a white knuckle speed demon but it still moves out nicely. One thing it does very well is loops. 1/2 throttle 3' off the ground and pulling a loop is no problem. Foamflyer describes these planes as solid flyers and they seem to be. Hope this is helpful. Glad to hear from you.

Where's Critterhunter. Oh ya it must be critter huntin' time.


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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/2/2006 12:22 AM   
ken 68


 

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Is it time for the fall hunt allready ? I guess summer is about over cause the grands have been back to school for a while now. I have to have several projects going on at a time cause I keep running into walls with them. The foamflyer needs wings cause my
power supply won't stay working. I Have the Hobby Lobby crash sale Cheepmunk almost ready for the 40 gram brushless motor I
ordered from jerseynshirt. Reading from others builds the landing gear will tear off the wing skin (thin depron) so I moved the aileron servo to the top side of the wing and belly landing it. Im about to order a pair of ready cut wings $14.00 and go ahead and build the foam flyer. I spent that much trying to repair the hotwire power supply and it only worked 5 min. Thats why I need more than one project going at once. I have been playing with meat trays and love the way they cut. Sure is a lot easier than balsa. All you need is a way to keep the blade sharp. I have been using a kitchen knife sharpener. Works fair but there has to be a better way. Well I better get a bit done on one of my many projects-. You take care and catch a big one for me. Ken

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/4/2006 7:18 PM   
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Status: offline 		Here is some pics of the finished So. I have to get some flying in now.




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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/6/2006 12:38 AM   
Fisher



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Status: offline 		hccjon,

Very sweeeet looking plane. Excellent photos. I do not think it will need a motor at all if you toss it as hard as you look like you are about to in the last photo. If the speed/power is not up to your expectations once you get a chance to fly it you might try using a TP-21 brushless motor. Now only $9.95 at Raidentech.

http://www.raidentech.com/bmoubrmowfim.html

http://www.raidentech.com/30aelbrescsp.html ESC

Please file a full flight report when you have a chance.

I just spend the entire weekend trying to destroy my Slo-V. Got so used to flying this foamy that I cannot seem to keep the Slo-V in the air very long before I do something dumb and stall it out.




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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/6/2006 1:02 AM   
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Status: offline 		Fisher: great prices on the motors/esc's, thanks for the link.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/6/2006 7:41 AM   
hccjon


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I got out today for a fly. I think it flew great. I hand launched it then turned on the power and at half throttle and it climbed out at a steady rate and was very stable. I flew for about ten minutes then I cooked the brushed motor. I guess I have to step up to brushless. Thanks Fisher for the links.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/7/2006 12:38 AM   
Fisher



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Last Login: 8/19/2012
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear the motor fried. But sounds like it flew well for you. Those Tower Pro Brushless motors are for sale anywhere from $10 to $18. Just depends on what vendor you are most comfortable with. I bought a slew of them for $18 8 months ago and have not been able to kill the first one. Even with several bad crashes.

http://graysonhobby.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=55

http://64.33.154.92/blackdogrc/brushless.jsp#BM2408-21

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V815101

Have fun.

_____________________________

I never crash while flying, it''s the landings that get me.

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(in reply to hccjon)
       Post #: 498

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/9/2006 7:41 AM   
hccjon


 

Posts: 8
Score: 100
Joined: 6/4/2006
Last Login: 5/18/2013
From: Sidney, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I got a new motor and went flying today. Flew great, this plane keeps getting more and more fun.



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(in reply to Fisher)
       Post #: 499

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 9/9/2006 7:53 AM   
Fisher



Posts: 641
Score: 100
Joined: 9/21/2004
Last Login: 8/19/2012
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		hccjon,

Great! Did you make the jump to brushless yet?

Now when I fly mine I pull a couple of loops and a roll before it even gets 300 feet away. Glad to hear you are liking the plane too. Now that you have shown me up with regard to build quality and methods I just had to try something without any plans at all. I pulled a photo of the Parkzone P-51D off of their website and used it as a rough guide. Here are the early results. I am sure it will fly but my hotwire cutting has gone to h#$$. I will have to do a lot of sanding to clean up these surfaces. What do you all think so far?

Ken 68? Critterhunter?

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< Message edited by Fisher -- 9/9/2006 7:56 AM >

_____________________________

I never crash while flying, it''s the landings that get me.

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(in reply to hccjon)
       Post #: 500

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