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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/8/2005 1:40:41 PM   
can773



Posts: 1655
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kenair

Not a valid comparison, auto insurance will repair or replace your vehicle, MAAC will not repair or replace your model. I pay $185 to insure my travel trailer for coverage, that includes damage, theft, liability and replacement to $16,000, there more accidents involving travel trailer than model airplanes so for $185 I am getting value.



The bulk of that $1000 is PL/PD...around $650-700 I think and if you are at fault in an accident and only carry PL/PD you are SOL. No fixed car...no nothing. The insurance is only to protect your ass for liability and property damage....if you are not at fault and the other driver does not carry collision then your insurance pays LOL....oh real great there....now you have a claim LOL.

I only hold collision because I drive a 2005 and 2006 vehicle, if I drove a POS car worth $500 then I wouldnt bother like many others.

Valid enough for you Ken.

MAAC insurance is dirt cheap compared to car insurance.


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Chad Northeast

(in reply to kenair)
       Post #: 26

RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/8/2005 2:38:10 PM   
kenair


 

Posts: 493
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		The auto insurance in manitoba is no fault - so you can be at fault and still be covered for liability and repair to your auto.

Whether maac insurance is dirt cheap, the consumers will make that call as there are may ways you can compare insurance and rates.

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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/8/2005 3:17:13 PM   
can773



Posts: 1655
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kenair

The auto insurance in manitoba is no fault - so you can be at fault and still be covered for liability and repair to your auto.

Whether maac insurance is dirt cheap, the consumers will make that call as there are may ways you can compare insurance and rates.


Ug....this is not that difficult Ken....

If you have collision in AB you can be at fault and have your car fixed as well....or you can be not at fault and have it fixed....but you can say no to collision and only run PL/PD, which is basically what MAAC does. For this coverage MAAC insurance is very cheap comparitively....there is no spin you can place to change that fact. Anyone who has a car that is worth fixing will have collision insurance...you would be crazy not to. Its the least expensive part of it, the liability and property damage insurance is the costly part as the insurance company could be on the hook for a million bucks in a serious claim....while its going to cost them what $2500 to fix your car in a fender bender.

The only difference is MAAC insurance is not legally mandated whereas auto insurance is, PL/PD is the minimum you must carry, unless you lease then further restrictions are imposed.

Beyond that to get the auto insurance rates I have I have to be "group insured"....just so happens that I can do that because of my professional membership as an engineer......before that I was nearly $2000/yr for the same insurance....again the bulk of that being the minimum PL/PD that you must carry. As I said MAAC insurance is a good deal no matter how you slice it.


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Chad Northeast

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       Post #: 28

RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/8/2005 9:59:51 PM   
Drexus



Posts: 153
Joined: 6/14/2004
From: Almonte, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Cost of insurance and insurance policies aside, what might happen to MAAC is a real thing. I'm not sure how I missed it... but the comment made earlier - somehow escaped my eye. (I must get to bed earlier) "We have two active r/c clubs in our area that do not require maac nor are they maac clubs." This is an accident waiting to happen. Not so much that someone will get a plane planted in the hood of their car, but this sort of recklessness will cost those who fly at a MAAC certified field. If someone was badly hurt due to non-safe flying practices of a non MAAC field, then the pressure goes on all of us for insurance costs.

So let's say that at the renegade field someone loses control of their plane because they didn't stick to MAAC guidelines for altitude or preflight radio checking. So the plane goes off toward town and crashes into a guy sitting in his swimming pool. The poor guy is hit in the back with a... 1/4 scale Extra 330. The guy is paralysed for life and sues the bananas off the pilot. Only the pilot doesn't have insurance. Then the guy has to go to court to defend himself saying it wasn't his fault the plane went out of control. The whole mess hits the papers and the 6:00 news. A year after the fuss... we notice our MAAC insurance cost triples. Why? Because the insurance industry starts to think we are all a bunch a crazy pilots who fly questionable equipment.

Whether it's true or not, we get hit with bad publicity. And that will affect the hobby in more ways then we are aware of. Foamies are in that classification so far as I'm concerned. As it was mentioned before, if technology progresses with the new desired manufacturing styles, then we will start to see much bigger foamies. True, the difference between a meat-tray foam plane and a 60" formed P51 with an 800W motor, will not be as easy to pass off under the same risk category. So we will eventually see the bigger stuff at the ball park.

