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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 11/30/2005 7:26 PM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		Brent,

Looks I'll be doing the stringers/sheeting method. Basically, I have no idea on how to make those foam cheeks and I prefer stringers anyhow. Weight difference should be negligable if done correctly.

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 11/30/2005 7:39 PM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		I will be starting the wing soon and have measured up the EF Yak's wing. Best I can tell is that it uses a NACA0013 on the root and a NACA0014 on the tip. I think I'll copy this arrangement in my scratch design since I never, ever, manged to once tip stall or snap the EF Yak. Very stable wing indeed. I considered the eppler 169 but in the end decided that I wanted to be able to do some IMAC type stuff on this bird as well and the 169 is just to thick of an airfoil.

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 11/30/2005 9:34 PM   
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Status: offline 		I am planning on going with the stringers also. It should be a little lighter. To do the foam cheeks all you need to do is make templites like you would for cutting out a foam wing. You just need to compensate for the sheeting thickness when you make the end templates.

Brent

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/1/2005 12:39 AM   
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Status: offline 		Ha, that would make sense to me if I knew how to cut foam wing cores! Brent, I just purchased the compufoil3d program but am dissapointed that it doesn't have naca0013 or 0014. I didn't purchase the modification module and I was wondering if you were able to make a .cor of those to and send them to me?


OOOPS stupid me, I did buy the naca generator module....forget my request

Cheers,

John

< Message edited by SydDythers -- 12/1/2005 12:42 AM >

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/1/2005 1:11 AM   
Brent G



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Status: offline 		I have the modification module with mine. I just modify the airfoils to what ever spec I need.

Brent

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/1/2005 2:27 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hey brent, do you know how to export a 3D .dxf with not only the rib templates but also showing the stringers, LE spars etc...? Is it possible or can I only export the templates?

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/1/2005 12:05 PM   
Brent G



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I am not sure if that is possible. With the dxf module I can import the ribs and planform into my model cad software. If you give Eric Sanders a call at compufoil I am sure he will be able to answer your question. He has helped me several times in the past. Great customer service!!
I am waiting on some new cad software. I orderd design cad max 14. It looks like it should serve my needs. The price on e-bay was right, $16.99. If it doesn't work like I need at least I am not out a lot of money.

Brent



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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/1/2005 8:46 PM   
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Status: offline 		Put an email in to Chris and am waiting for a reply. I managed to make my own stringers. Here is the latest progress...starting to look like the innards of a yak!

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/2/2005 1:10 AM   
Brent G



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Status: offline 		I just got my design cad software. This should be fun. I am used to doing things 2D, I am finding out that 3D is totaly diferent. Any tips on where to start would be greatly appreciated. I tried using my other drawings to build the 3D model from, with no sucess. It looks like I am on the steep part of the learning curve once again.

Brent

O-buy the way. The plane looks great!

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/3/2005 1:07 AM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		Brent,

I just found 3 views on the net and then used the cad program to trace the profiles. Then I built up the airplane as you can see at the beginning of this thread. I ended up finding a copy of autocad for dummies in pdf format on the net and read through that for the first couple days. It seems you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum...I have no idea how to build a 2D set of plans!

Cheers,

John

Latest progress:

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< Message edited by SydDythers -- 12/3/2005 1:09 AM >

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/3/2005 2:31 AM   
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I am starting to get the hang of it. It sounds like I did the exact thing that you did. I found 3 views and traced them. It has been interesting learning how the 3d cad stuff works. This is my first wire frame drawing. I am just getting the feel for it. Next I will be going back and making a better to scale drawing.

Brent

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/3/2005 4:22 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hey guys...keep up the great work. Your progress is really interesting; especially for a Yak fan like me. I would love to build one...thanks again, Looper

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/3/2005 5:56 AM   
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Status: offline 		Brent...you're on your way! Acad is a beast to master and I can't think how it could get any harder than this program so if I can do it in Acad, then anyone can! It is truly 3D UNfriendly as far as I am concerned. My next project will probably be done in something other than Acad. I can say however that it forces you to be extremely precise (tolerances are within .0001 inches) and that is good.

