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What is the best first biplane? - 11/5/2005 5:42:43 PM   
bigedmustafa



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I'm interested in getting a reasonably priced .40 sized biplane ARF together over the winter, and was wondering if anybody had some good suggestions. The two I've been looking at the most are the Thunder Tiger Tiger Bipe and the World Models Ultimate .40 If you've flown either of these planes I'd appreciate comments and opinions regarding their flight characteristics as well as any power recommendations you might have. I'd probably go with a .54 4-stroke for either plane unless told otherwise.

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/6/2005 12:52:03 AM   
tonystro


 

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biged,

I was under the impression the Tiger Bipe was no longer available, but if you can get one I would think you would like it for 'sport flying.' The .54 4-C should be plenty of power, but might require some weight added near the tail to balance at CG. Prop clearance may be an issue, but repalcing the stock main wheels with large diameter would solve that. I have no experience with th Ultimate .40, yet.

Last year I bought and flew a Tiger Bipe ARF, with a Magnum .40 2-C. I left the wheel pants off (always do) and changed to 2 3/4 inch mains for better handling on our grass field. I had plenty of power at our altitude (100'), not unlimited vertical, but scale-like takeoffs from our grass field at about 3/4 throttle. The four-stroke's torque should offset for Omaha's slightly higher altitude (I grew up in the corn country 150 miles to the west). From my point of view Tiger Bipe flew nicely at half throttle in level flight, so only used more than that for up lines, loops, etc. Slow flight controlability was good, with landing speed barely faster than an 'Alpha' trainer. Loops of 40-50 feet diameter were easy, with full throttle until 'over the top.' Altitude gains of 50 -70 during Stall Turn, and until 'fall off' during vertical rolls. Reasonable response from the ailerons (bottom wing only) using the suggested settings. Like most bipes it does not do axial rolls, but has slight variation in altitude as Elevator is definitely required (with suggested CG) during rolls, as well when inverted. Also like most bipes, it loses speed quickly when trottle is reduced. For landings I could take my pick of 'wheel landing' or 'three-point.' However, had to make "very" smooth transition to 'nose up' for a 3-pt, or it wanted to balloon slightly. I had a lot of fun with the Tiger Bipe.

After about 30 flights I sold it to an acquaintance who 'needed a training biplane', and went back to flying my Saito 150 powered, Super Stearman.

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/6/2005 5:29:09 AM   
Ed Cregger


 

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From: Ringgold, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tonystro

biged,

I was under the impression the Tiger Bipe was no longer available, but if you can get one I would think you would like it for 'sport flying.' The .54 4-C should be plenty of power, but might require some weight added near the tail to balance at CG. Prop clearance may be an issue, but repalcing the stock main wheels with large diameter would solve that. I have no experience with th Ultimate .40, yet.

Last year I bought and flew a Tiger Bipe ARF, with a Magnum .40 2-C. I left the wheel pants off (always do) and changed to 2 3/4 inch mains for better handling on our grass field. I had plenty of power at our altitude (100'), not unlimited vertical, but scale-like takeoffs from our grass field at about 3/4 throttle. The four-stroke's torque should offset for Omaha's slightly higher altitude (I grew up in the corn country 150 miles to the west). From my point of view Tiger Bipe flew nicely at half throttle in level flight, so only used more than that for up lines, loops, etc. Slow flight controlability was good, with landing speed barely faster than an 'Alpha' trainer. Loops of 40-50 feet diameter were easy, with full throttle until 'over the top.' Altitude gains of 50 -70 during Stall Turn, and until 'fall off' during vertical rolls. Reasonable response from the ailerons (bottom wing only) using the suggested settings. Like most bipes it does not do axial rolls, but has slight variation in altitude as Elevator is definitely required (with suggested CG) during rolls, as well when inverted. Also like most bipes, it loses speed quickly when trottle is reduced. For landings I could take my pick of 'wheel landing' or 'three-point.' However, had to make "very" smooth transition to 'nose up' for a 3-pt, or it wanted to balloon slightly. I had a lot of fun with the Tiger Bipe.

After about 30 flights I sold it to an acquaintance who 'needed a training biplane', and went back to flying my Saito 150 powered, Super Stearman.


---------------------------------------

I have a Global Ultimate Biplane ARF in the box that is in the que to be assembled. I hear it is supposed to be quite a performer.

Although it is advertised and sized as a .40 to .50 powered model (two-stroke), lots of folks are flying them with Magnum .91 four-strokes. The idea is that this model needs lots of nose weight to balance properly, so why not carry the weight in extra engine?

My only gripe with the ARF is the color of the covering. Yech! But whatcha gonna do if you don't feel like building and covering your own? <G>

My first biplane was a Balsa USA Phaeton powered by a Super Tigre S.40K two-stroke. I see that the Phaeton II is still being made. The original was a great flying model.


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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/7/2005 3:55:46 AM   
bigedmustafa



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tonystro

biged,

I was under the impression the Tiger Bipe was no longer available, but if you can get one I would think you would like it for 'sport flying.'


The Tiger Bipe survived Ace's recent web site update, so it's still a current model. eHobbies shows it as being in stock, but that probably isn't a super reliable indicator of the facts. Ace dropped some other ARFs that hadn't been available for a while like the Tiger Sport and the Tiger Trainer .25, they're no longer on the website. That's why I'm comfortable guessing the Tiger Bipe is still available.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

My first biplane was a Balsa USA Phaeton powered by a Super Tigre S.40K two-stroke. I see that the Phaeton II is still being made. The original was a great flying model.


I actually considered building a bipe kit of somekind. I don't feel like I have anywhere near enough building experience to put one together yet. I'd heard that SIG and Great Planes are really easy kits to build, but I hadn't heard anything about Balsa USA kits. Are they brainless enough for a complete building novice to attempt?

