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RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Co... - 3/2/2006 5:24:51 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Fisher, nothing cheers me up more than hearing other people aren't happy with their jobs and are considering career changes in their 30s, 40s, or 50s. I''ll be 39 this August and have basically put the last 14 years into a business that isn't going to offer me retirement. Took me a lot of time and effort to realize that. It's kind'a bleak to come to the realization that I have to switch careers in my 30's. The bad winter weather and too much time on my hands has given me a lot of time to sit around and think. Yes, I know it's the low light levels that trigger it. Still doesn't make it anymore fun to go through.

On a brighter note, it's today's job market MANY people are having to switch careers later in life so I'm not alone. I also read that the oncoming babyboomer retirements over the next 5 to 10 years will create huge demand in the job market. Many companies are finding it hard to find qualified employees with even just a little bit of schooling in the field they are in. I've always been fairly good with electronics, reading schematics, and troubleshooting things with a multimeter. For that reason I'm considering a career in heating and air conditioning repair. They way I hear it, HVAC will have a drastic increase in demand for technicians over the next decade. The few people I've talked to who are in it say it's really simple plug-n-play work. You use a multimeter to check voltage or resistances across the input or output of a board (or sensor) and if it isn't within specs you yank and replace. No real need to know parts on a component level (which I do know a bit about...resistors, capacitors, etc) since you aren't going to replace those but rather you simply yank the entire bad component (such as a control board). Funny part is I was talking to a couple of young certified techs the other day and ended up being able to read a schematic better than one of them. His friend said "You're certified and this guy knows more than you!". Another guy lucked into the field by answering phone lines for a HVAC company. Didn't go to school. Just read the manuals and took the certification test. He said it's easier than pie and anybody who can use a multimeter would find the stuff pretty easy. He's making $1500 a week, which isn't chump change in my area. Just trying to inspire myself into doing this stuff. It's either that or something in the medical field...which I don't think I've have as much of a knack for.

What's this got to do with foamies? Nothing, so I'll shut up now...My build won't begin until this spring.


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(in reply to Fisher)
       Post #: 126

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Co... - 3/3/2006 5:00:53 PM   
Fisher



Posts: 614
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: Fort Richardson, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Hibernate a bit longer and then Get To It!

Cheers.

< Message edited by Fisher -- 3/3/2006 5:01:34 PM >

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 127

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/13/2006 12:58:58 AM   
lckstrk



Posts: 16
Joined: 1/29/2005
From: portland, OR, USA
Status: offline 		To Start this is my first post...I have been following this thread since it was only a page or so long. I will have to say the original plans that were offered by foamflyer were very simple and easy to follow. This design is my 3rd try at a scratch built foamy and I will have to say my most enjoyable build and flying experience of the three. My plane follows the overall design almost exactly with the following modifications--I used a dowel in the main wing to add strength and am using two ailerons. I believe foamflyer built his with one. Instead of a speed 400 I am using a double stator cd-rom motor running on a 3s1p 1500ma electrifly li-poly. I have used both a 6x4 apc prop and a 7x4. Both props work really well and both can get the plane airborn with authority from the ground with out landing gear. The 7x4 cuts a little more grass than the 6x4 and taxes the motor a little more, so I have been sticking with the 6x4. Speed is excellent and much better than my stock stryker. I used 2" pink insulation foam for the bulk of the build and dow blue cor for control surfaces and vertical stabilizers.

I think my biggest surprise was the vertical performance and speed that can be achieved while still having a very stable platform at low speeds.

Thanks also for the info on hot wire designs. Wire, spring, 90 degree metal shelf bracket (x2), 1X1, and battery charger is all it takes. I already had most of it so the entire build cost less than 5 dollars.

Good flying

Brett

(in reply to Fisher)
       Post #: 128

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/13/2006 8:52:13 AM   
Espresso-Outfitters


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Brett welcome aboard. fisher, get some plant lights that simulate the true sun. I put one of those bulbs into my regular lighting inadvertantliy not knowing what I was buying in the first place. Put it/them into your dedicated hobby place and you are conceivably builidng in the mid summer, this should help, critterhunter, read your pm's, this dialog has nothing to do with free foam anything.

(in reply to lckstrk)
       Post #: 129

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/13/2006 5:00:30 PM   
Fisher



Posts: 614
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: Fort Richardson, AK, USA
Status: offline 		lckstrk,

Please post a couple of pictures of your build. Sounds like you are ROG with this plane without landing gear? What is your AUW? My SO What 2 weighs in at 420 grams (~15 oz.) I attempted an outside loop yesterday and ended up lawn darting my SO What at full throttle. I probably could have put it back together but decided to decommission it. Number 2 was in the air before the end of the day. With two ailerons does the plane roll on a straight axis. With one it kind of cork screws.