Looper, thanks for the encouragement. This project has come a long way from when I first posted. It sure is time consuming though! I am hoping to have the cad done within a couple of weeks and have it built within a couple of months...although February is not exactly prime time for maidening an airplane in Canada I am considering getting a bunch of these kits laser cut and selling them if it flys well. I would probably provide the plans for free but am worried that I would suffer the same fate as Silver Eagle here on RCU...at least I think that was his handle...who had his katana plans sold on EBAY by somebody who ripped them off.

Cheers,

John

< Message edited by SydDythers -- 12/3/2005 6:20 AM >

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/4/2005 4:32 AM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		Into the nitty gritty stuff now...and I am finally getting comfortable with Autocad and may consider using it again in the future after all Here is a bit of detail work on the front of the airframe. Lots of lightening work and starting the interlocking part of the project (see the little interlocking tabs?) The way things are going, I doubt anyone could hand cut all the parts...just too much fine detail to use anything but a laser cutter.

This project is getting so crazy my laptop is struggling to keep up now so I've had to move to the desktop to work on it. When these files get complicated you need a pc with lots of memory!

Cheers,

John

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< Message edited by SydDythers -- 12/4/2005 4:36 AM >

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/4/2005 6:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		Wow...things are progressing quickly now even though it may not look as though they are. I will probably spend another day on the interlocking and lightening stuff. The wing is 90% done. I need to whip up some ribs for the tail feathers and finally lay down some stringers. All told, I'm looking at around 4 or 5 days work I think.

It's a bit late in the game but I was considering washout last nite and concluded it is probably a bad thing for aerobatic airplanes. It's great upright but when u go inverted you would be prone to snapping as the incidence gets reversed on the end of the wings. Good thing is that I didn't build in any washout but I did use a slightly thicker airfoil on the wingtips (naca0014) versus the root (naca0013) so that should give the wing reasonably good stability (I hope!) Anyone see any flaws in my reasoning?

Cheers,


John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/4/2005 2:00 PM   
Brent G



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Status: offline 		John

Looking great! I like all the lightning work you have done. Be carefull not to go too far. There will be a fair amount of vibration from the DA50 up front, and the higher frequency resonance will cuse fatigue over time. Most of my planes have used a slightly thicker tip. Not as thick as a Funtan though. I thickend it by about 4%. The results were good for 3D stability but I sacraficed a little crispness in performing snaps.

I don't put any washout in my wings for this type of airplane. It makes the plane harder to snap and perform precise snap entries. I would also be conceren about what it may do to the flight charteristic when you are transitioning from normal to post stalled 3D flight. The washout will make it so it takes the tips of the wing longer to stall.

I am going to be playing with my design today. I am hoping to get a little better feel for the 3D cad. Mabey I will be able to start on the real drawings soon.


Keep up the great work.

Brent

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/4/2005 5:56 PM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		I am definitely trying not to go too overboard with lightening up the frame. This model will be built to fly and not crashed so compared to some arfs out there it may not be robust if you try a horizontal landing . But, because I am not shelling out $650 for an arf, this will be a bit more expendable. Having said that, I did mention before that I am using the EF for a bit design inspiration and am not lightening the airframe any more than the EF, and it is an really strong airplane. I think mine will be stronger with about the same weight or maybe a shade less. Nevertheless, even if it comes in at 16.5 lbs it will still be way lighter than just about any other Yak arf you can find out there.

Cheers,

John

< Message edited by SydDythers -- 12/4/2005 5:57 PM >

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/5/2005 1:00 AM   
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Status: offline 		Someone emailed me an interesting question about this project today and I thought I'd share my response. They are wondering whether the cowls from the KMP or EF Yaks would fit on my version. The answer was a NO first but Maybe second.

quote:



Question:

I just read that you might need cowls for your Yak project. I am thinking about making a mold. I have one of the KMP reject planes now. Is your cowl going to be the same as KMP and EF? If so maybe I will order a new cowl and do a mold.

Response:

Not sure if the EF and KMP cowls are the same diameter. My EF cowl however has a diameter of 10.325" (10 3/8) and an overall length of 11 3/8". I've measured the diameter of the front former of my CAD Yak at 10.625 (10 5/8) inches and the length at 11 1/16. So by pure luck they are very very close and I may consider adjusting my model so that those cowls may be utilized...I've got to figure out how much time that would take and also see if others would be interested in that. I've actually got an extra brand new EF cowl that I could use... Could you measure the KMP cowl's diameter?