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/7/2005 5:42:10 AM   
Volfy



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The Sig Sundancer 50 should be a good sport bipe.

I just bought the big Sundancer and it is a gorgeous and very well built ARF. Typical Sig.

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/7/2005 11:07:40 PM   
mrbigg



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the Sig looks nice to me.

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/8/2005 2:01:11 AM   
Ed Cregger


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigedmustafa


quote:

ORIGINAL: tonystro

biged,

I was under the impression the Tiger Bipe was no longer available, but if you can get one I would think you would like it for 'sport flying.'


The Tiger Bipe survived Ace's recent web site update, so it's still a current model. eHobbies shows it as being in stock, but that probably isn't a super reliable indicator of the facts. Ace dropped some other ARFs that hadn't been available for a while like the Tiger Sport and the Tiger Trainer .25, they're no longer on the website. That's why I'm comfortable guessing the Tiger Bipe is still available.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

My first biplane was a Balsa USA Phaeton powered by a Super Tigre S.40K two-stroke. I see that the Phaeton II is still being made. The original was a great flying model.


I actually considered building a bipe kit of somekind. I don't feel like I have anywhere near enough building experience to put one together yet. I'd heard that SIG and Great Planes are really easy kits to build, but I hadn't heard anything about Balsa USA kits. Are they brainless enough for a complete building novice to attempt?




The original Balsa USA Phaeton bipe was fairly simple. It had to be, I built and flew it! <G>

I haven't seen the kit of the Phaeton II, but I would be surprised if you couldn't do a good job of building one. Sometimes I am tempted to pick up the kit before it disappears. Every once in a while I get this weird urge to glue balsa together. Kits are nice for that.

So far, the Balsa USA kits that I have built have been easy and enjoyable to construct. Both have been great flyers. I wouldn't put them in the ease of construction of the Great Planes kits, but they are still good. I never liked Sig kits because of their design philosophy, but lots of others do, so they must be good too.


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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/8/2005 2:21:14 AM   
desmobob



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigedmustafa

I'm interested in getting a reasonably priced .40 sized biplane ARF together over the winter, and was wondering if anybody had some good suggestions. The two I've been looking at the most are the Thunder Tiger Tiger Bipe and the World Models Ultimate .40 If you've flown either of these planes I'd appreciate comments and opinions regarding their flight characteristics as well as any power recommendations you might have. I'd probably go with a .54 4-stroke for either plane unless told otherwise.


My first bipe was a SIG Ultimate Fun Fly; a profile Ultimate. It was impressive to me because it could take off, land and fly in a tame manner on low rates (or with lots of expo), but could also be a total blast for tearing up the sky. It flew great in the wind. Because of it's compact size, it could be transported easily to the field already assembled in the back seat of my car.

Because of its flying qualities and convenience, I fell in love and it quickly became my most-flown model. I flew it with a Thunder Tiger .46 Pro with Tower muffler. I always wanted to try mounting my Saito .56 but never got around to it before I crashed it hard. It sustained that borderline kind of damage where it would be a lot of work to rebuild, but it looks a little too intact to toss in the trash. So... it sits in the shop, waiting for me to get in the right mood to try and resurrect it.

It only comes in a kit, but with its simple wings and profile fuselage, it's an easy build. I think you would really enjoy it.

I have looked hard at The World Models Ultimate 40 too. It seems a little short, but the price is right and my experience with four other World Models ARFs has been very positive. I've heard some bad reports on Thunder Tiger ARFs but have no experience with them myself. (I sure love their Pro series .40 and .46 engines.)

Good flying,
desmobob




< Message edited by desmobob -- 11/8/2005 2:40:25 AM >

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/8/2005 11:22:16 PM   
mrbigg



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Did somebody say Sig Ultimate????????????

The Sig kit is pretty straight forward to build. Only about eighty bucks. OMP makes a nice 60 to 90 size profile Ultimate.
I seen on your profile that you've got about a years experience with planes. Even with only a year's experience, does not mean that don't have the abilities to build from a kit. Only you can answer that question. But, most kits have real good instructions that walk you through every step of the way. The Sig Ultimate instructions were superb. Plus you have it made, your hooked up to RCU!!! If you ever have a problem during building, we'll be here to help. That's why I love this place. Take a look a the Proverb below!

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< Message edited by mrbigg -- 11/8/2005 11:32:34 PM >


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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/8/2005 11:32:03 PM   
desmobob



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Where did you get that miniature child?

Mama mia! That's a big Ultimate. Nice engine... think it will pull it?

That one sure won't fit in the back seat of the car, assembled....

Good flying,
desmobob

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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/8/2005 11:35:04 PM   
mrbigg



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No, it won't even fit in the back of the truck assembled! Check the build thread on it in the profile forum. Feel free to offer some tips and advice.
Yeah it should pull it. ZDZ 120, all up weight about 26lbs.

< Message edited by mrbigg -- 11/8/2005 11:36:18 PM >


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RE: What is the best first biplane? - 11/11/2005 1:13:10 PM   
Don M.



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The Sig Ultimate Fun Fly gets my vote. I have had one for 8 years and another NIB in the attic, when that one is worn out ( soon now ). It started life with an OS .46 2 - stroke and that lasted 1 day ( I hated the 2 - stroke in it ). I pulled that and put a Saito .56 in it. That lasted 5 years and now I have a YS .63 in it ( absolutely a blast ) can you say unlimited vertical and straight out of the hand launches. I am now considering electric for it if someone can tell me what e - power will give me the same performance as the YS.

One thing for sure - make your engine very realiable, YOU DO NOT WANT A FLAME OUT WITH THIS PLANE, it glides like a man hole cover, but man what fun.

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RE: What is the best first biplane? -