RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/2/2006 5:24 PM

critterhunter

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Fisher, nothing cheers me up more than hearing other people aren't happy with their jobs and are considering career changes in their 30s, 40s, or 50s.

I''ll be 39 this August and have basically put the last 14 years into a business that isn't going to offer me retirement. Took me a lot of time and effort to realize that. It's kind'a bleak to come to the realization that I have to switch careers in my 30's. The bad winter weather and too much time on my hands has given me a lot of time to sit around and think. Yes, I know it's the low light levels that trigger it. Still doesn't make it anymore fun to go through.

On a brighter note, it's today's job market MANY people are having to switch careers later in life so I'm not alone. I also read that the oncoming babyboomer retirements over the next 5 to 10 years will create huge demand in the job market. Many companies are finding it hard to find qualified employees with even just a little bit of schooling in the field they are in. I've always been fairly good with electronics, reading schematics, and troubleshooting things with a multimeter. For that reason I'm considering a career in heating and air conditioning repair. They way I hear it, HVAC will have a drastic increase in demand for technicians over the next decade. The few people I've talked to who are in it say it's really simple plug-n-play work. You use a multimeter to check voltage or resistances across the input or output of a board (or sensor) and if it isn't within specs you yank and replace. No real need to know parts on a component level (which I do know a bit about...resistors, capacitors, etc) since you aren't going to replace those but rather you simply yank the entire bad component (such as a control board). Funny part is I was talking to a couple of young certified techs the other day and ended up being able to read a schematic better than one of them. His friend said "You're certified and this guy knows more than you!". Another guy lucked into the field by answering phone lines for a HVAC company. Didn't go to school. Just read the manuals and took the certification test. He said it's easier than pie and anybody who can use a multimeter would find the stuff pretty easy. He's making $1500 a week, which isn't chump change in my area. Just trying to inspire myself into doing this stuff. It's either that or something in the medical field...which I don't think I've have as much of a knack for.

What's this got to do with foamies? Nothing, so I'll shut up now...My build won't begin until this spring.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/3/2006 5:00 PM

Fisher

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Hibernate a bit longer and then Get To It!

Cheers.

< Message edited by Fisher -- 3/3/2006 5:01 PM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/13/2006 12:58 AM

lckstrk

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To Start this is my first post...I have been following this thread since it was only a page or so long. I will have to say the original plans that were offered by foamflyer were very simple and easy to follow. This design is my 3rd try at a scratch built foamy and I will have to say my most enjoyable build and flying experience of the three. My plane follows the overall design almost exactly with the following modifications--I used a dowel in the main wing to add strength and am using two ailerons. I believe foamflyer built his with one. Instead of a speed 400 I am using a double stator cd-rom motor running on a 3s1p 1500ma electrifly li-poly. I have used both a 6x4 apc prop and a 7x4. Both props work really well and both can get the plane airborn with authority from the ground with out landing gear. The 7x4 cuts a little more grass than the 6x4 and taxes the motor a little more, so I have been sticking with the 6x4. Speed is excellent and much better than my stock stryker. I used 2" pink insulation foam for the bulk of the build and dow blue cor for control surfaces and vertical stabilizers.

I think my biggest surprise was the vertical performance and speed that can be achieved while still having a very stable platform at low speeds.

Thanks also for the info on hot wire designs. Wire, spring, 90 degree metal shelf bracket (x2), 1X1, and battery charger is all it takes. I already had most of it so the entire build cost less than 5 dollars.

Good flying

Brett

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/13/2006 8:52 AM

Espresso-Outfitters

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Brett welcome aboard. fisher, get some plant lights that simulate the true sun. I put one of those bulbs into my regular lighting inadvertantliy not knowing what I was buying in the first place. Put it/them into your dedicated hobby place and you are conceivably builidng in the mid summer, this should help, critterhunter, read your pm's, this dialog has nothing to do with free foam anything.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/13/2006 5:00 PM

