RE: Sig Four-Star 60  
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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/21/2007 5:57:35 PM   
buzzard bait


 

Posts: 1015
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Ithaca, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I'm almost finished covering mine with colored silk and clear dope. I tapered (viewed in cross section) all control surfaces with a razor plane--saves a lot of weight in the tail. Carved a balsa cowl, covered it with silk and sealed with Sig sanding sealer--light, strong, and looks nice. Setting it up with engine and radio, it now weighs 6 lbs 9 oz. There's still some more paint and odds and ends, but I'm sure it will come in under 7 lbs ready to fly.

O.S. 70 FS, stock landing gear turned backwards with a fairing added, put a sweeping curve into the last wing bay (eliminating the heavy "lite ply" tips), curved the rudder contours (cutting a little area at the top and increasing quite a bit at bottom), cut down the canopy toward the front so it sits lower to eliminate dorky look, super light foam tail wheel--may just use steerable music wire skid; so far plane balances easily at the rearward CG mark with battery in center section.

Nice to hear people's mods. I've seen others bounce on landings and guessed it would be better to reverse the gear--glad to hear that confirmed. I'm hoping stock gear will suffice because of the low all-up weight.

Jim

< Message edited by buzzard bait -- 1/21/2007 6:00:15 PM >

(in reply to Darklotus)
       Post #: 101

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/21/2007 8:49:09 PM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 911
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

I'm almost finished covering mine with colored silk and clear dope. I tapered (viewed in cross section) all control surfaces with a razor plane--saves a lot of weight in the tail. Carved a balsa cowl, covered it with silk and sealed with Sig sanding sealer--light, strong, and looks nice. Setting it up with engine and radio, it now weighs 6 lbs 9 oz. There's still some more paint and odds and ends, but I'm sure it will come in under 7 lbs ready to fly.

O.S. 70 FS, stock landing gear turned backwards with a fairing added, put a sweeping curve into the last wing bay (eliminating the heavy "lite ply" tips), curved the rudder contours (cutting a little area at the top and increasing quite a bit at bottom), cut down the canopy toward the front so it sits lower to eliminate dorky look, super light foam tail wheel--may just use steerable music wire skid; so far plane balances easily at the rearward CG mark with battery in center section.

Nice to hear people's mods. I've seen others bounce on landings and guessed it would be better to reverse the gear--glad to hear that confirmed. I'm hoping stock gear will suffice because of the low all-up weight.

Jim


Jim, was this weight in reguards to the 40 or the 60? I would love to get my 60 that lite, mine comes in right at 8lbs. That with the Saito 1.00, I am using individual servos on the ail. and a single 6v pack. This was my first build so I pretty much followed the book for the most part. Didn't replace the TD stringers with spruce or build a cowl and it still comes in at 8. I can see a couple ounces with the end bays gone. The next one will be targeted more towards weight and strength. Probably something easily overlooked on my part.


Shane

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       Post #: 102

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/21/2007 10:00:36 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 17464
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		On the landing gear - I reversed mine and also made a 1/4" plywood wedge shim tapered down to 1/16" on the back side under the landing gear. I covered the shim with Monocoat the same color as the fuselage in that area.

This made the landing gear even more towards the rear.

I was afraid that there would be a nose over problem but I didn't experience it.

You can make beautiful, main wheels first, landings with the plane and it never bounces.

I also used the Sullivan tail wheel with the spring steering. It works very nice also.

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       Post #: 103

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/22/2007 12:38:38 AM   
buzzard bait


 

Posts: 1015
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Ithaca, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Shane, yes, it is the 60. I think most of them end up around 8 lbs or over--you did well for a first build. I'm a light builder by habit, from my free flight days. But with the Saito 100 you will have plenty of power, and the Four Star has so much wing it will be a nice flyer. One guy's came out to 9 lbs and he's crazy about it. Not everybody likes light planes--there are lots of threads. But I do.

Building light is really about a lot of little things that add up. Pretty much the reverse of how planes come out heavy! I weigh the wood before I start. Any that is really heavy I replace the part with lighter wood from my stock (except toward the front where I usually don't worry about it). When I buy balsa I weigh each piece and label it on masking tape. I use a table to convert weight/size to density (lbs/cubic foot). I have an old double beam gram scale, but you can get a good electronic balance now very cheaply--try Radical RC. I use Weldbond glue, which is a white carpenter's glue--it's water based and the water evaporates, unlike epoxy. I don't try to fill gaps with glue--I try to get good fitting joints, and if I have to fill a gap I'll do it with wood slivers. I don't try to make glue filets--they don't help anyway. I'm especially careful about weight in the tail. I don't use epoxy back there, I make sure tail surfaces are light, and I don't use after market tail gear--just a music wire skid or a light tail wheel made for electrics. Really, on grass a skid works as well as a wheel and can be fully steerable. I can't detect any difference in ground handling. I use the heavier wing pieces on the port side to balance out the engine which sticks out on the starboard side. Actually my 4*60 kit had very good wood--I just replaced some of the sheeting for the fin and stab. I really take pleasure in building light and strong. We're building flying machines, not something that will sit on a shelf. That's part of the kick for me.

W8ye--thanks for the info about your gear mods. I was thinking about that, but ended up with the stock location.

