RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (Full Version)

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omi -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/18/2006 6:19:49 AM)

Hi Guy's, just received replacement form my 4-in-1. If you all remember, one of the CHIP's had fallen off during the flight.

I have fitted the new 4 in 1 and it is working fine. But have a small problem after fitting the new 4-in 1, the Lama tilts on its tail during power up and then continues to drift back. I have to hold the forward stick a little foward to stop the drift, any suggestions..



flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/19/2006 6:19:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: omi
...
I have fitted the new 4 in 1 and it is working fine. But have a small problem after fitting the new 4-in 1, the Lama tilts on its tail during power up and then continues to drift back. I have to hold the forward stick a little foward to stop the drift, any suggestions..


2 possibilities:

1. Move the trim tab on the transmitter (corresponding to that forward stick) forward a little.

2. Check and adjust the Lama's center of gravity. It sounds like the center of gravity needs to be more forward.
Two ways to shift this center forward:
a. Try to move the battery more forward.
b. Detach the new 4-in-1 from the Lama and reattach it a little more forward than before.



sonicpelican -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/21/2006 2:37:13 PM)

Hi guys,

After 18 pretty much trouble free flights I now appear to have a problem with the 4in1. I'm using Mode 2 and when I move the right stick forward or backwards only the left servo operates, when I move it left or right only the right servo operates. It seems that the mixing has gone walk-about. The left stick seems to operate normally for the throttle and rudder. I have unplugged and plugged the battery back in several times to re-initiate the controller, the battery is fully charged and batteries in the transmitter are charged.

Any ideas??

Cheers,
Rod.



sonicpelican -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/21/2006 2:40:38 PM)

Guys,

In addition to my post above is the mixing done in the transmitter or the 4in1?

Rod.



flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/21/2006 8:00:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican

Hi guys,

After 18 pretty much trouble free flights I now appear to have a problem with the 4in1. I'm using Mode 2 and when I move the right stick forward or backwards only the left servo operates, when I move it left or right only the right servo operates. It seems that the mixing has gone walk-about. The left stick seems to operate normally for the throttle and rudder. I have unplugged and plugged the battery back in several times to re-initiate the controller, the battery is fully charged and batteries in the transmitter are charged.
...


You may not have a problem. Is cyclic (the right stick) behaving okay when flying?
Moving the right stick forward/backward should only operate one servo.
And moving the right stick left/right should only operate the other servo. That is what happens in mine (but I forget which servo should move when).
Yes, the servos are at a funny angle compared to when one thinks the cyclic should operate,
but that is due to something called something-like "gyroscopic precession" (mis-spelled, I am sure), which basically tells us
that when applying a force (like a servo moving) to a spinning object, the object does not react to the force
until a little later after the force is applied.
So for cyclic, the servo needs to apply its motion a bit earlier in the rotor rotation than when one wants the actual change to occur.

If it flies funny, the main problem that I can think of that may happen is that either a servo moves the wrong way,
or the wrong servo moves (in which case one might try switching the 2 servo connections to the 4-in-1 board.)

Mixing is done in the 4-in-1: The 4 stands for 1. receiver, 2. gyro, 3. mixing, 4. esc



TitaniumZX -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/21/2006 9:01:46 PM)

Mini,

My 4-in-1 looks normal like the one in these pictures.

[image]http://site.raidentech.net/lama3c.jpg[/image]

[image]http://site.raidentech.net/lama3d.jpg[/image]



sonicpelican -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/22/2006 7:10:53 AM)

Thanks Flying-Llama,

My understanding is that the gyroscopic effect is 90 degrees from the point of force in the direction of rotation. However the linkages that control the angle of the lower blades are offset from the from the blades by an arc of 90 degrees. This being the case, looking from the rear of the Lama with the swashplate tilted forward and the linkages being offset by 90 degrees, an upward force will be applied to the right side of the helicopter. Then, taking into account the gyroscopic effect the aircraft should move forward. Another way to look at this is if the swashplate is tilted forward the retreating blade will have a higher angle of attack and the advancing blade a lower angle of attack, thus the retreating blade will create more lift than the advancing blade creating additional lift on the right side of the heli. Then apply the gyroscopic effect rules and the aircraft should go forward.

