24 volt battery (Full Version)

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bigtroutdog -> 24 volt battery (11/14/2005 11:39:33 PM)

I need a 24 volt battery for an electric starter. Can i wire two 12 volt batteries. How?
Who sells a 24 v battery ( auto parts store? )
thanks



Nogyro -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 2:22:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigtroutdog

I need a 24 volt battery for an electric starter. Can i wire two 12 volt batteries. How?
Who sells a 24 v battery ( auto parts store? )
thanks



I've never seen a 24 volt battery myself, but you can wire two lawn mower batteries up to get it. Just connect the plus of one battery to the negative of the other. Then hook your starter to the remaining + and - terminals. Disconnect the batteries and charge them as seperate 12 volts.

I used the 7 amp gel cell batteries after I got tired of lugging the lawn mower batteries around. Here's a pic of what happens when the wires short out.
[:@]



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 10:58:41 AM)

Bigtroutdog,
Cheeeezze Nogyro way to scare the socks right off from him! [:D][:D]
Follow Nogyro advise and insulate the wires and you won't have that happen. It will work fine.
John



Nogyro -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 12:29:21 PM)

JNorton,

[:D] That's why I posted the picture of the fried batteries......... Nothing like standing out at the flight line flying your plane and smelling something burning. Yikes! It was my flight box. LOL Got it put out in time so all I lost was the batteries. If you use the Gel Cells, be sure to flip flop the batteries so the terminals are at opposite ends of each other. If you look at my picture, you'll see they are side by side. BTW, I only had those batts for one week. [:@] Learned my lesson.



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 3:28:24 PM)

A 20 amp fuse would have prevented that! [;)]
I agree nothing worse than a dead short and no way to disconnect the power.



Nogyro -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 6:43:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JNorton

A 20 amp fuse would have prevented that! [;)]


Fuse? What's that?[;)]



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 7:39:05 PM)

It's that little fusible link that no one ever gives a thought to until they need it! It's always too much trouble to put in or purchase - don't ask.

My brother installed a stereo in an old van. He did not use a fuse on the power amplifier. Late one night the van committed suicide! All that was left after the fire was a rusty skeleton. He was living in my apartment at the time and we both got tossed on the street. The stereo was so loud he got complaints from 3 blocks away. He only played it while I was at work. I thought of it as a sort of wierd justice as I lost the apartment and he lost the van. It did make moving a bit of a pain since all we had left for wheels was my Honda motorcycle.

Later,
John



bigtroutdog -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/15/2005 10:10:34 PM)

Thanks for the info. Will 24v do anything to the power panel? (Tower Hobbies Deluxe)



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 12:13:15 AM)

Probably blow out the glow plug source and any fuel pump you've left hooked to it. [:'(]

Disconnect the positive wire from the starter jacks. Next put the two batteries in series and wire the positive 24 volts to the starter jack. Use the midpoint connection - 12 volts - between the batteries to power the rest of the control panel. The ground connection go where the original battery ground went.

John



Omaha_RC_Flyer -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 3:50:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigtroutdog

I need a 24 volt battery for an electric starter. Can i wire two 12 volt batteries. How?
Who sells a 24 v battery ( auto parts store? )
thanks



bigtroutdog,

See attached photos on what I did for a 24V power source to start my gasser with. I bought the tool box from lowes for around $8.00. I used two standard 12V 7Ah field batteries I had on hand and I picked up the Banana jacks from radio shack.


Later,
Omaha



Nogyro -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 11:30:59 AM)

Omaha,

Nice installation. That's a whole lot safer than my set up was..... [:D] Your's gives you 12 volts or 24 volts very easily, with just adding or removing your jumper.



Omaha_RC_Flyer -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 2:23:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nogyro

Omaha,

Nice installation. That's a whole lot safer than my set up was..... [:D] Your's gives you 12 volts or 24 volts very easily, with just adding or removing your jumper.


It has come in handy a few times at the field when my glow field box battery was too low in volts. [:@] I just plug my components into each of the 12V sections (i.e. starter in #1 and fuel pump in #2) Here is a link to a field box I made using the same type of tool box.

I take it with me when I only have a small amount of time to fly. Grab and go kind of thing.[:D]

Later,
Omaha



bigtroutdog -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 4:30:07 PM)

The reason I wanted 24v is for the starter. I have a 100 Saito. I'm using a Hobico torquemaster 180. When it hits the compression stroke, it stops. Maybe I need a better starter. Any recommendations?



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 7:55:54 PM)

That starter should turn over a 100 with ease. You should not need 24 volts.