Fisher

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lckstrk,

Please post a couple of pictures of your build. Sounds like you are ROG with this plane without landing gear? What is your AUW? My SO What 2 weighs in at 420 grams (~15 oz.) I attempted an outside loop yesterday and ended up lawn darting my SO What at full throttle. I probably could have put it back together but decided to decommission it. Number 2 was in the air before the end of the day. With two ailerons does the plane roll on a straight axis. With one it kind of cork screws.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/13/2006 7:45 PM

critterhunter

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Ickstrk, good job on building this plane and glad to hear it was an easy build and is performing well for you. I'm interested in the fact that you used pink 2" foam for the build. Is this the Owens Corning stuff at Home Depot? Reason I ask is I was looking at that stuff and it is much stronger and smoother than the foam specified for this plane. Sure, I bet it weighs a bit more but a lipo and brushless motor would more than make up for that in weight savings and better performance. Did you keep the other dimensions the same or did you slightly increase the wing to compensate for the potential extra weight (which probably wouldn't be a factor as the lipo and brushless motor would save weight over nimhs and a 400). Can you go into more detail on which foam you used for the body and the control surfaces? I'm also glad that you, like Fisher, found this plane to perform well at both low and high speeds. I prefer both abilities much the same as my brushless Stryker has. I'd also be interested in your plane's weight without electronics installed and with to compare to the other foam.

Fisher, sorry to hear about #1 but happy to see you've got #2 in the air already. Did you stick with one airleon on this build and what size did you make it? I'm willing to bet that when using one flap you could get it to perform near as good as having two if the size was increased? By the way, I noticed you're in the Aero Ace thread in the micro plane forum. Did you buy one of these bad boys yet? At $29 from Toys-R-Us or Target with a lipo battery TX it seems like a really good deal. Also think the other tiny fliers being built with it's electronics are pretty cool...like the fighter design. The original plane is pretty crash proof and performs well from what I hear, but even $29 for just the electronics is well worth the price to throw into other micro planes. I hear it gives over 10 minutes air time and more with an aftermarket single cell lipo. I'll be buying one soon enough. Hmmm....wonder how well it'd work in a scaled down tiny So flier? Hint...Hint...

Expresso, yes...I'll get to the PMs and reply. Actualy, I did a nice long reply to you a few weeks back and the computer bombed on me when I tried to post it. Really cheesed me off and so I've been putting off having to retype a response...but will soon.

Well guys, as you probably know I've been hacking out a Challenger body with standard electronics, control rods, 3 cell lipo, and BP21 brushless motor. Tried to take that beast up the other day and it promptly rolled over and smacked head first into a patch of cement. The damage is minimal. Just lost the piece of plastic I head the control rods glued to near the tail. Still, it tweaked me off and now I'm not sure if I'm going to repair and try to fly it again. May give it another chance or two, but if it really gets me mad I'm yanking the electronics to put on this thread's foamie. Great, now I've got three projects for this foam build...A stock size with the BP21 and 3 cell 2000ma lipo, the 540 brushed motor Sub C 6 and 7 cell 3300ma scaled up version, and perhaps a tiny micro build using the Aero Ace guts. Since the Aero Ace used two motors for control that will really make it look like a P38.

By the way, I did manage a few good flights with my BP21 Stryker a week or two ago. This plane had only one or two quick outings after it was completed in the winter. Took it up last time to trim it out. Had it about right. Once my second and final battery pack was dead in the air I brought it around for a landing. SMACK into a telephone pole I thought I was already past. Spun around about eight times. Parts flying everywhere. No damage! Except for a cracked stock motor mount which is no biggie at all. Just a little glue on that plastic mount and she's ready again. The way it looked I thought I ripped a wing tip off when it clipped the pole. Luckily I'm using magnets to attach the nose and canopy so what flew off was supposed to without chunking foam.

Anyway, feeling a bit better lately so I'm going to try to build that hot wire cutter this weekend or so.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/13/2006 9:55 PM

Fisher

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Critter,

Loosing SO What #1 was a fine experience. An absolute vertical ascent into the ground. I will post pictures soon.

The Aero Ace is a lot of fun and flies forever on that little battery. I bought it for my son. OK that was the excuse. Lately the electronics have been cutting out a lot. But, fly it in no wind and man is it a lot of fun. Well worth the cash.