Taking all that into account for the aircraft to move forward both servos must operate in an upwards direction to tilt the swashplate forward, both servos in a downwards direction for reverse and left up and right down and vice-versa for right and left.

Crikey, now my head hurts, all I really wanted to think about was a tasty curry seafood laksa.

Anyway, without any intervention, when I power on the Lama the swashplate is angled to the rear of the heli and slightly to the right, where previously it was dead horizontal. The cyclic control stick is centred and all trim tabs are centred as they were before the little possum decided to take long service leave.

I might take a look in the transmitter. Nine flights ago I decided to change from Mode 1 to Mode 2. I did some soldering in the transmitter to get it working properly on Mode 2 and maybe a stray piece of solder has shorted something.

Cheers,
Rod.



minirc963 -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/22/2006 2:53:46 PM)

thanks titaum. my friends is about twice as big as that. i have no idea why



flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/22/2006 7:22:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
My understanding is that the gyroscopic effect is 90 degrees from the point of force in the direction of rotation. However the linkages that control the angle of the lower blades are offset from the from the blades by an arc of 90 degrees. This being the case, looking from the rear of the Lama with the swashplate tilted forward and the linkages being offset by 90 degrees, an upward force will be applied to the right side of the helicopter. Then, taking into account the gyroscopic effect the aircraft should move forward. Another way to look at this is if the swashplate is tilted forward the retreating blade will have a higher angle of attack and the advancing blade a lower angle of attack, thus the retreating blade will create more lift than the advancing blade creating additional lift on the right side of the heli. Then apply the gyroscopic effect rules and the aircraft should go forward.
...


I have read that while the angle of the effect is 90 degrees in theory,
in practice the angle is not 90 degrees, but needs to be determined experimentally.
I do know that in both my Lama2 and Hirobo XRB lama, both servos are at about a 45 degree angle from either the helicopter's X or Y axis,
and that in both, when I move the cyclic stick forward/back only 1 servo moves,
and when I move the cyclic stick left/right only the other servo moves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
Crikey, now my head hurts, all I really wanted to think about was a tasty curry seafood laksa.
...


I agree, trying to think this through tends to result in a headache.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
Anyway, without any intervention, when I power on the Lama the swashplate is angled to the rear of the heli and slightly to the right, where previously it was dead horizontal. The cyclic control stick is centred and all trim tabs are centred as they were before the little possum decided to take long service leave.

I might take a look in the transmitter. Nine flights ago I decided to change from Mode 1 to Mode 2. I did some soldering in the transmitter to get it working properly on Mode 2 and maybe a stray piece of solder has shorted something.
...


Two other possible ways to try to fix things:

1. Move the left/right cyclic trim tab and forward/backward cyclic trim tab (each should just move 1 servo) to get the swashplate to be level after power-on, or (harder to do):

2. Turn the links between the swashplate and servos to get the swashplate to be level after power-on:
Each link should have a metal part (connected to the servo) and a plastic part (connected to a ball joint on the swashplate).
Disconnect one end of each link (the swashplate end is probably easier).
Then one should be able to turn the metal and plastic part relative to each other to lengthen or shorten the link as needed.




groan -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/22/2006 9:26:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: minirc963

thanks titaum. my friends is about twice as big as that. i have no idea why


FYI the newest version of the Esky Lama has a larger 4 in 1 and updated Rx Tx.

you can see it on thier site here
http://www.twf-sz.com/english/news1.asp?NewsId=114

Thsi is good news. and it sounds like your friend got the new version.



