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AMA - 11/18/2002 11:03:09 AM   
Dave Bowles


 

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		And thats exactly why ROAR , NORRICA and the sport of R/C racing will never have the growth like Model Aviation has.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 51

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/19/2002 3:38:08 AM   
wildthng


 

Posts: 178
Joined: 2/4/2002
From: Land o'lakes, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I have been flying models since i was nine(I,m 40 now).1st line control then in 1988 my 1st rc plane.I never paid much attention to the ama stuff that came with some of them old kits but when i started in RC they said i had to buy it to fly at the field so i did. The magizine is ok but if i didn,t need it to fly at the local field i would pretty much forget the ama even exists.Also most new flyers would never hear about the ama if they didn,t have to buy it and the orgainization would probably no longer exist for very long.Don,t get me wrong i injoy being part of the ama because it gets me alot of info on competitions,ect and has guidlines that i,m very happy about when i go to fly at another clubs field because it gives me less chance of getting shot down or injured.I,m happy the insurance forces people to buy or not fly because it forces alot of people who are not so carfull to follow a few simple rules that help keep us safe.If people did not have to buy it there would be more danger at the field and less fields to fly in because land owners would not let you fly there if you don,t prove insurance(most don't relize that the insurance is pretty worthless but it gets you thrue the door and makes them think there butt is covered)

_____________________________

some say i'm nuts but i really am.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 52

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/19/2002 4:32:25 AM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Wildthing,
You said a mouthful.

Those simple safety rules do define the importance of the AMA to Frank Flightpack (Joe moved over to boats). As you said, the insurance is just to get you in the door with the land owner. It has value, but not as much as the value of the safety code that MOST folks follow.

Too bad some would rather throw rocks than help build more of the same value in our hobby and organization.

Too bad some AMA officials refuse to see that others are committed to the same goals.

Jim Branaum

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 53

I voted yes - 11/21/2002 3:21:57 AM   
_jon_


 

Posts: 93
Joined: 5/9/2002
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I am the AMA! So are you, if you carry a current AMA card. Make the best of it.

Jon

ps. If you have a hard time reading through the MA magazine, set it in your "reading room" for a month or 2, you'll read almost every bit of it then.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 54

Ama insurance - 11/22/2002 7:39:02 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1931
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Reasons that I joined the ama

**1. The first and primary reason is that my club required insurance (specifically ama) to fly at my local field.

**2. Without ama insurance (specifically) I wouldn't be invited to fly at other flying clubs.

**3. To cover me in case of accident or injury


Things I would like to see the ama change/accomplish (remember this is my wish list)

**1. Reduce the yearly dues amount. I might be wrong but I think that this principle has proven itself, ie mcdonalds etc. If money gets tight (which usually indicated that people have a little less extra money to spend), you don't raise the prices on everything, I think this turns people away quicker than anything, I think you should cut the rates as much as possible to get more people involved which in turn creates revenue in other areas, ie, I know some people that join to support the rc hobby but they don't fly. Now they are considering not paying the yearly dues as it's getting a little expensive for not being a pilot, they enjoy watching and helping but don't need the insurance because they're not flying. So ama has gained $8 per year per member but how many $58 per year members have stopped renewing?

**2. Sell the ama headquarters at muncie and move the rc headquarters somewhere more favorable for promoting/flying/events all year round (after all, you wouldn't put the headquarters for snow skiing in the Caribbean would you?)

**3. Reduce the amount for the lifetime membership. (I'm 40 now, so If I fly until I'm 65 at the current dues rate that is $1450, $50 cheaper than the lifetime membership) Maybe the lifetime membership rate should be proportional, Maybe 1/2 price of the total membership fee to the age of 65, ie if you are 20 then $1305, 30 then $1015, 40 then $754, 50 -- $435, 60 -- $145. Yes, I'm sure that the ama dues will go up in the years leading up to the age of 65 but you're also taking the chance that the ama will be around until that time also.

**4. Maybe develop 'seasonal' insurance. I have a motorcycle and the insurance industry recognizes that I probably wont drive it all year round. I can buy the insurance for the bike for 6 or even a 3 month increment. If you live in florida a yearly policy is a deal, alaska on the other hand........




Things I'm afraid will happen to the rc industry

**1. It will get to expensive for the average individual, much like full scale aviation. If you're a teen first interested in getting into the hobby (that is who we want to expose to rc aviation right?) The first thing he/she looks at is insurance, $58, then club membership $40, then the trainer plane, engine and radio. Thundertiger has the combo for $350, so now we are up to $448. Now how often will they fly? Some are extremely dedicated, most I would guess are sparse and very seasonal. They have to rely on transportation to the field, also most teens have other 'activities' that compete for their time, ie opposite sex, sports, etc. For a teen, that knows the chances of wrecking and loosing the investment, this is quite a high amount. I think that we are getting close to pricing 'newbies' out of the hobby. Now x-box, playstation 2, etc you can get into for $299 or less and you don't have to worry about loosing your money in a crash, you just hit reset, lol. Is it any wonder that most are more interested in video games, especially in seasonal climates that the flying season is usually only a few months out of the year.