Now you can get a BP-21 with esc even cheaper at $40 plus shipping or $12 for the motor. Check out the Market section of RCUniverse.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/category.cfm?catID=25

lckstrk,

Please post pictures. I am also interested in weight like Critterhunter mentioned.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/13/2006 10:57 PM

critterhunter

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Fisher, good deal on the BP21...Is that with the BP30 amp speed control? I've got three BP21s and two BP30 amp speed controls right now. The first two BP21s took a lot of punishment due to my mistakes (overtorking the set screw and blowing bearings, ripping out the 3 motor wires when the motor came loose from the mount, overheating, etc...) but these thinks keep on ticking. I re-built one of the first two motors with a new shaft and bearings and had to re-solder the three motor wires directly to the windings as they popped out of the nylon collar solder points. The motor still works great despite my abuse. The other is sitting there waiting for a re-build. It also needs a new shaft, bearings, and some creative solder work to re-attach the three wires via the windings where they come up to the solder points on the nylon collar...but I'm sure it'll work fine if I take the time to fix it. The third motor is working like a champ on the Stryker and I haven't got around to destroying it's new-like condition yet. The BP30 speed controls also are quality. The first one heated up some much that the heat shrink melted away from it (when I was experiencing a short in the motor wires in mid-air and had to keep reseting the throttle to nurse the plane back). Yet, it keeps on kicking. That's the other important thing to do...remove the motor from the mounting plate and put some glue on the surface of the plate so it doesn't conduct should one of the three wires touch it. The motor and speed control really can't be beat price wise and the performance is second to none unless you want to spend a LOT of money for a motor with higher performance.

Yea, I'd also like to hear more details on the build with the pink foam (Owens Corning?) and what other material you used. That stuff should be a lot more bullet proof than the foam specified in the plans.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/14/2006 8:45 AM

Espresso-Outfitters

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The pink foam is what I have to use outside of the white for all local puchases, it's dense, but not so much that it affects weight dramatically considering the power trains we are using. It's foam, so is brittle, but is alot easer to work with the the other, haven't even tried blue yet, have no direct access to it, will be using dupron and FFF next, I like it all, each has their own merits, and in fact, should all be incorporated in all arf's combining strenghts in their respective areas. I recently picked up some soft, heavy craft foam, this will make awsome leading edge material since it will give and spring back to original shape.

To keep in the free foam section topic in tact, I asked critterhunter to build me one, I have no time to do this stuff at present, I guess I should just post it to the thread directly, PM me if you can deliver.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/15/2006 6:58 AM

Fisher

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Here is the carnage.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/15/2006 9:26 PM

Fisher

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Just found what looks like a good deal on 3 cell 8C LiPo batteries. These do not have a high discharge (~16 amps) but they look to be good quality and the price is $21 each when you purchase 2 packs. They even come with a balancing lead and a pre-installed Dean's Ultra plug. I might have to try one. Heck between the $40 BP-21 with 15 AMP ESC and a $21 LiPo. There is little reason not to go brushless in all your planes. Especially a light weight Foamy.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_35&products_id=68

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490095

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/15/2006 10:39 PM

critterhunter

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Fisher....I bet you could fix So #1 with your eyes closed...And that's probably how you were flying it to cause the damage.

Seriously, doesn't look beyond repair but seeing how you put together #2 so quick and easy I probably would have done the same thing. After all, that's why we (you) built this foamie...Something quick, easy, and inexpensive to make. You could always do a little test bedding with #1...Cut the wing length down and see how much faster and more agile it makes the plane, etc.

Hey, nice find on those lipos! Just remember, 16 amps is the draw of the BP21 on a 3 cell lipo using a 7x6 prop. Since you are using a 7x4 (?), that should cut the amp draw down a bit (how many amps is the 7x4 drawing?) but you are probably still pushing near the limits of the lipo. Also, is 16 amps the constant amp draw ability of that lipo or is that burst? If not, what is the burst rate? If it's somewhere near 20 amps and you're 7x4 is drawing around 12 or 14 amps WOT you might be able to use them without being hard on those lipos. Can't beat that price for a 2000ma lipo, though. Heck, it's only $5 or $10 more than one Dymond 2000ma 10C lipo and you are getting two. Balance tabs and deans ultras already installed also make it a nice choice as the Dymond comes with neither a plug or balance tab...just two wires to solder too but are good quality. Hmmm.....I'm using a Celectra 1 to 3 cell lipo charger. I really like it as it's compact and has numerous safety features but no balancing system. You'd probably know this better than me...The way I understand it there are two ways to go about balancing. One is a charger that balances as it charges. The other is method to hitch a little dongle to the tab that will draw down all three cells to the same level of discharge so they all are in the same level when you begin the charging process. I'd expect these devices should be fairly cheap if they are just used to discharge to the right level. Have any links or info on those? By the way, the only other company (besides the one you just showed) that had cheaper lipos than Dymond was somebody on Ebay. I think these packs were called PollyQuests or PollyPacks or something like that. Did you check into those?