And yes, there is no possible way that MAAC would offer coverage to someone with just a foam plane. Eventually the pilot will fly something else during the summer. So with foamies being the light-hearted fun toy of the soccer field, how will first time pilots know the difference between the 100gram meat-tray and the 4 pound P51 that will inevitably show up? If this is where the industry is going, we should start asking if MAAC is in decline.



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Ken Charron
Senior Product Designer

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 29

RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/8/2005 10:06:07 PM   
reo


 

Posts: 231
Joined: 12/15/2003
From: Millet, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		"MAAC is mainly a insurance provider - whether the MAAC board can figure that out, we'll see, until then maac will continue to provide fluff that the majority of their customers have not requested."

Although not all will agree with you here, Ken, this is really what it comes down to. Cut to the chase, provide the basics and forget the 'fluff'.

R

(in reply to kenair)
       Post #: 30

RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/8/2005 10:24:58 PM   
ronnieo1



Posts: 74
Joined: 2/12/2003
From: Royal Oak, MI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drexus

Cost of insurance and insurance policies aside, what might happen to MAAC is a real thing. I'm not sure how I missed it... but the comment made earlier - somehow escaped my eye. (I must get to bed earlier) "We have two active r/c clubs in our area that do not require maac nor are they maac clubs." This is an accident waiting to happen. Not so much that someone will get a plane planted in the hood of their car, but this sort of recklessness will cost those who fly at a MAAC certified field. If someone was badly hurt due to non-safe flying practices of a non MAAC field, then the pressure goes on all of us for insurance costs.

So let's say that at the renegade field someone loses control of their plane because they didn't stick to MAAC guidelines for altitude or preflight radio checking. So the plane goes off toward town and crashes into a guy sitting in his swimming pool. The poor guy is hit in the back with a... 1/4 scale Extra 330. The guy is paralysed for life and sues the bananas off the pilot. Only the pilot doesn't have insurance. Then the guy has to go to court to defend himself saying it wasn't his fault the plane went out of control. The whole mess hits the papers and the 6:00 news. A year after the fuss... we notice our MAAC insurance cost triples. Why? Because the insurance industry starts to think we are all a bunch a crazy pilots who fly questionable equipment.

Whether it's true or not, we get hit with bad publicity. And that will affect the hobby in more ways then we are aware of. Foamies are in that classification so far as I'm concerned. As it was mentioned before, if technology progresses with the new desired manufacturing styles, then we will start to see much bigger foamies. True, the difference between a meat-tray foam plane and a 60" formed P51 with an 800W motor, will not be as easy to pass off under the same risk category. So we will eventually see the bigger stuff at the ball park.

And yes, there is no possible way that MAAC would offer coverage to someone with just a foam plane. Eventually the pilot will fly something else during the summer. So with foamies being the light-hearted fun toy of the soccer field, how will first time pilots know the difference between the 100gram meat-tray and the 4 pound P51 that will inevitably show up? If this is where the industry is going, we should start asking if MAAC is in decline.



I wholeheartedly agree........the clowns running a club with no MAAC are only asking for it.......right down to the last executive and the guy cutting the grass...a$$es to the highest degree!!!
Eventually a guy with a foamy will get tired of flying the styro around and will move up to the real thing..and he will join a club and become a MAAC member. I wouldn't worry about a claim ever on a foamy...in all the ten-hundreds of flights that occur in one year in North America, it would be silly to think that a devastating accident would occur with a foamy. Get real!!!


< Message edited by ronnieo1 -- 11/8/2005 10:25:50 PM >

(in reply to Drexus)
       Post #: 31

RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/9/2005 4:58:05 PM   
Drexus



Posts: 153
Joined: 6/14/2004
From: Almonte, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: reo
"MAAC is mainly a insurance provider - whether the MAAC board can figure that out, we'll see, until then mac will continue to provide fluff that the majority of their customers have not requested."

Although not all will agree with you here, Ken, this is really what it comes down to. Cut to the chase, provide the basics and forget the 'fluff'.