**2. Sound requirements/lack of flying areas severely crippling the rc industry.


Just my thoughts :^)

Jon

_____________________________

xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2HxRNgkjpQ

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 55

Re: Ama insurance - 11/22/2002 8:08:28 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonkoppisch


Things I would like to see the ama change/accomplish (remember this is my wish list)


**3. Reduce the amount for the lifetime membership. (I'm 40 now, so If I fly until I'm 65 at the current dues rate that is $1450, $50 cheaper than the lifetime membership) Maybe the lifetime membership rate should be proportional, Maybe 1/2 price of the total membership fee to the age of 65, ie if you are 20 then $1305, 30 then $1015, 40 then $754, 50 -- $435, 60 -- $145. Yes, I'm sure that the ama dues will go up in the years leading up to the age of 65 but you're also taking the chance that the ama will be around until that time also.

:^)

Jon [/QUOTE]

So, do you propose refunds for those who may have recently paid the higher rate?

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 56

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 8:21:34 PM   
fliers1



Posts: 534
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Many times I hear that if AMA dues were cheaper, more people would join, but it appears that this theory doesn't hold water.
What I mean is there has never been more than 170,000 AMA members even though AMA offered Sign 3 and Fly Free Ambassador program where for every 3 adult members a current member signs up, he will receive another free one year membership(now $58). This probram has been around for a couple of years now, but it hasn't brought in the over 30,000 that AMA president Dave Brown projected by now.

Then there was the $1.00 junior membership, which only brought in reportedly 20,000. This has been around for a few years now.
My point is that one will have to look elsewhere to find out why our numbers aren't where they should be. Imagine if everyone signed up just one new member, that would mean there would be a healthy 340,000 members on the books. If there were that many, perhaps everyone's dues would decrease.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 57

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 8:25:57 PM   
P-51B



Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by flyinrog
Heck no! wouldnt join if I didnt have to.. as I have stated in other posts the AMA is a union and has out lived its usefulness. you have to pay to play.......and if you actually like the mag, well, they make toilet paper with writing on it now thats almost as boring......who is it who thinks there homeowners covers their activity 20 miles away with a powered flying vehicle?

Is there one person who pays dues to run a radio controlled car other than a sanctioned event?

my 2 cents says , everybody stop paying for a year and then see how the AMA reacts, like if I dont want your mag, I'm not paying for it, instead of 58 .. I'll pay 38, I dont think thats unreasonable do you?
Rog [/QUOTE]

AMA like a UNION??? What were you thinking when you typed that nonsense. The AMA is no more of a UNION than your local golf or fitness club. If you want to use AMA facilities and have the benefit of their insurance of course you have to pay. But, if you want to fly on your own property and liability is not a concern for you, you don't "have to pay to play."

A few more contrasts;

Union = involuntary support of an organization that provides no benefit.

AMA = VOLUNTARY support of an organization that supports aviation modeling, and provides a few benefits such as secondary insurance.

Union = must join in order to hold a specific type of job.

AMA = Completely OPTIONAL!

AMA = $58.00 per YEAR

Round of golf = $50.00++per ROUND (no magazine or insurance provided if your ball hits someone)

Local health club $90.00 per MONTH

Piece of mind that everyone is flying by the same set of AMA safety rules = PRICELESS.

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 58

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 8:47:01 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1931
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Many times I hear that if AMA dues were cheaper, more people would join, but it appears that this theory doesn't hold water. [/QUOTE]

Then to the support of this, the ama should raise dues even higher as that would bring in more members. I know from personal experience that the raising of the dues has eliminated several of our non flying and flying club members. I wounder how many members have let there membership expire for one reason or another without renewing. Maybe new people are coming in but people that have been in the hobby for a few years are getting out. That could account for some of the off #'s.

[QUOTE]Then there was the $1.00 junior membership, which only brought in reportedly 20,000. This has been around for a few years now. [/QUOTE]

I myself have took advantange of this. My son is 11 and he's been flying for a couple of years now. He does although only come out a few times a year. If his dues were $58 he'd be doing some extra chores to pay that puppy off for sure :^) I think that this also only applies if someone else in the house is paying the full amount also?

[QUOTE]So, do you propose refunds for those who may have recently paid the higher rate?[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't know. Maybe there's some other kind of benefit that can be given the one that have already paid for the lifetime membership. All I know is by weighing out what the yearly rate is vs the lifetime membership price, I'm in no hurry to purchase it. I know that the dues are going to continue to rise but who's to say that the ama will still be around when I'm 50 like enron etc, or that I'm still going to be able and want to fly then. I think if it was more affordable that more people would purchase it. I definately would if it would come to the rate that I wished for :^)

_____________________________

xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2HxRNgkjpQ

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 59

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 9:07:12 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7718
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		People quit the AMA over raising the fee $8? Wouldn't you have to quit the hobby? Or fly out of some ragged farm field?