Yep, the advent of lower prices on lipos and brushless motors by at least a few companies if you know where to look have really made them the premium choice for park flyers. A big improvement over the weight and performance of brushed motors and nimhs. It's also the death bell for gas planes. Sure, they'll still be around but fast going the way of control line planes.

Let us know how well these lipos work for you. Interested to know how hot they get after a full WOT flight and what amp you are drawing.

< Message edited by critterhunter -- 3/15/2006 10:41 PM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/16/2006 4:36 AM

Fisher

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Critter,

Those LiPo Batteries can handle 16 amps continuous. Since I am using a 7x4 prop and a 15 amp speed control I think they would work great for me. The same folks have a free cell balancing charger if you purchase ~$90 worth of batteries. See the RC Groups thread link in my last post. Looks like a great deal. They also have a cell balancing chip for $24.95.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_29&products_id=110

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/16/2006 8:33 AM

Espresso-Outfitters

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Glad to hear that brushless is becoming affordable, I'm reluctant to go that route at present, but you guys pointed out some very enticing deals, perhaps I should rethink my strategy...

I'm getting close to finishing this Jenny ARF, I have to say, it's a very advanced build, you gotta shake the hand of one that has done it, there were no instructions, but a few photo's on the sellers web site that helped, I'm so glad it's coming out to be more then worth the extra effort. I brought it down to a couple of local hobby shops to get a receiver that's going to fit and jive with my radio since the one that was sent with it was incompatable, all were oogling over it and I got a big thumbs up. All I have left is to fire up the new GWS receiver I received with another ARF and tie the pull, pull wires for the tail and connect the aerlons to their servo's and it's ready to fly.

Here is a couple of shots of the Jenny and one of the GWS P51D arf still wrapped up, I'm going to use the newly found foam technology to reproduce a couple of new plane body's since it's obvious it won't handle any crashes and I don't want to go in debt for replacements and/or have to fix it to a point of unflyability. The Jenny, I'm too paranoid to fly it completely on my own so the owner of one of the local shops told me he would go out and take it's maiden flight with me.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/16/2006 4:38 PM

critterhunter

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Fisher, good job again on finding those packs. I've posted those links to a few forums so others know about the great deal. I like sticking it to the man as I feel most brushless motors and lipos are WAY overpriced.

Expresso, nice looking plane! Hope she gives you no problems on the maiden.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/16/2006 6:32 PM

lckstrk

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Sorry it has taken a couple of days to get back and answer some of the questions posted about my build..The 2" Faom that I used is made by Owens Corning. It's brand name is Foamular 150 extruded polystyrene insulation. It is pretty dense so it sands and shapes really well. 150 grit sand paper tears the foam if you are not carefull but 220 on a sanding block works really well for me. It is a little more brittle than other foams so on the parts that will take some abuse ie. bottom of the fusalage, leading edge of the wing, bottoms of the booms and the nose I have covered in packing tape. I also used packing tape to make all the hinge points for the control surfaces.

Electronics include GWS Pico Type 4 channel receiver, 3 gws Naro standard servo's, www.cdrworks.com Mega 4 equalizer brushless motor, 6x4 apc electric prop, Electrifly silver series 20-25 amp speed control (I can't remember which-I had some packing tape attach itself to the top of the speed control on accident and the label came off with the tape), Electrily 11.1v 1500ma lipo, and an older Futaba Conquest 4 channel 72mhz transmitter. The only thing I don't like about this set up is that the speed control on occasion has to be re-armed while in mid flight. It has not presented a problem yet because of the slow flight stability of the plane.