minirc963 -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/22/2006 10:17:39 PM)

ok thanks Groan



Zephyros -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/22/2006 10:30:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: minirc963

ok thanks Groan

Ya, I know, I sold my Lama V3 and ordered the new Blade CX2 from my myrcsupply.net for $159. With the new DSM2 transmitter, I could not pass it up. I keep my mini blade fuse mod that I will install on my new heli.




flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 4:45:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flying-llama

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
My understanding is that the gyroscopic effect is 90 degrees from the point of force in the direction of rotation. However the linkages that control the angle of the lower blades are offset from the from the blades by an arc of 90 degrees. This being the case, looking from the rear of the Lama with the swashplate tilted forward and the linkages being offset by 90 degrees, an upward force will be applied to the right side of the helicopter. Then, taking into account the gyroscopic effect the aircraft should move forward. Another way to look at this is if the swashplate is tilted forward the retreating blade will have a higher angle of attack and the advancing blade a lower angle of attack, thus the retreating blade will create more lift than the advancing blade creating additional lift on the right side of the heli. Then apply the gyroscopic effect rules and the aircraft should go forward.
...


I have read that while the angle of the effect is 90 degrees in theory,
in practice the angle is not 90 degrees, but needs to be determined experimentally.
I do know that in both my Lama2 and Hirobo XRB lama, both servos are at about a 45 degree angle from either the helicopter's X or Y axis,
and that in both, when I move the cyclic stick forward/back only 1 servo moves,
and when I move the cyclic stick left/right only the other servo moves.
...


By the way, hobbyjapan2000.com shows a copy of the Lama 2 instructions that came with my Lama2:
http://www.hobbyjapan2000.com/Lama2-Instru1.html

These instructions show multiple pictures where one of the 2 servos is marked as the elevator servo
and the other of the 2 servos is marked as the aileron servo.



sonicpelican -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 5:39:39 AM)

Thanks F-L. I'll do as you suggest and level up the swashplate, I'll do it by moving the servo horns on the servo spindle just to keep the linkages at the same length as much as possible. Then wack it up in the air and see what happens. It's interesting that previously both servo horns were at about 40 degrees above horizontal when the cyclic stick was centred, now the right one is at around 20 degrees below horizontal. Maybe I've managed to strip the servo spindle or gears or something.

Cheers,
Rod.



flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 6:31:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican

Thanks F-L. I'll do as you suggest and level up the swashplate, I'll do it by moving the servo horns on the servo spindle just to keep the linkages at the same length as much as possible.
...


Please do not rotate the servo horns while they are still connected to the servos:

1. The force of rotation may strip the servo gears

2. When you turn on the transmitter and connect the battery to the lama,
the servo horns will probably move back to where they were before you rotated them (this happens on my RC airplane).

If you remove (unscrew) the servo horns from the servos and then put the horns back onto the servos at a new setting,
that will roughly work (I do this on my RC airplane).
But it probably will not be exactly where you want it (the servo horns only fit at certain angles into the servos),
and you will need to still need to adjust the trim tabs or linkage lengths a little.



sonicpelican -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 3:56:57 PM)

F-L, I've got it sorted. You were totally correct with the movement of the servos. So much for my theory on gyroscopic effect, it may be dependent upon the rotating mass or speed of rotation. I moved both servo horns and then made minor adjustments with the connecting rods. I also moved the connecting rods out on the servo horns by one hole, things are more responsive now. Anyway it's almost all go again now except for a strange oscillation that causes the heli to hover around in a clockwise circle whilst maintaining its heading. I expect it's something out of plumb in the upper rotors. It's strange that all this has happened without any accidents or mishaps that I'm aware of. I have a sneeking suspicion the maid might have dropped it when she put it away, you just can't get good help these days.

It's interesting to note that there are two things I've learned from this excercise, apart from the gyroscopic bizzo. One, is that the two servos are not mixed in any way. They operate completely independently. So taking that into account the 4 in 1 must only mix the ESC's and the gyro. And 2, my old Multiplex Europa Sprint 36Mhz tx'er works fine with the Lama if you use the Multiplex rx'er crystal in the 4 in 1.

