RE: Sig Four-Star 60  
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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/22/2006 4:53:51 PM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 910
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Got a question about CG. Should this plane have the same characteristics when balancing as most other planes do? What I mean is when I have it on the CG machine and you push down on either end, providing it's close to level, it should come back to its nuetral position and rest there, correct? Well on mine you it doesn't "rest" in one spot, if you touch the nose or tail it will fall to that end without coming back to its nuetral position. Hopefully you understand what i'm talking about.

I'm using the RCV.91 CD w/ 14oz tank, dual aileron servos and it weights just under 8lbs. It flies great it just has some really bad tendancies on landing. This thing will bounce down the runway no matter how slow or fast you bring it in. I've added and removed wieght to try and help this but nothing works. I think it has to do with the whole CG problem, just not sure what to make of it.

I'm not new to planes by no means and flown all sorts of planes from trainers to warbirds and haven't had this trouble before getting a plane to balance without falling off the balancer or bad landing characteristics. It almost feels as if there is to much wieght centered around the CG area causing it to tip the way it does, sounds weird but that's the feel it gives. Any ideas?

Thanks Shane

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/22/2006 7:04:56 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1194
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Shane-

Are you doing this with the plane upside down on the CG machine? That's how I balanced mine, and it sits perfectly level and still. Now, that's not to say that it won't go one way or the other if you rock it too far. Remember that the masses inside the plane (engine, battery, servos, etc.) get closer to the desired CG point when you rock the plane away from level, (cause they travel in an arc about the pivot point.) so the CG will change according to how far away from level you are, and the plane will accelerate off the machine if left to it's own devices, even if perfectly balanced.

The only time mine bounces on landing is if my rate of descent or touchdown speed is too high. I always try for a 3 point landing, and the worst I get under that condition is a very slight bounce. I just hold the elevator wherever it was and it settles back down. Don't be tempted to "dump" the elevator you were holding at touchdown. That's a good way to dig the nose in, and is something a primary flight instructor in full size will smack you for.

Bob

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Bob Hunt

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/22/2006 11:44:19 PM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 910
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		LOL, I know the feeling with those instructors. I think I did balance mine right side up, I knew better but was following a fellow builders advise. That may be why i had to actually pinpoint the balance point and hold it there or it would topple off forward or back.

Just to be sure of myself, most low wing planes are balanced upside down and high wings right side up? Thats how I've always done it anyway. Thanks for the help..

Shane

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       Post #: 78

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/23/2006 12:28:32 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 17462
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I mounted my landing gear with the tapered side towards the front so the wheels would be farther back. I could touch down on the mains with the tail high without the plane bouncing back up. Didn't tip over either.

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       Post #: 79

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/23/2006 2:29:16 AM   
WorldTraveler



Posts: 45
Joined: 11/11/2003
From: Enid, OK, USA
Status: offline 		I've had two 4* 60's, and i took the items on the decal sheet that is a circle w/a plus sign in it and mounted them on the side of the fuselage, one at the fwd of recommended CG, one at the aft one. then, balanaced the planes to the center area. This resulted in a slightly nose heavy balance when flying, but the airplane balanced level. When I wanted to explore other areas of flight, I moved the CG slightly aft, which resulted in a faster response to the flight controls in pitch. Unfortunately, the demise of these excellent aircraft was MY fault, not the plane. Presently, I'm putting a Venture 60 together, from Bruce Tharpe. it's easier to see these markings when looking under the wing, and not having to look up, but at the side of the fuse.

Clint

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       Post #: 80

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/23/2006 4:00:59 AM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 910
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		After rechecking mine upside down, it turned out that it was still nose heavy. In total with the RCV.91 and 3" tru-turn spinner it needed 1 1/2 oz to balance it out properly.(had to add another 3/4 oz after checking it right) This would explain why it would drop the nose so drastically under half throttle, when at landing speeds a little down on the gimble was neede to keep it from trying to lawn dart into the runway. lol I thought something was afoot after flying the 4* 40 we had as it would almost land itself. Can't wait to get this back up and try it again.


Shane

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       Post #: 81

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 8/23/2006 2:40:54 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1194
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I think you've got it, now. Low wing= balance upside down. High wing= right side up. Usually, anyway. Depends on where all the masses are relative to the wing location.

I've got my 4*60 balanced on the rear edge of the main spar. (Aft limit, according to the plans.) Flys real nice, land or sea.

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 9/4/2006 2:18:15 AM   
SMITTY1820


 

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Waterford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Hello Gang,

I have read alot of things about the Four Star on this thread, Alot of things have been helpful such as changing out the pushrods, axles, engine selection, and such. Can anyone help me on either purchasing or building a cowl for this plane?

(in reply to Pit-Viper 1)
       Post #: 83

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 9/4/2006 12:54:37 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1194
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I have a Precision Fiberglass cowl that I bought for mine, and decided not to use. It's new and untouched, and looks kinda like an Extra. If you want it, I'll let you have it for $15.00, which is half the new price. You catch the shipping.

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< Message edited by Mustang Fever -- 9/4/2006 1:00:39 PM >

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 9/5/2006 9:20:58 PM   
SMITTY1820


 

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Waterford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I sent you an email - I am going to need your address so I can send you a check. Included in the email is my email address, thanks for the help.

Greg

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       Post #: 85

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 9/5/2006 11:34:36 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1194
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Greg:

Your email hasn't come through, yet, anyway. I sent you one with my address through the forum. I live in Cadillac. We're going to be in the Detroit area on the 24th of September. I could save you the shipping costs by meeting you somewhere on I-75 if you like.

sfcbhunt@hotmail.com

Thanks,

Bob

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 9/19/2006 7:56:29 PM   
FlyingGreg



Posts: 582
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		My $.02.

I'm into my second 4*60 (first one got caught by a tree). OS .91 for power but I did have a ST .60 with tuned pipe for a while. Like someone else mentioned, it was way too slimey. Mine is a kit. If you have never built the 4*60 kit, you are missing quite a pleasurable build. With the exception of the balsa spar doublers, no glue is used until the wing half is completely assembled. Then you just dribble a little thin CA over the joints. All laser cut and everything fits great. The fuse and tail feathers are conventional build. the 60 is different from the 40 the way the wing is built, and I don't know about the 120. For my flying though the 60 is best. I agree with changing out the tail wheel to a Sullivan and the pushrods, although I am using stock pushrods in mine, I want to switch. Great flat spins and KE flight. Floats in for landing at a crawl. Hard to beat. I've had my current one for about 5 years.

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 10/2/2006 9:21:57 PM   
ziomarco


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 10/6/2005
From: , ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Flyinggreg

What prop/pitch did you use when you had the 60 in your 4 star ? I just maidened my 4 star 60 with an OS 61 SF and find the vertical very limited. I flew with an APC 12 x 6 prop.

Thanks,
Marcus

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       Post #: 88

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 10/2/2006 10:26:25 PM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 910
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Well now I just need to get my motor back and I will be set. Decided it was to plain just orange so I through some stripes on it. Want to fly it before I stripe the fuse though. Here's a few pics. Got a couple holes in the top of the wing on a dead stick into tall grass. Didn't hurt the bottom though, damndest thing.. Seems like a descent patch job..

Shane

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< Message edited by Pit-Viper 1 -- 10/2/2006 10:30:01 PM >

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 10/3/2006 12:21:36 PM