R

Reo, insurance in only part of the deal. Who sets up guidelines on how to setup a safe flight line? Who lays down a protocol on how to setup, start, taxi, and fly your plane? The rules and regulations in operating a model plane did not come out of thin air. We all use a frequency board, do a radio checks, refrain from flying over the pits, and get trained by club staff before we are let loose (among many other things we follow). If MAAC is just an insurance channel, then where would we be? Probably without insurance. Because we would see accidents all the time. Foolish individuals flying over houses with questionable gear, and little understanding of what to do when 4 pilots are flying at the same time.... it would be as if all MAAC fields we renegade fields. Nobody taking any consideration for the safety of others. And with that... claims would be constant. No insurance company would touch MAAC, and MAAC would disappear over night. I do agree that MAAC should cut the fluff out of SOME things. Sponsoring teams or events is pointless in my perspective. I won't get into that here though.

quote:

I wholeheartedly agree........the clowns running a club with no MAAC are only asking for it.......right down to the last executive and the guy cutting the grass...a$$es to the highest degree!!! Eventually a guy with a foamy will get tired of flying the styro around and will move up to the real thing..and he will join a club and become a MAAC member. I wouldn't worry about a claim ever on a foamy...in all the ten-hundreds of flights that occur in one year in North America, it would be silly to think that a devastating accident would occur with a foamy. Get real!!!

Ronnie. What is the ratio of ARFs to Kits in the market? Pick up any model airplane magazine and circle all the model planes that say "Kit". after that, dig up a magazine from 10 years ago and do the same. Like I said earlier, "If this is where the industry is going" - and it changes all the time - who here would say the industry won't drop ARFs (made of expensive wood), and start producing large foamies? If you say no, can I quote you on that? My analogy of the guy getting hit by an Extra 330... was a coment on the effects of renegade fields. If the industry DOES go the direction of larger foamies, then I would be able to argue that a serious accident with a foamie could happen. But since I didn't make that suggestion, I will "Stay Real".

Lets not forget how much time it takes to make an ARF vs. how many seconds it takes to pop out a foamie. If they can make it cheaper... they will, and there is nothing you or I can do or say to stop them... and thats why we have more ARFs then kits.


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Ken Charron
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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/9/2005 9:11:12 PM   
reo


 

Posts: 231
Joined: 12/15/2003
From: Millet, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		"Reo, insurance in only part of the deal. Who sets up guidelines on how to setup a safe flight line? Who lays down a protocol on how to setup, start, taxi, and fly your plane?"

Ken, I think it is fair to say that 'rules' go along with having valid insurance and become one entity as far as the organiztion is concerned. ...Ron

(in reply to Drexus)
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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/11/2005 11:14:31 PM   
2thelmt



Posts: 102
Joined: 12/28/2001
From: Acton, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: reo
In our area we have two major clubs (grass fields, basic club houses) that have $60 annual dues, $100 initiation fees for the first timer


CRIPES AMIGHTY! Where do these people get off, that's in line with clubs around Toronto who are paying thousands of dollars to lease 10 acres. Surely costs are more than amply covered with those fees..... where does the rest of the monsy go?



We get off because we need to cover expenses. Like grass cutting, fertilizer, field rent, club meetings.
How about money in the bank to cover possible relocation???
Fields don't last forever.
$60.00 a year is VERY inexpensive.



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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/12/2005 2:20:32 AM   
Drexus



Posts: 153
Joined: 6/14/2004
From: Almonte, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: reo

"Reo, insurance in only part of the deal. Who sets up guidelines on how to setup a safe flight line? Who lays down a protocol on how to setup, start, taxi, and fly your plane?"

Ken, I think it is fair to say that 'rules' go along with having valid insurance and become one entity as far as the organiztion is concerned. ...Ron


Very true.


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Ken Charron
Senior Product Designer

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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/12/2005 2:34:39 AM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Our club membership for 2006 is $100.

(in reply to Drexus)
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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/12/2005 1:27:32 PM   
kevin mcgrath


 

Posts: 739
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Sault Ste Marie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Smaller membership clubs have to spread the fixed costs over a smaller base which ups the dues.Dues at my club just went to $75.
Areas like N Ont have real estate conditions that often allow semipermanent field locations,of ten in cooperation with local industry or government.
The other extreme in Canada has to be the GTA,where whenever I visit seems to have another 1000 acres of prime farm/recreational land covered by brick boxes and pavement and no field is permanent and a plan B always has to be in place.


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MAAC 6401L,CD.

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RE: Industry to rub out MAAC? - 11/20/2005 9:02:45 PM   
west6008


 

Posts: 148
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Morell, PE, CANADA
Status: offline 		I was reading through the comments about the park flyers causing frequency problems with
established RC fields.
A non-issue.
I have several park flyers, and 99.999% of the time its too ___ ___ windy to fly them!!

(in reply to Jim_McIntyre)
       Post #: 38