(in reply to lckstrk)
       Post #: 130

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/13/2006 7:45:18 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Ickstrk, good job on building this plane and glad to hear it was an easy build and is performing well for you. I'm interested in the fact that you used pink 2" foam for the build. Is this the Owens Corning stuff at Home Depot? Reason I ask is I was looking at that stuff and it is much stronger and smoother than the foam specified for this plane. Sure, I bet it weighs a bit more but a lipo and brushless motor would more than make up for that in weight savings and better performance. Did you keep the other dimensions the same or did you slightly increase the wing to compensate for the potential extra weight (which probably wouldn't be a factor as the lipo and brushless motor would save weight over nimhs and a 400). Can you go into more detail on which foam you used for the body and the control surfaces? I'm also glad that you, like Fisher, found this plane to perform well at both low and high speeds. I prefer both abilities much the same as my brushless Stryker has. I'd also be interested in your plane's weight without electronics installed and with to compare to the other foam.

Fisher, sorry to hear about #1 but happy to see you've got #2 in the air already. Did you stick with one airleon on this build and what size did you make it? I'm willing to bet that when using one flap you could get it to perform near as good as having two if the size was increased? By the way, I noticed you're in the Aero Ace thread in the micro plane forum. Did you buy one of these bad boys yet? At $29 from Toys-R-Us or Target with a lipo battery TX it seems like a really good deal. Also think the other tiny fliers being built with it's electronics are pretty cool...like the fighter design. The original plane is pretty crash proof and performs well from what I hear, but even $29 for just the electronics is well worth the price to throw into other micro planes. I hear it gives over 10 minutes air time and more with an aftermarket single cell lipo. I'll be buying one soon enough. Hmmm....wonder how well it'd work in a scaled down tiny So flier? Hint...Hint...

Expresso, yes...I'll get to the PMs and reply. Actualy, I did a nice long reply to you a few weeks back and the computer bombed on me when I tried to post it. Really cheesed me off and so I've been putting off having to retype a response...but will soon.

Well guys, as you probably know I've been hacking out a Challenger body with standard electronics, control rods, 3 cell lipo, and BP21 brushless motor. Tried to take that beast up the other day and it promptly rolled over and smacked head first into a patch of cement. The damage is minimal. Just lost the piece of plastic I head the control rods glued to near the tail. Still, it tweaked me off and now I'm not sure if I'm going to repair and try to fly it again. May give it another chance or two, but if it really gets me mad I'm yanking the electronics to put on this thread's foamie. Great, now I've got three projects for this foam build...A stock size with the BP21 and 3 cell 2000ma lipo, the 540 brushed motor Sub C 6 and 7 cell 3300ma scaled up version, and perhaps a tiny micro build using the Aero Ace guts. Since the Aero Ace used two motors for control that will really make it look like a P38.

By the way, I did manage a few good flights with my BP21 Stryker a week or two ago. This plane had only one or two quick outings after it was completed in the winter. Took it up last time to trim it out. Had it about right. Once my second and final battery pack was dead in the air I brought it around for a landing. SMACK into a telephone pole I thought I was already past. Spun around about eight times. Parts flying everywhere. No damage! Except for a cracked stock motor mount which is no biggie at all. Just a little glue on that plastic mount and she's ready again. The way it looked I thought I ripped a wing tip off when it clipped the pole. Luckily I'm using magnets to attach the nose and canopy so what flew off was supposed to without chunking foam.

Anyway, feeling a bit better lately so I'm going to try to build that hot wire cutter this weekend or so.


_____________________________

If you believe in Global Warming then shut your mouth. All that hot air is warming up the planet, remember?

(in reply to Fisher)
       Post #: 131

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/13/2006 9:55:39 PM   
Fisher



Posts: 614
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: Fort Richardson, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Critter,

Loosing SO What #1 was a fine experience. An absolute vertical ascent into the ground. I will post pictures soon.

The Aero Ace is a lot of fun and flies forever on that little battery. I bought it for my son. OK that was the excuse. Lately the electronics have been cutting out a lot. But, fly it in no wind and man is it a lot of fun. Well worth the cash.

Now you can get a BP-21 with esc even cheaper at $40 plus shipping or $12 for the motor. Check out the Market section of RCUniverse.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/category.cfm?catID=25



lckstrk,

Please post pictures. I am also interested in weight like Critterhunter mentioned.

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 132

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/13/2006 10:57:52 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Fisher, good deal on the BP21...Is that with the BP30 amp speed control? I've got three BP21s and two BP30 amp speed controls right now. The first two BP21s took a lot of punishment due to my mistakes (overtorking the set screw and blowing bearings, ripping out the 3 motor wires when the motor came loose from the mount, overheating, etc...) but these thinks keep on ticking. I re-built one of the first two motors with a new shaft and bearings and had to re-solder the three motor wires directly to the windings as they popped out of the nylon collar solder points. The motor still works great despite my abuse. The other is sitting there waiting for a re-build. It also needs a new shaft, bearings, and some creative solder work to re-attach the three wires via the windings where they come up to the solder points on the nylon collar...but I'm sure it'll work fine if I take the time to fix it. The third motor is working like a champ on the Stryker and I haven't got around to destroying it's new-like condition yet. The BP30 speed controls also are quality. The first one heated up some much that the heat shrink melted away from it (when I was experiencing a short in the motor wires in mid-air and had to keep reseting the throttle to nurse the plane back). Yet, it keeps on kicking. That's the other important thing to do...remove the motor from the mounting plate and put some glue on the surface of the plate so it doesn't conduct should one of the three wires touch it. The motor and speed control really can't be beat price wise and the performance is second to none unless you want to spend a LOT of money for a motor with higher performance.