Build info: I kept all sizes of the plane the same from the original plans, except for the 2" wide main body. In fact it looks almost identical to the plane on the first page of the thread only pink and blue. The ailerons are slightly smaller than suggested -- They are 9" long x 1.5" wide. The reason I made them smaller is due to the transmitter that I am using. It is a non programmable transmitter so it basically moves the servos from almost max throw to almost max throw. The somewhat under sized ailerons, made from dow blue cor FFF, keep the plane a little more stable and not so touchey in flight. The Elevator, horizontal, and vertical stabilizers are the same size as suggest in the plans and are made of dow blue cor FFF. I used blue cor because of the plastic backing it has on the foam. Plus the pink foam broke when bench testing the aileron. I did take a dremel tool with a router bit and notched the booms about a 1/4" deep to accept the horizontal and vertical stabilizers for a better glue joint. I used low temp hot glue on all parts. The only draw back to this, or maybe just the characteristics of the foam, were the main body is attached to the foam some of the foam is tearing loose around the glue. So I will have to reinforce that area a little. All servos are hidden into the booms and are protected decently. The elevator servo is notched into the bottom of the boom just underneath the horizontal stabilizer. I also used a 3/8" dowel that spans ~70% of the main wing. I notched the airfoil at it's thickest spot and hot glued the dowel in for strength. I then put packing tape over it to give a clean surface for airflow.

Lckstrk

(luckystrike without the vowels since luckystrike is almost always used as a screen name)

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool ... - 3/16/2006 7:03 PM

lckstrk

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I would add some photos but it won't let me, keeps telling me that my file size is to big. Could be the fact I am on a dial-up connection. Will get photo's posted soon. I am guessing that the AUW is around 20-25 oz because it is slightly heavier than my stock stryker. I don't have landing gear so it ROG's off it's belly. Roll rate is some what axial. It is pretty tight going with the motor and a little corkscrewish going opposite the motor. If I increased the aileron size I am sure the roll rates would increase. I was thinking of a swept wing version of this same plane once the one I have is ready to be decomissioned. I am sure it will go down hard one of these days. It already has about ten flights on it since my first post. I hope this info helps.

Ok..Finally got them to upload. Thanks for the crop hint. Kind of funny before I did that the files were way under the max file size but I guess what ever works. You will have to excuse the bad paint job. I was going to rattle can the plane white first but the acetone and other chemicals in the spray paint started eating the foam. I just used a water based craft paint to get some color on the top of the plane so I wouldn't have any perspective problems. The weight is more likely around the 25 oz mark. I had a chance to weight it yesterday, not very accuratley but close enough. Alls I care is that it flys. I also flew it in 10-15 mph winds yesterday with no problem. At about 1/2 throttle I could get it to just hang in the air with no forward movement. On the under belly picture, if you notice the nose you can see I had to add a pretty big chunk of metal to get the CG correct. If this could be avoided the total weight would have been a bit less. Smaller booms, position of the elevator servo, and slightly small vert and horizontal stabilizers most likely would take of this.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/16/2006 7:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jax_Dorvek

If anyone is struggling on a cutter, I just found the perfect solution (for my trouble at least.)
Find an old computer, get the power supply out of it. these things give you a few diferent voltages, the best being 12v. the lead where you plug a hard drive in is 12v and 2-3 amp, but you can get up to 17v 8 amp if you find a tutorial on how.
I used an old motherboard to plug the supply into (they dont work if you don't plug in a motherboard) but there are a few pages on the net that can show you how to short them out so you dont need a motherboard to turn them on.

Hooked it up to my bow, and vola! clean quick cuts, and thats over a 1 metre bow

I haven't read through all the pages of this thread so this may be redundant...

Sounds like you have an ATX power suply. You just need to hook pin 14 (PS-ON) to one of the grounds (GND) like pin 13 or 16. Typically its a green wire but I have seen variations. That way you don't need to plug it into a motherboard...

BTW an ATX power supply works great as a 12V supply for your DC charger.....

ATX pinout reference

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/16/2006 10:34 PM

critterhunter

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Luckystrike, thanks for the details on your build. Sounds like a good plane. One thing I noticed is that you are using a GWS Pico 4 channel RX. I recently picked up the same RX for my brushless Challenger build. I couldn't pass it up as the price was only $21 WITH crystal at my LHS. Still, after a bit of reading I found out that these RXs aren't full range. In fact, they are only rated at roughly 500 feet. I have yet to fly this RX (first maiden of the Challenger didn't go well) to see how it performs. I'd figure that as long as you keep this RX on a smaller plane that you can't see too far away range shouldn't be a problem. I prefer JR Sport 6 channel full range RXs and use those in my brushless Stryker and yet to be flown Aerobird Extreme that I've converted to standard electronics and pushrods.