Thanks F-L.

Cheers,
Rod.



360 -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 4:58:57 PM)

Hi Guys

Finally got my Lama 3, took some time to get it set up and trimmed out. Using a fut 7chp with dual rates, expo, and timer set for lipo. Can fly without crashing now. Only broke off boom but was able to glue back on. Put fiber packing tape on upper blades, have not broke any yet. Flies like a dream, real controlable not like my Hummingbird Elite FP. Painting to MASH theme. Where can I get decals to dress up chopper?



RBCCONT -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 5:05:41 PM)

What swash and other settings do you use for the 7chp?



360 -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 5:24:02 PM)

RBCCONT

There's no need to use the Heli setting because Lama is pretty much fixed pitch. I just use the the standard airplane setting and then program what ever extras I want to use. The dual rates and expo just keep you from over controlling; if you have heavy thumbs like I do. Then I set the timer for 8 min thats controlled by the throttle, only counts down when throttle is above 0



flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (11/23/2006 5:54:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
I also moved the connecting rods out on the servo horns by one hole, things are more responsive now.
...


You are either a better pilot than me, or you have more space to fly in: if anything, the Lama is too fast for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
Anyway it's almost all go again now except for a strange oscillation that causes the heli to hover around in a clockwise circle whilst maintaining its heading. I expect it's something out of plumb in the upper rotors.
...


I get that motion when the upper and/or lower blade tracking is off on my Hirobo XRB.
If it is the upper rotors, you can fix this by adjusting the length of the link (by turning) between the upper rotors and the flybar (adjusting this way works better than trying to twist the rotor blades).
I have seen this adjustment shown in manuals for the Eflite Blade CX, Megatech Housefly and Horsefly, and Hirobo XRB Lama.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonicpelican
...
So taking that into account the 4 in 1 must only mix the ESC's and the gyro.
...


That is what the manuals that came with my Lama say.

Glad to hear things are going well.



flying-llama -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (12/9/2006 10:10:15 AM)

I am trying to use a Hitec Flash 5 transmitter on my Lama (about a year ago, so an older 4-in-1 unit).
I have been told that both are negative shift (72Mhz), so this should work.

My question is: what type of crystal should I get to put into the Lama's 4-in-1?

I have a spare Blue Arrow UM5 crystal (fits my GWS Naro receiver),
but this crystal's pins are too skinny to fit into the 4-in-1, and
the spacing between the pins are a little too small
(4mm vs. 5mm on the 4-in-1).

Related, but not about the Lama.
I would also like to use my Hitec transmitter with an Esky Honey Bee 2 FP (fixed pitch).
So a related question is what type of crystal should I get for the Honey Bee FP's 4-in-1 to change it to the Hitec transmitter's frequency?

Thanks.



kitea -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (12/13/2006 11:54:56 AM)

Hi Guys,

My Lama radio came in Mode 1, anyone here knows how I can switch to mode 2, is it a difficult to dismantle parts inside radio? I don't want to mess with the PCB board if possible. I'm having problem when using aileron that keeps hitting the throttle which is very sensitive.

kitea



ccpmheli -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (12/17/2006 6:16:04 AM)

Hobby-Lobby has the LamaV3 on sale for $119.00 right now.



blue02celi -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (12/24/2006 5:14:54 AM)

I just got my esky lama 2 delivered today and am having a blast trying to learn how to keep this thing steady. its taken a few falls, snapped a part of the skid (got a replacement but until its totally not useable its will probably stay on)
so heres my dumb question. it came with the training gear.... how do I get this on the heli? checked their website, but dont see anything showing how to get it on



ccpmheli -> RE: E-SKY LAMA 2 THREAD (12/24/2006 9:33:13 AM)

Try to center the training gear under the mainshaft. Use bread twisties to attach them to the skids.



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