If I don't readjust the model to fit those cowls, making a plug for one that fits would be very easy. I have made templates that are space 1" apart. All that is needed is some 1" sandable foam between each template and, voila, you have a plug...might actually be easier and cheaper than trying to make one from an existing vendor.


Further to this, I would think that given the relative scarcity of those two models, TOC/Aviation Yak cowl's would be a better option since there should be an abundant supply of them...anyone have those measurements? If we're lucky, all three are the same. If they are really close then I could make two or three different plans to accomodate them but that would take a fair bit of time. Regardless, the canopy/hatch is to be made out of fiberglass similar to how I originally intended to construct a cowl plug and if you do one, you may as well do the other. However, I may go ahead an construct a built up/wood version of the canopy too.

What do you all think is the best route to take on the cowl?

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/5/2005 1:23 AM   
Brent G



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I am in the same situation with my cowl. I am not sure if I will make a new mold for the yak or not. I need to get my hands on a QQ yak cowl (small yak) and measure it to see if I will be able to fit my 26cc mvvs gasser in it. I am in luck though with the larger 50cc. I have a friend that is waiting for an aero-tec yak to come in. He is going to let me make a mold from his cowl. Another option would be to look at a radial cowl from fiberglass speialties. They don't have any Yak cowls listed but a guy could possibly take a plain radial cowl and add louvers to it. I am all for not having to make a new plug if I don't have to.

Brent

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/5/2005 2:00 AM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		Well, I decided to change my yak to fit the EF cowl. It only took about 45 mins actually. Also, I changed the templates to match if anyone wants to make their own...easy enough! Brent, I can't really see how borrowing another cowl to make a plug will necessarily work all that great since they are kind of flimsy to begin with and don't hold their shape all that well?

Cheers,

John

< Message edited by SydDythers -- 12/5/2005 2:01 AM >

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/5/2005 2:57 AM   
Brent G



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I have done it before. It works great. All you have to do is brace up the inside a little.

Brent


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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/6/2005 1:24 AM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		Just a quick update,

I've had to redo a few of the parts for this project. As the drawings come together, even the best planning can go awry. Good news is that I've almost completed all the necessary adjustments. Late last night I came up with a bit of neat idea which may have been tried before but I have certainly never seen it....

Basically the idea is about being able to transport large airframes. My Touareg is barely big enough to transport my EF Yak and BME Edge. When I load it in there, invariably, some part of the tail feathers gets bumped or cracked. I am therefore thinking about making part of the fuse removable. I want to saw the airplane in half somewhere behind the canopy and then run two 0.5" carbon tubes lengthwise, one at the top and one at the bottom to slide the fuse together and add strength...basically like a wing tube. The whole thing would be secured easily with 3 or 4 nylon screws. You European fellas might like this idea since you all drive those tiny autos! If I go ahead and build it into the design, I'll make it optional on the plans.

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/6/2005 1:48 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SydDythers

Basically the idea is about being able to transport large airframes. My Touareg is barely big enough to transport my EF Yak and BME Edge. When I load it in there, invariably, some part of the tail feathers gets bumped or cracked. I am therefore thinking about making part of the fuse removable. I want to saw the airplane in half somewhere behind the canopy and then run two 0.5" carbon tubes lengthwise, one at the top and one at the bottom to slide the fuse together and add strength...basically like a wing tube. The whole thing would be secured easily with 3 or 4 nylon screws. You European fellas might like this idea since you all drive those tiny autos! If I go ahead and build it into the design, I'll make it optional on the plans.

Cheers,

John


Aero-works used to use 2 part fuses. You might want to look into it. Personally, I like a one piece fuse since it's stronger and lighter. Keep up the good work.


Woops

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/6/2005 4:39 AM   
SydDythers



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Status: offline 		I thought about the added weight but concluded it would be very small...maybe 3 or 4 ounces max. Anyway, it can't hurt to design it in at least...I can always ignore it when building if I change my mind.

Cheers,

John

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RE: Rollin' my own 50CC Yak 54 - 12/6/2005 1:28 PM   
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Status: offline 		Once you get your plans done i would love to have a set

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