On picture file size problems....I forget the file size limit on here but normaly the upload window will just freeze if you've gone beyond the file size allowed. I wonder how people are uploading huge pictures as I end up having to crop mine and lower the resolution to get the file size under what's allowed on here. I'm using Jpeg files but maybe there is some further or better compression method to use? Anybody?

Fisher, by the way, just picked up an Aero Ace today. Charged the battery and pulled into a small soccer field to give her a try. The winds were 5 to 8 mph or so and the plane kept trying to climb on me at full throttle, yet couldn't make any head wind. I stuck a penny in the nose and this helped a lot to fight the wind. Plane made good headway without climbing too much into it. Was great fun to instantly be flying this little bugger. Couldn't believe how small the plane is. Well worth $29 from ToysRUs or Target. Flight time even on this first charge was amazing due to the little lipo battery in it. Can't wait to wreck this body (may take a long time 'cuz it's so light) so I can install the electronics into a custom build.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/18/2006 10:26 AM

Espresso-Outfitters

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aero ace is a nice plane for starters, I'm training my 11 YO girlfriends kid on another version based upon that thrust vector and another that is closer to home in traditional construction, you gotta love what it can do with such limitations to it's set up and am floored with this new toy, the mini flyer, it's a 20.00 micro flyer that is just alot of fun, being so small, it doesn't do any damage upon crashes and can fly anywhere, that and it's a good hoverer "if that's a word, hehe".

Along the Jenny I mentioned before, I get all people oogling over it when I show it in person, most asking if I built it from scratch, I took it out today with a couple of experts, a big thumbs up, looks like I may have a carear in just converting these to RTF's though. This bird is a good flyer!!!

Video is here: http://discflight.com/MVI_1189.AVI

I'll have more soon!!!

< Message edited by Espresso-Outfitters -- 3/18/2006 11:23 AM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/18/2006 5:26 PM

lckstrk

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Critter,

Never had a range problem with the GWS receiver. I too could not pass up such an inexpensive and light receiver. I have flown it way past 500 ft (if you check this, it might be ground to ground -- instead of ground to air) without a hint of loosing control. It could be the strenght of signal from my transmitter though.

The only thing I am not sure about is the speed control having to be rearmed on occasion while in flight. I don't know if it is RF interferance with the Receiver or if I am pushing the speed control on it's limits. I saw some data on the cdr motor I am using from MTWallet and he had 23A and 24A ratings with different prop sizes. The motor itself doesn't get hot and the speed control stays cool as well. I will most likely need to get a new lipo battery thought. I usually only use full throttle in short bursts because the electrifly battery only has an 8c burst rating and after about 10-15 sec the motor on occasion will start to 'flutter' like it needs more power. So I try not to do this.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/18/2006 5:49 PM

Fisher

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lckstrk,

At 15 oz. AUW I am drawing less than 15 amps with a 7x4 APC prop on my SO What #2. Your 8C 1500 mAh battery is only rated for 12 amp continuous discharge so you are probably drawing the voltage down the the cutoff point of your ESC when you run at full throttle for more than a few seconds. Your Silver Series ESC should handle anything that your battery can put out. So I believe that your battery is the source of your problems. The 8C 2000 mAh Commonsense batteries should allow for 16 amp continuous discharge and are half the price of your Electrify.

Can you weigh your plane and give us a sense of total weight?

I have been flying with only on 3" wide aileron and have all the control I need. The only problem I have is that the plane still does not want to roll right. It will turn right fine and rolls left fine as well but without two ailerons it will not roll right very fast at all. I will probably go with 2 ailerons next time.

I went with the Berg Microstamp RX for $35 do to its very selective signal recognition and the fact that it only weighs 4 grams. I can use it in any 4 channel plane I build. Even a very light one. Range is no problem either. Does cost a bit more but not much.

< Message edited by Fisher -- 3/20/2006 4:49 PM >

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/18/2006 7:50 PM

lckstrk

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Fisher,

Right around 25oz. Do you have a website you are getting your Commensense Lipo's from?