Yea, I'd also like to hear more details on the build with the pink foam (Owens Corning?) and what other material you used. That stuff should be a lot more bullet proof than the foam specified in the plans.


_____________________________

If you believe in Global Warming then shut your mouth. All that hot air is warming up the planet, remember?

(in reply to Fisher)
       Post #: 133

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/14/2006 8:45:46 AM   
Espresso-Outfitters


 

Posts: 196
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: Tacoma, WA, USA
Status: offline 		The pink foam is what I have to use outside of the white for all local puchases, it's dense, but not so much that it affects weight dramatically considering the power trains we are using. It's foam, so is brittle, but is alot easer to work with the the other, haven't even tried blue yet, have no direct access to it, will be using dupron and FFF next, I like it all, each has their own merits, and in fact, should all be incorporated in all arf's combining strenghts in their respective areas. I recently picked up some soft, heavy craft foam, this will make awsome leading edge material since it will give and spring back to original shape.

To keep in the free foam section topic in tact, I asked critterhunter to build me one, I have no time to do this stuff at present, I guess I should just post it to the thread directly, PM me if you can deliver.

(in reply to critterhunter)
       Post #: 134

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/15/2006 6:58:51 AM   
Fisher



Posts: 614
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: Fort Richardson, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Here is the carnage.

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(in reply to Espresso-Outfitters)
       Post #: 135

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/15/2006 9:26:42 PM   
Fisher



Posts: 614
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: Fort Richardson, AK, USA
Status: offline 		Just found what looks like a good deal on 3 cell 8C LiPo batteries. These do not have a high discharge (~16 amps) but they look to be good quality and the price is $21 each when you purchase 2 packs. They even come with a balancing lead and a pre-installed Dean's Ultra plug. I might have to try one. Heck between the $40 BP-21 with 15 AMP ESC and a $21 LiPo. There is little reason not to go brushless in all your planes. Especially a light weight Foamy.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_35&products_id=68

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=490095

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< Message edited by Fisher -- 3/15/2006 9:41:14 PM >

(in reply to Fisher)
       Post #: 136

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! C... - 3/15/2006 10:39:45 PM   
critterhunter



Posts: 2542
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Brook Park, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Fisher....I bet you could fix So #1 with your eyes closed...And that's probably how you were flying it to cause the damage. Seriously, doesn't look beyond repair but seeing how you put together #2 so quick and easy I probably would have done the same thing. After all, that's why we (you) built this foamie...Something quick, easy, and inexpensive to make. You could always do a little test bedding with #1...Cut the wing length down and see how much faster and more agile it makes the plane, etc.

Hey, nice find on those lipos! Just remember, 16 amps is the draw of the BP21 on a 3 cell lipo using a 7x6 prop. Since you are using a 7x4 (?), that should cut the amp draw down a bit (how many amps is the 7x4 drawing?) but you are probably still pushing near the limits of the lipo. Also, is 16 amps the constant amp draw ability of that lipo or is that burst? If not, what is the burst rate? If it's somewhere near 20 amps and you're 7x4 is drawing around 12 or 14 amps WOT you might be able to use them without being hard on those lipos. Can't beat that price for a 2000ma lipo, though. Heck, it's only $5 or $10 more than one Dymond 2000ma 10C lipo and you are getting two. Balance tabs and deans ultras already installed also make it a nice choice as the Dymond comes with neither a plug or balance tab...just two wires to solder too but are good quality. Hmmm.....I'm using a Celectra 1 to 3 cell lipo charger. I really like it as it's compact and has numerous safety features but no balancing system. You'd probably know this better than me...The way I understand it there are two ways to go about balancing. One is a charger that balances as it charges. The other is method to hitch a little dongle to the tab that will draw down all three cells to the same level of discharge so they all are in the same level when you begin the charging process. I'd expect these devices should be fairly cheap if they are just used to discharge to the right level. Have any links or info on those? By the way, the only other company (besides the one you just showed) that had cheaper lipos than Dymond was somebody on Ebay. I think these packs were called PollyQuests or PollyPacks or something like that. Did you check into those?

Yep, the advent of lower prices on lipos and brushless motors by at least a few companies if you know where to look have really made them the premium choice for park flyers. A big improvement over the weight and performance of brushed motors and nimhs. It's also the death bell for gas planes. Sure, they'll still be around but fast going the way of control line planes.

Let us know how well these lipos work for you. Interested to know how hot they get after a full WOT flight and what amp you are drawing.


< Message edited by critterhunter -- 3/15/2006 10:41:20 PM >

_____________________________

If you believe in Global Warming then shut your mouth. All that hot air is warming up the planet, remember?

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