If you've backed the prop off top dead center and are still having problems, possibly the battery is low. Read the battery voltage across the terminals when you use the starter. It should remain above 12 volts. Or you have a bad connection somewhere, possibly the switch inside the starter is bad.

John



bigtroutdog -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 8:31:26 PM)

I hooked up the battery directly to the starter and the voltage (load) stays above 12. With the starter plugged into the power panel the load drops to 11.4 interesting



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 8:45:13 PM)

Are you measuring across the battery terminals or across the starter? If you are measuring across the starter the you are seeing the voltage drop across the banana jacks. It is important to get good connections either soldered or bolted on with high current devices like your starter to get repeatable readings. What does the battery measure with no load?

John



sfsjkid -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 8:53:21 PM)

I agree with John something is up with the battery. In fact my, Sullivan Hi-tork starter, which is only rated for .60 size engines will start my YS 1.10 and OS 1.2 with ease. What is your battery voltage with the starter running without load? Also, with a gloved hand try holding the starter cup and energive the starter for an instant. Should stay roughly around 10-11Vish with a healthy battery.



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 8:58:02 PM)

When you connect the starter directly to the battery (not using the supplied alligator clips) you should have a very hard time stopping the starter cone with a gloved hand. If you can stop it fairly easily check out the internal switch for pitting of the contacts. If you have pitting you can sometime file the contacts smooth again. If not replace the switch or buy another starter.

Just for your information I have a really cheap $12.00 5 year old Hobby Lobby standard starter and have no problems starting my Enya 120R. The guys at my field are starting 150 Saito with the Hobbico 180 on 12 volts.

John



bigtroutdog -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 10:21:12 PM)

When I hook up the starter directly to the battery, it turns the prop no problem.
When I use the power panel it doesn't. Obviously the popwer panel is the problem not the battery or starter. By the way, Ive been using 3 different 12v batteries. They all have a full charge 13.2v no load.



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 10:30:18 PM)

Change the wire going to the starter jacks on the panel to 16 gauge and use good quality banana plugs and your problem should be solved.

John



bigtroutdog -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/16/2005 11:46:24 PM)

Thanks John
I'll try that.
Mike



Nogyro -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/17/2005 12:32:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JNorton

Change the wire going to the starter jacks on the panel to 16 gauge and use good quality banana plugs and your problem should be solved.

John


Bingo John,

I was going to tell him the same thing about the wiring on the control panel. I ran into that years ago. I don't know why the manufactures put 18 or 20 gauge wire on the starter terminals.[:@] That's nonsense. It needs 16 gauge at the minimum, I think I soldered 12 or 14 gauge on mine......



JNorton -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/17/2005 12:55:26 AM)

My opinion is that the 18" or so of 16 gage multi strand wire has all the capacity needed while still allowing you to close the panel door without bending the battery terminals. :)



AS-EE -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/18/2005 1:38:29 AM)

A starter is an electric motor. Electric motors MUST have the current they demand for them when a mechanical load is placed upon their shaft. If this current demand cannot be met due to poor connections or a weak battery then the motor will stall. Think of the the current inrush to an electric motor when under a mechancial load as a governor on a piston engine. If the governor on a pistion engine (those set at a defined RPM speed) is defective then when a mechanical load is placed upon it, will result in a stall.

Here a few tips:

1) Make sure the wire gauge is thick enough such as the resistance does not impede the flow of the current too severely to the motor when the motor is under heavy mechanical loading.

2) Insure the battery can supply this heavy current demand. Batteries suited for this is the lead acid.

3) Finally, make sure all connections are good and tight with no corrosion.



I had an old Chevy gas hogging truck with a 350 Canadian block ( even had the capped off holes for the heater plugs!!) 4-bolt main in it. I noticed that my starter seemed to be under powered because it would struggle to turn over the engine. When I popped the hood, I found to my surprise that the small ground wire was crispy (the truck had 2 ground wires, the main one and the frame ground). I checked the connection with a meter and got a high resistance reading. So I tightened the connection of the big ground wire and the starter came a live when I turned over the ignition key.

Btw, I sold the old truck without keeping the engine that could have been turned into a performance monster and got me a 4-banger S-10[:o]



EloyM -> RE: 24 volt battery (11/19/2005 7:46:44 AM)

Cermark (www.cermark.com) has a 24 volt 7 amp/hour NiCd battery in a nice case complete w/internal overnight charger, current meter and circuit breaker. ACtually, it is available in both 12V and 24V versions, No. JP1214 and JP2407 respectively, $79.95 each.
Actually, NiCds are better than lead acid for starter motor power as the voltage will drop less under a heavy load.



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