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/18/2006 10:14 PM

critterhunter

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Luckystrike, skim up on this page and you'll see the links posted for those $21 2000ma 3 cell 8C (16 amp) lipos. Great deal Fisher found. I have yet to purchase them as I'm using Dymond 2000ma 3 cell 10C (20 amp) lipos. These are a pretty good deal too at only $30-$35 a pack from Dymond Motorsports. The BP21 with a 7x6 prop (best choice on the Stryker) draws about 16 amps so those $21 packs might be pushing it. However, they'd be a great choice on a lighter plane (like this foamie) since I'd be using a smaller 7x4 prop. Keep it mind, as I recently found out, that your prop size is dependent on the weight of the plane. For example, A Stryker weighs around 21 or 22 ounced RTF weight and uses the 7x6 on the BP21. On a Challenger, this foamie, or other planes in the 15 ounce or so range the 7x4 appears to be the proper choice. In your foamie build it appears you've gone about 10 ounces over the design weight, so you might try a prop with larger pitch or length. However, this will push the amp draw even higher and cause more potential ESC reseting problems. I agree with Fisher, it sounds as if your battery is being overamped and quickly hitting the low voltage shutoff of the ESC. After the WOT load has been taken off your battery it may appear to work fine for a bit again but don't let this fool you. My second choice would be the wrong low voltage shutoff setting for the ESC. Third would be a wiring short between the ESC and the motor or somewhere in the motor it's self. I had a random wire grounding problem in my one BP21 that would instantly over amp the ESC and shut it down. A good way to find potential shorts in the motor is to run it at WOT with the lights off in a dark room. Look inside the motor for any sparks. If they occur right before the ESC shuts down then there's your problem.

While on the subject, figured I'd pass this along to you guys. If you have a breaking on/off function I'd recommend turning the brake off. One of my BP21 motors was getting hot just sitting there with brake on. After doing some reading I found out that the braking function involves powering all three wires at the same time. This not only produces heat but puts a drain on the battery. I also don't like the quick stopping action of the motor with the brake on and prefer the prop to be loose when landing. On my Extreme build using it's stock 540 brushed motor the ESC I put in it doesn't have the ability to turn the brake off. Although I have yet to fly this plane, you should hear the sound the motor makes when it instantly stops. I'll be money that one day that motor is going to blow up like a grenade when I kill the throttle. Can't be too good for securing the prop, either.

Thanks for the info on your GWS receiver. Really, if you think about it, 500 feet is roughly 160 yards or so and that's a pretty good distance to be flying a plane of this size or smaller. I've got a pretty good JR600sx computer radio that probably will keep a strong signal to it.

Good job on the plane and good photos. Remember, if you don't buy foam safe paint you can always use magic markers to color it.

Fisher, on your roll being slugish to one side. Could this be due to uneven left/right weight of the plane? Learned this from the Stryker forums. Take the RTF plane and balance it between two finers at the nose and dead center tail area. See if it wants to dip to one side or the other. Even foam can be more dense in one spot versus the other, causing the plane to be a bit heavier on one side. It will affect roll to one side or the other. Another thing to try, besides a larger flap or two, would be to decrease the size of the rudders. Many Stryker guys cut down the vertical fins a bit and this makes the plane roll even faster and tighter. I haven't done this yet as the thing rolls pretty darn fast and tight for my tastes.

Expresso, Yep...that Aero Ace is one fun little bugger. I've yet to remove the bottom wing or move the battery forward to correct the slightly tail heavy from the factory problem most report. Want to make sure these electronics don't bomb out on me before I start modding it. After I've blown this body to bits I plan to throw them into a custom build. I'm thinking a balsa bi-plane from a toy store as others have done. For $2 to $4 for a toy body you can't go wrong. I'm thinking of something WWI style or perhaps a P38 from WWII.

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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Coo... - 3/20/2006 4:55 PM

Fisher

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Critter,

My planes have been fairly well balanced from side to side. I just finished a Reflection build where lateral balance is critical. It is the single aileron that is causing the problem for sure.

Just found out that a fancy paint job does not make you a better pilot. Decided to spruce #2 up a bit with a desert cammo scheme. Got it all done and ready to fly in a couple of hours. Put it in the air and it flew fine. Decided to bring it in low and slow for a better look. Managed to stall it (which is not easy with this plane) and then slammed it into the ground trying to recover. Bent the shaft on the motor. Shattered the prop, cut the wing and busted the motor mount. Had it back in the air after ten minutes with the hot glue gun. Flying while it is snowing is a bit different.

The first two photos are before the first flight. The last one is after 3 good crashes. All crashes were operator error. The plane flies quite well inverted. Just cannot do an outside loop. Or can I? I think I can if I start inverted.

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< Message edited by Fisher -- 3/22/2006 3:29 AM >

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