Jim

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 104

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/22/2007 2:20:00 AM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 911
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Well i have access to to a couple good scales for just that purpose. I see your theory though, the 4* is already a very well built plane even if by the book, but by adding a little here and a little less there i can see where you shed some weight. Gonna have to give it a whirl and see how I come out on the next one.

Thanks alot,


Shane

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       Post #: 105

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/23/2007 3:42:35 PM   
genrcflyer


 

Posts: 18
Joined: 3/23/2005
From: Herington, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I have a 4* 60 that I got on Ebay. Came with a KB .65 Sporster that didn't have enough power for it. Put a new OS .61 SF ringed on it and it is a great sport flyer. Not a 3D airplane but a really great flyer for a first low wing trainer. Slows down to a walk to land. Once got caught in a wind wall in front of an approaching thunderstorm. Had to land at almost full throttle and hold it there while I ran out to catch it. Got a 4* 40 for my son as his first airplane. Had an OS .46 SF ABC on it that would do anything a beginner sport pilot would want. Very forgiving, great basic aerobatic performance and easy on the fuel. Died when he pulled instead of pushed while inverted about 10' off the ground in it's fourth consecutive airleron roll. Had a short memorial service with cremation afterwards.

(in reply to w8ye)
       Post #: 106

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/23/2007 4:57:26 PM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 911
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Well, the Saito has found a new home. Until it's owner wants it back, lol.. The Saito 1.00 is a rocket compared to the other .91 I had in it. Alot faster as well. Running coolpower 30% Heli blend in it w/ 14x8 APC. Not sure of the rpm, it was very cold and it was running slightly on the rich side. Pretty cool though, always wanted a plane that could roll about 10ft on the ground then nose straight up into the wild blue yonder. Gonna try a 15x4 or 15x6 APC this weekend to see if I can get a little more thrust out of it. A guy shot some video of it and I will post it once I receive it. Flying off a freinds pond (frozen) while they drove there buggies around with spiked tires, was a fun day.

Shane

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/23/2007 6:09:27 PM   
Birman


 

Posts: 423
Joined: 9/3/2006
From: Racine, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Mustang Fever. I,ve been reading this thread with great interest. Where did you buy the cowel that you sold. I'll soon be assembling a BTE Venture and I think a cowel would look cool on it.

Larry

< Message edited by Birman -- 1/23/2007 6:11:05 PM >

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 1/27/2007 1:59:01 AM   
Eagle Flyer


 

Posts: 617
Joined: 12/28/2001
From: Ida Grove, IA, USA
Status: offline 		I recently finished one here it is. The bottom of the wing and hor. stab is done in flourasant green. I have added a couple more decals in the green area in front of the canopy since this picture was taken.

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 3/10/2007 3:26:41 AM   
ggroyal1


 

Posts: 257
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Norcross, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I am putting the RCV91CD in my 4-star 60 kit, I like the purple. I modified the rudder and elevator control rods by inserting the blue and yellow golden rods into the stock black tubes(perfect fit). I read somewhere the stock contol rods would stick in high temps.

< Message edited by ggroyal1 -- 3/10/2007 3:29:22 AM >

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       Post #: 110

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 3/10/2007 4:58:33 AM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 911
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		The control rods are fine in higher temps, but when it gets cold they are way out of wack. I had the RCV.91 in my 4* 60 to start with and it is not a good motor for this plane at all. Power aside, it really doesn't fly like a 4* because of the weight of the motor. When you cut the throttle to land it will drop like a rock no matter where you put the CG on it. Trust me on this. And after you mount it you will all but have to remove the firewall to mount anything else do to the unusal dimension of this motor, other motors of it's size will not drop into the mount, it is a few mm larger width and several in length. Don't get me wrong I love my RCV but it isn't a good match for this plane, it will want to stall in turns and bounces bad on landings as well.



Shane

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 3/10/2007 6:35:05 AM   
ggroyal1


 

Posts: 257
Joined: 10/21/2005
From: Norcross, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. What planes would you recommend? I working on a GP little toni with a os91 that came off my ultra stick 60, the os91 was replaced by the os120ax and it works real good. still learning. I guess I could go with a saito 100-120? It will be this summer before I get back to the 4s kit (about 1/2 done) I ran a gallon of omega 10% thru the rcv and it semed to run good an it did not run hot. I guess it is more of a novelity.

(in reply to ggroyal1)
       Post #: 112

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 3/10/2007 6:55:00 AM   
Pit-Viper 1



Posts: 911
Joined: 9/14/2005
From: Westminster, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I think the RCV is designed more for a warbird type installation to give a scale flight characteristic, usually where nose weight is needed it works great. It's a great running motor and it's sound is quite unique. I am curently useing a Sito 1.00 in my 4* and it is a blast and floats like a 4* should and has some pretty awesome vertical. I'm not a great pilot but I have a blast with the combo. I also ended up cutting a bay off each wingtip so it shortend it 6". Didn't change the landing behavior at all, did speed up the roll rate slightly though. The next one I build I will do with little or no dihedral in the wing. Was my first kit and was a blast to build, quick and easy. Get it done when you can, you will be glad you did.


Shane

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RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 3/10/2007 1:25:53 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 17464
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I used the golden rods inside the existing tubes on my ARF. It worked real nice. Looked like it was intended that way. Real smooth.

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Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

(in reply to Pit-Viper 1)
       Post #: 114

RE: Sig Four-Star 60 - 3/10/2007 7:29:04 PM   
Pit-Viper 1