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 60

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 9:28:20 PM   
jonkoppisch



Posts: 1931
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]People quit the AMA over raising the fee $8[/QUOTE]

Once again I'm talking about the not so devoted/average/once in a while flyiers which in this area makes up most of the rc community. Our club is small, around 60 members. Out of the 60 there are 5 fliers that are consistant in coming out (I'm one of these, way to addicted, I even bought a house next to the field :^) just about every nice weekend. There's probably another 8 that I see 2 times a month for the 4 summer months then they hibernate. the other 51 I see about 2 times a year.
I'm not referring to the people with 4 40% planes in their 30' trailer behind the 50' motor home. The ama/club will loose more by alienating the 51 people (51x$58=$2958) than catering to the 9 consistant/semi consistant people (9x$58=$522). The 5 constant fliers are pretty much a lock, ie I'll probably get ama even if it goes up to $100 per year although I'll be looking much more serious at the lifetime membership then, lol. It's the other's that are part time that really don't have that much invested that will probably get out of the hobby.

Once again, this is just my opinion. It really doesn't mean much and definately isn't worth arguing over. I'm just referring to what I've seen the last few years locally, but then I'm a little cross eyed, just ask anyone that's seen me fly, lol. Jon

< Message edited by jonkoppisch -- Nov 22 2002 4:35PM >

_____________________________

xps and a flash = NO MORE FLASH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2HxRNgkjpQ

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 61

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 9:30:47 PM   
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by J_R
Tailskid

A lot of that attitude comes from lack of knowledge and information. I'm the first one to say that the insurance cost is $10 per year per member. That is only part of the picture. It does not include administering the program or keeping track of the members.


I am sorry, but I was reading this thread and noticed your numbers and realized an error in that first paragraph. When I was in Toledo last spring, Dave Brown accosted me to discuss our several e-mails about the dues increase. He indicated that the my theory about about the Self Insured Reserve portion of the insurance was was correct. I think the $10 or $12 dollar figure you are quoting is only for the purchased reinsurance.

Now what the heck did I just say? Well when you have a chargeable accident in your car (it is your fault) there is a deductible that you get to pay when the vehicle is repaired. The SIR portion of the insurance cost is the AMA's "deductible". It also seems to be going up along with the cost of the insurance from Royal and the re insurers.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 62

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 10:04:05 PM   
fliers1



Posts: 534
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonkoppisch


Once again I'm talking about the not so devoted/average/once in a while flyiers which in this area makes up most of the rc community. Our club is small, around 60 members. Out of the 60 there are 5 fliers that are consistant in coming out (I'm one of these, way to addicted, I even bought a house next to the field :^) just about every nice weekend. There's probably another 8 that I see 2 times a month for the 4 summer months then they hibernate. the other 51 I see about 2 times a year.
I'm not referring to the people with 4 40% planes in their 30' trailer behind the 50' motor home. The ama/club will loose more by alienating the 51 people (51x$58=$2958) than catering to the 9 consistant/semi consistant people (9x$58=$522). The 5 constant fliers are pretty much a lock, ie I'll probably get ama even if it goes up to $100 per year although I'll be looking much more serious at the lifetime membership then, lol. It's the other's that are part time that really don't have that much invested that will probably get out of the hobby.

Once again, this is just my opinion. It really doesn't mean much and definately isn't worth arguing over. I'm just referring to what I've seen the last few years locally, but then I'm a little cross eyed, just ask anyone that's seen me fly, lol. Jon [/QUOTE]

Jon,
Yep, you definitely have a point there. I belong to 2 clubs and there are 4 others in the area and for the most part, these clubs are deserted most of the flying season. I can understand how those who really never learned how to fly might be hanging on year after year in the frustration of hoping to learn some day, and how any dues increase would be the final straw which gave them reason to quit. On the other hand, for those who know how to fly and are addicted to the hobby; and have to have AMA insurance to fly, even if they had to take a loan, they might complain about a dues increase, but would somehow find the money even if annual dues increased to $100 or more.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 63

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/22/2002 11:10:38 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7718
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonkoppisch


I'm not referring to the people with 4 40% planes in their 30' trailer behind the 50' motor home. [/QUOTE]

Obviously these people have their priorities in order!

Hmm. Maybe I should sell my house and buy a big moble home with a workshop behind it.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 64

Would You Still Join the AMA if They Did NOT Provide In... - 11/23/2002 6:20:27 AM   
57af82-RCU


 

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/15/2002
From: Merrill, Wi (Lincoln Cty)
Status: offline 		I also flew models back in the 27mhz days. Joined AMA and been with them ever since. How did most of the no votes get involved in R/C? Just about every off shoot at one time or another branched out of the AMA and not a whole lot of them survived. In this hobby you just have to have a catalyst and I see nothing better. I heard ****ing on every dues increase. Like it will break anybody to pay $48 a year thats in R/C, FF, or CL models. Come on you no votes, get it together, give us a plan and a organization, of course NO dues.

(in reply to Crashem)
       Post #: 65